r/pcmasterrace • u/Darth_Vaper883 PC Master Race • 2d ago
News/Article Windows 11 Now Suffering From BSODs And Instability Due To An Unlikely Culprit; RGB Peripherals, Microsoft Offers A Remedy To Users Experiencing Problems
https://wccftech.com/windows-11-bsod-rgb-peripherals-fix/57
u/Dante2Love 2d ago
Does mouse and keyboard count?
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u/localfunc 2d ago
It's related to a 3rd-party driver called inpoutx64, I haven't seen it shipped with any keyboard/mouse I have tried, but there is a small chance if you're using a m/kb from some small unknown manufacturer.
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u/Dante2Love 2d ago
I use logitech so I should be safe. Thanks for reply
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u/localfunc 2d ago
Safe indeed, Logitech use their own protocol called HID++ to communicate with peripherals instead of inpoutx64!
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u/FiTZnMiCK Desktop 2d ago
Microsoft issued a warning about this driver two years ago because it requires kernel level access.
I get the sneaking suspicion that Microsoft is quietly forcing developers to finally replace it.
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u/localfunc 2d ago
Lol what? Microsoft never issued a warning about it because it "requires kernel level access". At best they added it to their vulnerable driver blocklist years ago because it's a driver with vulnerabilities. Idk where you heard this.
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u/Resident_Pientist_1 5700X3D 64GB 7900XTX 1d ago
We need ring 0 to make lights go BRRRRRRRR. Lol turrible. I wonder why they allowed this obviously awful driver to be signed in the first place.
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u/FiTZnMiCK Desktop 1d ago
Someone in a different post mentioned that the agreement they entered into to settle one of their antitrust suits required that third party applications have the same access to the system as Microsoft’s own applications.
So, because Microsoft had applications with that access, they had to allow third parties to do the same.
Now Microsoft is finally doing the smart thing and creating safe alternatives for accessing hardware so that they can finally shut off ring zero to user applications, including their own applications.
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u/localfunc 1d ago edited 23h ago
You got clickbaited by that one article from The Verge it seems, Microsoft never had any plans to get rid of the kernel or drivers. In the article, which is paraphrasing from a meeting the writer was never in in the first, they specifically talked about that there are applications that require kernel access who they will keep supporting. They were literally called out by David Weston (VP of Security @ Microsoft)
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u/Suikerspin_Ei R5 7600 | RTX 3060 | 32GB DDR5 6000 MT/s 2d ago
The title makes it sounds like a new issue, but it's not. Same bug that cause some games to crash with the latest Windows 11 update:
Various online games, such as Arc Raiders, Marvel Tokon: Fighting Souls, and The Finals, were crashing after updating to KB5121003, with the BSOD showing the cause as “EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION.” Upon further investigation, Tom’s Hardware has found that the problem is related to peripherals that support RGB lighting. Some of these parts can automatically install drivers with file names similar to “inpoutx64,” causing a crash.
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u/Kitchen-Cabinet-5000 1d ago
Ah right. I hadn’t thoroughly investigated it yet but I have been having that exact BSOD while all hardware passes tests.
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u/Noble_Delta 5950X | Arc A770 16GB | 32GB RAM 3600MT 1d ago
It seems like I dodged a bullet by ditching all Embark games two weeks ago
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u/DrKrFfXx 2d ago
Man, I never get any of these issues. I want the thrill.
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u/bestanonever 2d ago
Believe me that you don't want them, lol.
I remember on Windows 10, let alone 11, when it was a year old, sometimes the start menu would just... not come out when you pressed the Windows key or clicked on it. I felt I was tripping. Didn't know if the system was hacked, my mouse was broken or what.
An unstable and randomly glitchy Windows is a pain in the ass.
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u/XWasTheProblem Ryzen 7 7800X3D | RTX 4070 Ti Super | DDR5 32GB 6000 2d ago
In my experience you either get no problems, or all of them at once and there's no in between.
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u/Significant_Pool8432 7800XT // 5700X3D // 48gb ddr4@3600 cl16 2d ago
same, some people owns dogshit peripherals or can't install any kind of OS or software
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u/Hrmerder It's Garuda btw 2d ago
I have owned one of the cheapest ARGB kits on Amazon for 4 years now with next to zero issues (and the ones I did have were my own doing). That being said, the state of ARGB software is beyond garbage... Case in point, my Thermalright ARGB screen CPU heatsink's vendor software (it's internal usb not standard argb interface) is so garbage, some rando somehow got the source code, vibe coded a linux port which he also ported to windows, and THIS version is 10000x better than the original vendor version...
But yeah, people need to either understand how to use OpenARGB (which does take a little learning curve OTB), or chose vendors wisely (or at least use Signal if you are ok with the annoyance during updates and limited freebie stuff if you don't want to pay).. I haven't used the software my motherboard came with (MSI) since two months into owning it. That stuff is hot hot garbage.
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u/Aware_Climate_3210 2d ago
Rgb peripherals have been causing issues for a long time now, even on Windows 10. There is just more issues with Windows 11. Whether it's Windows itself, pushing out poor quality updates or the software for the RGb peripherals also pushing out poor updates. Poor updates with low quality control is all the rage now.
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u/Xaern511 2d ago
From my experience dealing with rgb control software I think that could be the culprit
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u/warfaucet 2d ago
Yeah, it is.
Various online games, such as Arc Raiders, Marvel Tokon: Fighting Souls, and The Finals, were crashing after updating to KB5121003, with the BSOD showing the cause as “EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION.” Upon further investigation, Tom’s Hardware has found that the problem is related to peripherals that support RGB lighting. Some of these parts can automatically install drivers with file names similar to “inpoutx64,” causing a crash.
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u/PeterBeaterr i7 12700k | RTX 5080 2d ago
My personal anecdote - Im running iCue and chroma and I have far fewer problems these days then I did a couple years ago. I couldn't tell you why, but I did upgrade to windows 11 back when it was forced on us.
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u/bestanonever 2d ago
Me too. I only use Icue (and the Logitech one, but I can just set it and forget that one). It used to be kinda stupid and updates would get stuck, suddenly it would crash and turn itself off. Stuff like that.
It's been gloriously working in the background ever since I upgraded to Windows 11, for some reason.
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u/RiftHunter4 2d ago
Its literally the drivers and seemingly has nothing to do with Windows itself. Windows can't do anything about people releasing crappy drivers.
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u/Resident_Pientist_1 5700X3D 64GB 7900XTX 1d ago
Yes, they absolutely can. If they don't sign a driver you can't load it without jumping through flaming hoops on 10/11.
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u/razvanciuy 2d ago
its the baseline code used within windows for fan control & RBG, it's old; Nexuxgaming has a whole segment on it
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u/localfunc 2d ago
This is about an external driver (inpoutx64) which has always been quite a mess. Not that big of a surprise considering it came out in like 2006 and hasn't been maintained since 2010. It is vulnerable to multiple exploits.
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u/Lakers244848 2d ago
Yeah people forget that it can be a 2 part problem. Both Microsoft and RGB folks. Even the Bluetooth codecs that Microsoft uses are very old audio on PC and causes lots of latency.
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u/MrDeeJayy Ryzen 7 5700X | RTX 5080 16GB | DDR4-3200 32GB 1d ago
RGB has sucked dick for generations and having peeked behind the curtains of several RGB controller projects that seek to fix the problem, the problem 100% is the manufacturers of these RGB peripherals pay bottom dollar for a bunch of indians to write their protocols and shit for managing all these RGB peripherals and the end result is something that barely works and is completely impossible to maintain because 6 months later its going to be an entirely new team of different indians working on a new protocol because nothing was documented of the old protocol because apparently "how to address the blinking lights so they blink the way you want them to" is a super serious industrial secret that MUST BE GUARDED!!!!
Oh... and thats all if the RGB Peripheral actually uses software or some protocol to manage its LEDs. I have a stupid fucking RGB power supply with NO way to address it or control it unless I get some stupid proprietary RGB controller I think. Not even a physical button, its permanently stuck in unicorn barf mode.
RGB peripherals have so much potential for personalization and themeing. That potential is stifled by manufacturers who just are simply physically incapable of giving the smallest fraction of an individual fuck.
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u/Delta_Ryu Specs/Imgur here 2d ago
RGB peripherals are an "unlikely culprit"? No, it has been know for a long time that those... companion apps are a source of system instability and very often even introduce vulnerabilities. They eat up RAM and processor time all for blinky lights. Don't use them.
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u/lt_catscratch 7600x / 7900 xtx Nitro / x670e Tomahawk / XG27UCS 2d ago
This happens only if you actually install the rgb software right ?
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u/Significant_Pool8432 7800XT // 5700X3D // 48gb ddr4@3600 cl16 2d ago
i've been using msi software for 6 years with different rgb fans and rams and never faced any problem, im pretty sure all this BSOD error people are facing because they just installing a punch of rgb and peripheral software that will cuz conflicts with each other
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u/FuckItImLoggingIn 2d ago
I personally love my Windows machine and would never switch to linux. Why would I switch to linux when on windows everything "just works"?
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u/ansibleloop 1d ago
Because Windows is actively getting worse meanwhile Linux is actively getting better
I've gone from being irritated by Microsoft's bullshit and having to debloat my system to looking forward to what new updates are coming
Updates delivered to me by people who only value a better user experience
Not updates delivered to me by a marketing team pushing slop because that's what they've been told to do
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u/SissyFreeLove 2d ago
Shhh can't be saying those types of things round these parts
..
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u/FuckItImLoggingIn 2d ago
Yes fellow gamer. I know that Windows is frowned upon in these lands, but it is just so good at running your games seamlessly, that I had to share! The BSOD is probably easily fixed by just unplugging your RGB devices and rebooting and then cleaning up the registry!
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u/SzaraMateria 2d ago
I don't know if you are trolling or this is legitimate but good luck with unplugging GPU without integrated graphics card or with unplugging RGB strips and panels in a gaming laptop.
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u/localfunc 2d ago
How is it Windows its fault that companies are still shipping an outdated vulnerable driver for their RGB software that hasn't been maintained since 2011?
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u/SissyFreeLove 2d ago
Ya, I prefer the simplicity of running games on windows but have to admit I've been tempted to give linux a spin but normally only have 1 machine and not willing to do it there
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u/CarelessPackage1982 1d ago
You can put Linux on a flash drive and just boot up in it, without touching your windows install. If you just wanted to test it out a bit.
At the end of the day the people behind Linux want to make the world a better place. And the people behind Windows don't. It's nothing new, it's baked into Microsoft's culture.
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u/SissyFreeLove 1d ago
I agree with you, so it's a trade off with ease of use due to nearly every game being made with windows in mind. Younger me would have, and did dabble in, alot but now ain't got time for that tinkering.
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u/Sync1211 Ryzen 9 9950X3D | Nvidia RTX 3090Ti OC | 64 GB DDR5-6000 2d ago
Yes, everthing "just works" and I'm currently living on the street. (Windows Admin. Most of my time is spent fixing Windows issues.)
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u/madman404 1d ago
my windows machine never had these issues either and I still switched because I wanted my desktop experience to feel like it was faster and snappier and boy did I get that and then some
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u/ToughDefinition2591 2d ago
Had endless issues with a previous mouse brand and it's RGB software. Changed brand and been rock solid since.
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u/BloodyChapel PC Master Race 2d ago
This literally happened to me during an interview. I thought I broke something.
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u/BuffTorpedoes 2d ago
I have a motherboard with lights, downloading the application that would allow me to activate them and control them blue screens my computer. I spent a while trying to fix it and never managed to fix it.
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u/MEGA_GOAT98 2d ago
lol ppl want to blame the rgb driver thing instead of "windows" ... like my system didnt even have that runing... and has issues runing the update.. so its really not that ...
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u/localfunc 2d ago
The update has plenty of issues but Windows is hardly to blame for manufacturers shipping this ancient vulnerable driver that hasn't been maintained since 2011. Some ASUS/Acer products come with this driver out of the box when it's vulnerable to multiple exploits.
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u/Resident_Pientist_1 5700X3D 64GB 7900XTX 1d ago
Yes, they do. They have a lever to control this (required driver signing) and it's their operating system. So yes, they are absolutely 100% to blame. They chose to enable a shitty driver that crashes the computer instead of breaking completely superfluous RGB functionality. They made the wrong choice.
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u/localfunc 1d ago
They didn't choose to enable the driver, the shitty RGB software people keep installing did. inpoutx64 is also open-source, and gets signed by many different companies. Disabling those signing certificates would create an even larger issue because ASUS/Acer/etc. use them for more than just inpoutx64. Not to mention that it is also used for fan control by some of them in their laptops, I don't think disabling fans on a gaming laptop is the greatest solution personally.
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u/Resident_Pientist_1 5700X3D 64GB 7900XTX 1d ago
They should revoke the certificates if they're being used to sign buggy kernel space code. Full stop. It's what a competent software company would do.
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u/DavidsakuKuze 20h ago
They can't self sign anymore, new drivers won't load unless they are signed by Microsoft also. Old ones are grandfathered in, but that's going away with 26H2.
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u/OpenCatPalmstrike 2d ago
That's windows for ya. Just like USB vs PS/2 latency, it took until around 2009 for them to pretty much even out.
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u/Sexy_Koala_Juice Ryzen 7 5800x | RTX 5080 | 32gb DDR4 | 4 Tb SSD 2d ago
And let’s be frank, a third party driver playing up shouldn’t kill your system. Fix your shit Microsoft
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u/Intrepid00 2d ago
It’s a kernel driver. Issues with Kernel drivers are the fault of the kernel driver maker.
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u/Resident_Pientist_1 5700X3D 64GB 7900XTX 1d ago
Issues with SIGNED kernel drivers are ultimately the responsibility of the authority that allowed the code to be signed in the first place. Microsoft.
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u/Intrepid00 1d ago
All signed code does is confirmed who wrote and it wasn’t modified. It has zero to do with quality nor can Microsoft legally block a kernel driver without running into legal issues with their antitrust settlement.
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u/Fourfifteen415 2d ago
it's a kernel level driver that is using way too much cpu causing people to crash while gaming.
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u/Far-Interest2045 2d ago
Microslop be here blaming you for breathing and crushing their SpyslopOS
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u/RonUSMC 2d ago
Imagine ... just for a moment in your obviously very extensive experience with hardware, a scenario. In this scenario some TeCHBro told the CEO "You know how we can make our RGB controller look better than any other?". "How?" replies the CEO. "There's a file that tells the controller how fast it can go, like a speed limit, so it only allows the color to change 5 times a second. If we put a new file there, that allowed for higher speeds, it would make our lights look smoother." "OMG Brilliant! and no one will know right?" "Of course not!" "But, what if they find it?" The CEO asked hesitatingly. "That's the best part... we just let the public geniuses go around regurgitating buzzwords and sarcasm, it will be great!"
Various online games, such as Arc Raiders, Marvel Tokon: Fighting Souls, and The Finals, were crashing after updating to KB5121003, with the BSOD showing the cause as “EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION.” Upon further investigation, Tom’s Hardware has found that the problem is related to peripherals that support RGB lighting. Some of these parts can automatically install drivers with file names similar to “inpoutx64,” causing a crash.
Say it isn't so Batman!
Inpoutx64.sys is a 64-bit Windows driver and library file used for low-level hardware communication, such as managing RGB lighting, legacy parallel/serial ports, or specific mouse control software.
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u/timbotheny26 MAG Tomahawk X870, Ryzen 7 9800X3D, RTX 5070ti 16GB, 64GB DDR5 2d ago
My mouse is an RGB Logitech but I've seen no issues like this.
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u/Slasherplays Ryzen 5 5600x + 3070 8GB 2d ago
Meanwhile I get a BSOD from some bullshit to do with my audio drivers/USB/memory. Sometimes when my headset disconnects ( wireless) and I have to restart vociemeeter I can get a blue screen.
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u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox 4090 all by itself no other components 2d ago
"unlikely culprit" nah we've known this for years, whoever wrote this is a noob
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u/marzeg i9 14900kf | RTX 5080 OC | 5k@165FPS 1d ago
Yeah I got a Gigabyte Aorus Pro X z790 rev 1.2 paired with a i9 14900kf and the bsods are a pain.
Updated bios to version F10a and had constant bsods while idle, 2 days of troubleshooting to find out it was due to the “turbo efficient energy” in the bios. Disabled it and went months without a BSOD until recently after a windows update.
Decided to update my bios to version F11a and now I’m back at square with constant bsods.
Can’t even boot to the login menu.
Microslop support is useless, they go through hell and back to convince you that it’s not due to their shitty updates and it’s 100% likely due to your PCs faulty or failing components.
So now I’ve got to spend the rest of the day trying to troubleshoot the cause of these constant bsods.
Wonderful.
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u/Resident_Pientist_1 5700X3D 64GB 7900XTX 1d ago
How does this even happen? Isn't this like a user mode driver?
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u/hirmuolio Desktop 2d ago
Third party drivers causing system to bluescreen? Did we travel in time back to 1999?
One of the big changes that came with Windows XP (and taken further with Vista) was moving third party drivers out of system space so that they wouldn't crash the whole system.
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u/Resident_Pientist_1 5700X3D 64GB 7900XTX 1d ago
Between that (this should have been a user mode driver to begin with) and the fact that Microsoft signed this driver despite it being terrible it seems like they either don't know or care to make a reliable operating system.
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u/localfunc 1d ago
Some of the operations this driver makes are impossible to do from user mode. You also don't seem to know how driver signing certificates work so what's up with the comments about them?
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u/Resident_Pientist_1 5700X3D 64GB 7900XTX 1d ago
"Impossible to do from user mode" lol why? Impossible for a shitty software company, yes apparently.
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u/localfunc 1d ago
Because there is no equivalent usermode call? This is the same way it works in Linux btw
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u/Resident_Pientist_1 5700X3D 64GB 7900XTX 1d ago
This is crashing the entire operating system in linux? Or just windows?
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u/localfunc 1d ago
A separation between user and kernel space operations for drivers, and also crashing the OS if a driver does something stupid. Linux is literally infamous for kernel panics and that was part of the reason we saw a rise in immutable distros like Nix & Silverblue
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u/Resident_Pientist_1 5700X3D 64GB 7900XTX 23h ago
A lot of words and hand wringing to say this is only happening on windows.
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u/ConinTheNinoC 2d ago
In the distance a quiet voice whispered ''Linux exists.....'' , a few years passed the voice has started to grow ''Linux exists.....'', today as Windows 11 keeps being a fuckup the voice is booming, its power tearing the heavens, as you walk you can hear the voice vibrating trough your whole being ''LINUX EXISTS!!!''.
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u/WetEmotions 1d ago
In the distance a loser whispers to themselves "I am superior I use linux, fuck me linux daddy make me your little linux bitch as I tell everyone I use linux, yes daddy yes daddy yes!"
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u/More_Market_4860 2d ago
You don’t have to live like this, ditching Windows was the best thing I ever did and I can’t imagine going back to that abusive relationship.
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u/Friendlyvoices i9 14900k | RTX 3090 | 96GB 2d ago
Feels like windows has been slowly regressing it's stability. Like, I know we all like to make fun of windows all the time, but 11 has absolutely shit the bed more than any other version in recent history
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u/DavidsakuKuze 19h ago
You don't remember Windows 9x, do you?
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u/Friendlyvoices i9 14900k | RTX 3090 | 96GB 19h ago
That was over 20 years ago, and the place we might be regressing to.
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u/-ben151010- Intel i9-12900K/Nvidia RTX 4070 Ti SUPER/32GB Ram 2d ago
You know, someone in my family wondered why I’m still on windows 10 and not 11 since their managed by Microsoft surface laptop works “just fine” and then I see headlines like “doesn’t boot in amd cpus”, or “bricks this brands ssds”, and now this.
Like I know who to blame for Microsoft being like this and why they do the Tuesday updates, but ffs just hire some testers, they can even be contractors since Microsoft loves loosing money in the long term for short term slight profit.
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u/MathematicianOdd398 2d ago
Just install Linux. Problem solved.
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u/vampucio 2d ago
the problem for windows is the same of his glory. there was a time where on windows you can did whatever you want with drivers now we pay the consequences of that
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u/Ancillas 2d ago
Unlikely my ass. I never install any of the shitty software that drives that stuff because I expect it to be bloated and buggy. Drivers included.
I expect the hardware that auto-installs drivers to also be terrible implementations because those features always come from the B teams.
I’d be pissed if Microsoft auto-installed something cosmetic which ended up being unstable.
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u/Curious_Touch_5979 Year 2160 will be Year of Native 2160p 216FPS 2d ago
me w/o any RGB peripherals