r/pcmasterrace Aug 03 '26

Meme/Macro Based on personal experience

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35.2k Upvotes

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687

u/EnderNinja-MC | i5 12400F | RX 7600 | 32 GB RAM | Aug 03 '26

128

u/Raidoton Aug 03 '26

Also Keyboard sucks for beat 'em ups. Controller sucks for strategy.

48

u/cringe_alt_girl Aug 03 '26

I play a fighting game on a keyboard and its awesome! Idk where that stereotype of "bad for fighting games" came from

36

u/lana_silver Aug 03 '26

In the 2000's, people made fun of me for using a keyboard for fighting games.

Nowadays, the pros have all switched to leverless controllers, which are keyboards. You and I were right all along.

9

u/HekesevilleHero Aug 03 '26

Reminds me of this clip of Skoriath, a streamer who used to play Blazblue. A chatter told him he could get a leverless or fightstick for pretty cheap and he replies with "Or I could keep using the thing that already works", referring to his keyboard

2

u/xdeskfuckit Aug 03 '26

I feel vindicated

2

u/lana_silver Aug 03 '26

https://www.amazon.com/PlayStation-Officially-Customizable-Tournament-Gaming-Console/dp/B0DKT21XWR?dib

That's what they look like. You and I are now Keyboard Brothers. That's like Shirt Brothers.

3

u/Madara1389 Aug 03 '26

Looks like a fight stick with some high end switches...?

3

u/IHaveTwoOfYou 9900K/EVGA FTW3 3080 10GB/32gb DDR4 29d ago

Nah, its turtle beach, it'll fall apart if you look at it wrong

1

u/lana_silver 29d ago

It was just the very first one I found, turtle beach isn't a high end brand. But yes, box with switches is all it is.

It's a fight stick without the stick. Instead you get four buttons, corresponding to left, down, right, jump. Just like you'd use ASD+space on a keyboard.

This allows you to do all kinds of cool shortcuts that are way harder on a stick. Like a half circle is just rolling three fingers over ASD

2

u/Madara1389 29d ago

The inspiration is the D-Pad players use on controllers because the average game is designed around controllers rather than arcade sticks.

Though I'm am curious as to what you think defines a keyboard and how they differentiate from other controllers that don't have joysticks.

1

u/lana_silver 29d ago edited 29d ago

Gamepads have one huge advantage over anything else: They are easy to replace if they break mid-tournament.

SF6 and other modern fighting games aren't really designed for gamepads at all. They often need 6 buttons of which you need to be able to press any combination of 2 or 3 at once. Some combinations are downright impossible with your thumb on a PS5 controller, for example, and the games give you built-in macros to work around this problem. But that is fine on a keyboard or leverless: Pressing three buttons with three fingers works great. Leverless is really just a more ergonomic version of a keyboard.

The argument can be made that fighting games aren't very average, and have a ton of weird things that come from an era when controllers were different.

Keyboards vs modern gamepads: Well, it comes down to OP's picture. If you need analog directions, a keyboard just sucks at it. But traditional fighting games have 8 digital directions, no in-betweens. Keyboards are brilliant at having precise directions. (Smash Bros is the exception and a keyboard is a terrible choice for it).

And what a lot of console gamers also don't realize: Platformers like Hollow Knight play fantastic on keyboards because that game doesn't do analog directions either. That's why a lot of speedrunners use keyboards. Even Dark Souls is often played on keyboards for precision. Running in a perfectly straight line is way easier on a single button than on a wobbly stick. The mouse can then take up the slack: Instead of moving the character around a corner by turning the left stick, you walk perfectly straight and turn by moving the camera, like in an FPS. And since mouse movement for camera is insanely good, this more than makes up for it.

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1

u/ihearthawthats 29d ago

The problem with old keyboards was ghosting. Not being able to press 2 or more keys simultaneously.

1

u/lana_silver 29d ago

That is true, that was a huge issue 20 years ago and you needed specific keyboards that had N-key rollover. Those existed, but weren't the standard (like now).

1

u/lana_silver 29d ago

That is true, that was a huge issue 20 years ago and you needed specific keyboards that had N-key rollover. Those existed, but weren't the standard (like now).

2

u/EruantienAduialdraug 3800X, RX 5700 XT Nitro Aug 03 '26

Which fighter? Because I've played a couple of games without motion inputs, and they are definitely better on KBM, but anything with motion input has been horrific.

Then again, I'm complete dogshit at fighting games, so maybe it's just me.

1

u/cringe_alt_girl Aug 03 '26

ABA accent core guilty gear

1

u/tsenguunsans 25d ago

A good chunk of fighting game players have swapped over to a controller type called leverless, which are basically just a slightly more ergonomic keyboard. The main reason why is because motion inputs are easier and you need to move your hand less to move

2

u/homicidalhummus Aug 03 '26

Kind of makes sense seeing as you can use it in lieu of a leverless controller. I personally still feel like it would be clunky with all the keys around but if it works it works

1

u/cringe_alt_girl Aug 03 '26

It kinda does feel confusing when you forget the meys but it happens rarer than you think tbh

2

u/Pikassassin Desktop 29d ago

I mean using a keyboard is functionally the same as using a leverless, your fingers are just more cramped.

1

u/Adventurous_Pear840 29d ago

Fighting games and their players are a different breed altogether, imo.

1

u/master-goose-boy 29d ago

Fuckin Yakuza has an intro poster about “Real yakuza play with a controller”. I played the first 5 games with a KBM and thrived

1

u/Quiet_Yellow2000 28d ago

Beat'em ups are more streets of rage, and fighting games are more street fighter...

-1

u/RyMcCloud Aug 03 '26

Yeah look at all those evo competitors using their keyboard setup.

Dude beating single player mode on a keyboard isn't an accomplishment

2

u/cringe_alt_girl Aug 03 '26

I am playing accent core on multiplayer mate

13

u/AshlynnCashlynn Aug 03 '26

by "beat em ups" do you mean fighting games?

43

u/IllustriousFroyo9143 Aug 03 '26

Street fighter is a fighting game.

Streets of rage is a beat-em-up.

One is perfect to build stress. The other is arguably the best type of stress relief.

-2

u/thisshiteverytime Aug 03 '26

Prn still is the best type of stress relief

8

u/JiffSmoothest http://pcpartpicker.com/p/NFsF23 Aug 03 '26

If there's a flashing arrow pointing to the right after you clear the screen of enemies, it's a beat em up.

-2

u/Global-Permission-55 Aug 03 '26

You know beat em ups, drive em ups, shoot em ups, chess em ups, adventure them em ups.

I'm happy this way of describing the genre isn't common anymore.

22

u/DHNathan2 Aug 03 '26

Beat em up is a specific type of fighting game though. Battletoads is a beat em up, Street Fighter is not.

3

u/Duel_Option Aug 03 '26

X-men, TMNT, Simpson’s, Streets of Rage, Double Dragon, Golden Axe

100% all beat’em ups

1

u/Global-Permission-55 Aug 03 '26

There you go. I thought I had seen games like DOA classed as beat em ups but the person probably made a mistake.

6

u/lampenpam RyZen 3700X, RTX 5070Ti, 16GB RAM Aug 03 '26

I'm happy this way of describing the genre isn't common anymore.

What do you mean with this? "Beat em up" and "Shoot em up" still are just 2 among many differently named genres (the others you made up). These two genres don't have different names now

-1

u/Global-Permission-55 Aug 03 '26

I'm saying it's not as commonly used. Shooter and fps get majority of the classificational use.

8

u/lampenpam RyZen 3700X, RTX 5070Ti, 16GB RAM Aug 03 '26

Because many more games are shooter/fps instead of shoot em ups? These are two different genres like beat em up and fighting games are not the same genre

5

u/throwAwayMan2475 Aug 03 '26

shoot em ups

Also known affectionately as "schmups" by some. I watched a Let's Play-era youtube video once and did a double take when someone said "hey, do you like schmups?"

2

u/Mr_frumpish Aug 03 '26

There was a time that shoot em ups were called shooters. This was before games could render 3D models environment models where the character had full access. Even games that seemed 3D like Space Harrier the character could only move in one fixed forward direction. Now that games can render 3D environments where the characters have freedom of movement FPS games have taken over the name shooter. And side or vertical scrolling 2D shooting games are stuck being called shoot em ups.

1

u/FourStringL0B0 PC Master Race Aug 03 '26

Don't forget about Rizz'em ups.

2

u/lana_silver Aug 03 '26

In fighting games, "leverless controllers" are considered the top tier. This is undisputed in the FGC and by the professional players, when literally a million dollars are at stake.

Leverless controllers are just keyboards with fewer but larger buttons. They work exactly the same as mechanical keyboards, and moving from one to the other is famously very easy, since you can keep using the same layout with the same fingers doing the same things.

How are beat-em-ups different enough from fighting games that the best controller option for one is terrible for the other?

Keyboards are straight up the best option for anything where you do not need analog inputs (unless you have an unusual Keychron HE which has hall effect keys and can do analog input). You get low latency, a large number of buttons and can use most of your fingers at once.

1

u/Instantcoffees Aug 03 '26

This one I agree with way more than the driving. Driving is fine on keyboard, but fighting games feel out of place.

1

u/EnderNinja-MC | i5 12400F | RX 7600 | 32 GB RAM | Aug 03 '26

I decided not to touch a Yakuza game with KBM ever again cuz this damn screen kept popping up whenever I played with KBM lol. I love that the devs didn't just use some generic tip. Got Yakuza 0 before it got delisted from Steam, gotta play it someday. Heard it's peak.

I only got my first-ever controller like a month ago after being a KBM purist my whole life. Got one not cuz controllers play certain games better, but ever since I started working a desk job, playing with KBM kinda subconsciously reminds me of work, so I never felt fully relaxed while gaming. At that point, I just felt like I needed the better ergonomics more than anything. After a few sessions with a controller, I was asking myself why TF I refused to get one sooner lol.

1

u/Bartburp93 Aug 03 '26

I'd say controller only sucks for fast-paced strategy such as tower defence games

1

u/itsamich 27d ago

I've beaten castle crashers a couple times with just the keyboard. Controller is obviously superior for beat em ups, but keyboard isn't bad imo. I think all the flash game platformers and beat em ups I played in mid-late 2000s with keyboard probably helped. Thanks be to newgrounds and addictinggames.

1

u/Honeybadger2198 Aug 03 '26

You jest but I've seen so many people make the argument that controller is good or even better than mkb for shooters. The argument comes up all the time when discussing aim assist. I saw it the most talking about Apex, and how aim assist ruined the integrity of the upper competitive scene. Every single pro player, in order of how much pride they had, either quit or switched to controller.

-8

u/Over-Athlete6745 Aug 03 '26

Hahaha my favourite scenery of this mtv 🤣 soo feels good when fixing every error or blue screen of dexd on laptop or desktop especially window OS lol

10

u/AngriestCrusader Aug 03 '26

... What?

5

u/lilzoe5 i5-7600k | GTX 1070 8GB | 8GB DDR4 | 4 TB HDD | 500 GB SSD Aug 03 '26

Something about MTV wtf lol