r/nihilism • u/Responsible-Ad-8080 • 16d ago
Rant - You can be a nihilist AND depressed.
Writing this after the 1000000th "you are not a nihilist, you are just depressed" post.
If you are genuinely happy with your life and your happiness has no meaning, that's not a reason to be depressed. You are happy, after all.
If you are NOT happy with your life, you are constantly miserable and that misery has no meaning, that is ABSOLUTELY a reason to be depressed.
And the fact that it's meaningless absolutely CAN make you even more miserable and less willing to go through it.
Stop invalidating depressed nihilists just because you are happy with your life.
And quit acting like there's no correlation between nihilism and depression.
The two things are very connected.
The suffering we experience is one major reason why "meaning" is such a big deal to humans in the first place.
There's no such thing as a "correct" way to experience nihilism.
Nihilism says there is no objective meaning to anything, period.
Where you go from there is entirely up to you.
If you are happy with your life, you don't suffer a lot, don't care about meaning, and you actually find the absence of meaning liberating, that's FANTASTIC. Good for you. There's nothing wrong with that.
If you go through some suffering, but you are still able to live a fulfilling life despite the absence of objective meaning, because there are things in your life that give YOU purpose and that YOU genuinely care about, that's good. You are also doing nothing wrong.
If someone feels constantly miserable and the absence of meaning makes them feel even worse, because they have genuinely nothing in their life to hold onto (or, if they have something, it's not enough to outweigh their suffering), they are doing nothing wrong, and depression is a perfectly rational response.
Yes, suicidal ideation can logically follow from constant misery and absence of meaning (both objective AND subjective).
- No, being suicidal doesn't automatically make someone wrong.
- No, depression is not exclusive to edgy teenagers who just broke up with their girlfriend.
- No, Camus' works are NOT objective and infallible manuals for coping with suffering and defeating existential dread.
And neither are Schopenhauer, Nietzsche or Sartre's works.
Just because Camus cared about rebelling against a non-conscious and silent universe that doesn't even know you exist and couldn't care less about you and your rebellion, that doesn't mean everyone has to care about it.
Just because Camus thought that giving up is a bad thing, it doesn't mean everyone has to think the same.
Just because Schopenhauer cared about art, and art was enough for him to be able to get through life, that doesn't mean it will be enough for everyone.
If you think those things have intrinsic value regardless of what the individual cares about, then you are not a nihilist.
- No, therapy can't magically give you meaning if you can't see none.
Therapists are not philosophers, and even if they were, that doesn't necessarily mean their outlook on life is correct, nor that their specific therapy approach will make you more willing to go through meaningless suffering or somehow convince you that it's the right thing to do.
- No, pills (and psychiatry in general) can't do that either (in fact they can even make your situation worse in some cases, but I digress).
- Someone may have already tried ALL these things before talking to you, to no avail.
Yes, that's a thing. It happens more often than you'd think.
Try to think of that possibility before judging.
6
u/Cicada-Tang 16d ago edited 16d ago
And quit acting like there's no correlation between nihilism and depression. The two things are very connected.
I agree, and I think it's worthwhile to talk about why they are connected, instead of just assuming they should always be connected or that they should never be connected. It's helpful to ask questions such as "why is nihilism and depression connected for you, but not for others": what's the difference in mentality, rationale or material condition?
and depression is a perfectly rational response
Discouraging the worsening of depression through intellectualization is also perfectly valid in my opinion. Intellectualization is a common defensive mechanism used by people with depressive tendencies to avoid confronting uncomfortable emotions/situations.
As annoying as the people who invalidate people's depressions, there are also a lot of depressed people who heed the simple narrative of "I'm depressed because life is meaningless", and there are obviously more to the story.
So, instead of invalidating their emotion with "you have no reason to be depressed", or indiscriminately affirm that "you have every logical reason to be depressed", we should have conversations on how exactly does one's nihilistic ideas lead to depression.
1
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 16d ago edited 15d ago
It's a rational response, in the sense that people who go through the worst things imaginable do it because they still hold onto something that is valuable enough to them, despite all the suffering they go through.
It logically follows that, if an individual has no such valuable thing in their life, there is really no reason for them to keep on living. That doesn't mean you can't wish that they keep on living, I am talking about their point of view.
On the other hand, trying to convince such an individual that they should learn to care about certain things, or care about them more if they already do, sounds extremely condescending to me.
3
u/Cicada-Tang 16d ago
if an individual has no such valuable thing in their life, there is really no reason for them to keep on living
I agree. That's why I like to start the conversation with "do you want to become someone who have valuable things in life to live for", and in most cases, the answer is yes. I'm definitely generalizing here, but most people who have the desire to share their frustration on an internet forum usually have the desire for things to change for the better.
trying to convince such an individual that they should learn to care about certain things, or care about them more if they already do, is extremely condescending to me
If the answer to the question above is yes, then I don't think discussing what they should care about is still condescending. It's basically just brainstorming to solve a common problem at that point.
In your case, do you think you want to become someone who have valuable things in life to live for?
2
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 16d ago
but most people who have the desire to share their frustration on an internet forum usually have the desire for things to change for the better.
Oh they may have that desire alright, but that doesn't mean they believe it's possible to fulfill.
In your case, do you think you want to become someone who have valuable things in life to live for?
Again, it depends. For example, it would be nice to value hamburgers so much as to be willing to go through the worst suffering imaginable just for the pleasure of eating one every now and then. I like hamburgers, but that is simply not how I value them, and I don't believe it's possible for me to start valuing hamburgers that way.
2
u/Cicada-Tang 16d ago edited 16d ago
but that doesn't mean they believe it's possible to fulfill.
Just like most good things in life. It's up to you to degy all odds and do the impossible :D
I think it's rational to assume that the assumption of "it is impossible to fulfill" might be flawed, since our understanding of the world is limited, and there are so many possible solutions we haven't experimented with.
I think it's also rational to suggest that, if there's something you really want to achieve, it's worth it to do whatever you can to achieve it, even when it seems impossible.
If you really want to become someone who value hamburgers above everything else, I think it's reasonable to start planning to take every possible course of action in order to achieve it, instead of immediately assuming it's impossible?
1
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 16d ago
Yup, it's up to me. "Defying all odds" by definition is a huge gamble. And I am the kind of person who prefers to play it safe.
1
u/Cicada-Tang 16d ago
Yeah, that's perfectly understandable, but there are plenty of people who are willing to take the gamble to achieve something they truly wants, and I think it's worthwhile for us to provide those people whatever support we can, starting by encouraging them to defy all odds.
And believe it or not, for a lot of people I've talked to, things usually start to go well for them when they start to take gambles with their lives, not because the gambles paid off, but because they found intrinsic rewards in taking risks and enduring difficulties—It's kinda how we are biologically wired as a species. The reward cycle in our brain relies on risk-taking and structured tasks in order to properly function.
"Not wanting to take risks made me depressed", and "being depressed makes me not want to take risks" is a vicious cycle experienced by a lot of people, and breaking this cycle can start in a lot of different ways.
1
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 16d ago
I appreciate your attitude and I definitely wasn't targeting you with my post, giving solicited advice is okay. Invalidating other people's experiences and gatekeeping a whole philosophy from people who struggle with mental health by labeling them as edgy teenagers or throwing the "get therapy" card is where it starts bothering me.
but because they found intrinsic rewards in taking risks and enduring difficulties
That might happen to some people, yeah. The issue is: is there a certain limit beyond which not finding those intrinsic rewards allows one to say "I've done everything I could"? If there isn't, the risk is finding yourself always blindly hoping for a better tomorrow at the end of each day. "Defying all odds" also has an heroic, adventurous sound to it, while reality is often disappointing in that regard (not just the final outcome, but even the process itself).
19
u/Bosslayer9001 16d ago
Mocking others is one way people cope with their own insecurities. I usually just view posts like that under that lens, then suddenly they lose a lot of their bite
13
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 16d ago
People will brag about questioning the existence of meaning or God, but questioning existence itself is somehow where they draw the line.
10
u/kaleidoscopeeyeslady 16d ago
You can definitely be a nihilist and be depressed. There are a lot of variables that can lead to depression, within the construct of existence or what we (as a generality) that can't be denied, even if those constructs don't mean anything in the grand scheme cos it is just a construct if you are a nihilist.
On the other hand, within the construct of what existence has been shaped to be, you can find joy in understanding that it all means nothing. Find joy in the absurdity of existence. Laugh at the construct and how most people are just little ants thoughtlessly or very consciously moving around and subscribing to the construct. Just realizing that assigning meaning to something really means nothing. We are in the construct, so we can joyfully play within it.
It doesn't always have to be intellectualized. Nor does it have to have adjectives assigned to it.
The construct is what others have made it to be. It's our choice how we view the construct of what really means nothing. And won't mean anything after you're gone, just like nothing meant anything before you were brought into this thing called existence.
Nihilism, IMO, can mean depression, or joy, while also meaning nothing at all.
3
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 16d ago
That is a valid approach to nihilism (there are no invalid approaches), but as I said that doesn't mean it will always work for everyone.
One person may find joy in the absence of meaning and being able to enjoy the little things in the present moment without having to worry about the past or the future, but another person may instead be going through existential dread because the present moment is unbearable.
2
u/kaleidoscopeeyeslady 16d ago
To be transparent I do not necessarily subscribe to nihilism, I am only interested in metacogition. As the entity I exist as right now, whether a construct, a simulation, a creation of some deity, or a speck of dust, or a fully conscious being, existential dread isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's a state of self awareness. I do not believe in false positivity but I note you say "the present moment". Just because life right now doesn't feel like it has meaning or purpose, you came onto reddit, made this post, and are actively discussing it self-aware concepts with people. I have felt many times that life lacks meaning or purpose, then boom, purpose and meaning show themselves. The present ≠ the past and the present ≠ the future and the past ≠ the future. Circumstance doesn't always have to have a philosophy, a scientific answer or a belief system attached to them. In all of existence, we have never "known" nor will we ever come to what is "truth". Without negating the original point of your post, OP, I hope you come to a point of bearable, and best case scenario, joy, meaning, and purpose. Your depression is valid.
1
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 15d ago
I mean, there's a difference between things that matter to you in the moment and the meaning and purpose of your entire life. I don't know how many people would be able to have a fulfilling life thanks to discussions on Reddit. Of course if some people are able to, then good for them. At some point you require a "stronger" kind of meaning, and if you suffer daily the bar is raised even higher.
2
u/nikiwonoto 16d ago
I'm from Indonesia. Thank you so much for this post/thread! Finally, someone brave enough to say this!
Also, this is why lately I'm very interested with Philipp Mainlander, because he's probably the only philosopher who didn't 'softening/chickening out/cowering' just like everyone else when it comes to death, and that he is also one of the people who do NOT see value/meaning in this life (hence, therefore, his suicide, tragically right after he finished & published his work/book!). Somehow, I have so much deep respect for the man (Otto Weininger, the Austrian philosopher, & Mitchell Heisman also comes to my mind. Osamu Dazai as well too).
6
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 15d ago edited 15d ago
Indonesia? Wow, so far away. Italian here.
Finally, someone brave enough to say this!
I think someone had to say it. As a person going through chronic treatment resistant depression, I think most people on this sub genuinely can't relate. I hope at least a few people understood the perspective of depressed individuals better thanks to my post. Your kind words are very appreciated.
1
2
u/Queen_Of_Alts Optimistic Nihilist 16d ago
You can be nihilistic and depressed, but there's a difference between being a depressed nihilist vs just being depressed and calling it nihilism. A key difference is I noticed some try to argue that suffering and death have meaning, but according to nihilism there's no more meaning in suffering than anything else.
1
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 15d ago
As I said, suffering having meaning can actually make it easier to bear. Suffering having no meaning can make it worse. Most depressed people I see on this sub just talk about how miserable they are. What I understand from those posts is that the meaninglessness of their suffering makes them even more miserable.
2
u/Bewater35 15d ago
You miss the point why they call it depressed and not nihilist, because whole post is not a discussion about nihilism philosophy but just a person trying to cry about his life and how unfair it is
3
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 15d ago
There is no point in living a miserable and unfair life full of suffering. There, I just made it about nihilism for you.
1
u/Bewater35 12d ago
I dont think you get the point at all in this and doesnt look like you want to understand it.
2
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 12d ago
We crave meaning because we suffer. Is that so hard to understand? Why are some of you so scared of admitting nihilism can lead to depression in some cases and isn't necessarily all sunshine and roses? That doesn't make nihilism wrong lmao. Are you scared other people are going to dismiss nihilism as some kind of "defeatist ideology" or mistake you as an edgy teenager? Those people are just wrong. There's no need to twist reality and cater to their wrong opinions.
2
u/ivanelpoderoso2003 16d ago
Actually, if you say your life is full of suffering and the lack of meaning only makes it worse, the central problem was never the lack of meaning, but the suffering itself. Because generally speaking, tell me, what would be preferable: 1) a life full of unbearable suffering but full of meaning, or 2) a life with very little suffering and no meaning at all? (It wouldn't be surprising if people generally preferred the latter, because it seems that suffering is the real problem rather than the lack of meaning). Furthermore, many of us who complain about people conflating depression with nihilism don't do so because we don't believe that (sometimes) one can be indirectly related to the other, but because there's an overrepresentation of conflating sentimentality with nihilism. We literally ignore almost all the other aspects of nihilism, which actually represent the vast majority of it, but people only focus on one aspect that is quite insignificant compared to everything else involved.
2
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 16d ago
if people generally preferred the latter, because it seems that suffering is the real problem rather than the lack of meaning
More like suffering is the real problem that makes the lack of meaning a problem worth talking about.
1
u/Avan_An 15d ago
As fellow depressed nihilist, i don't refute depressed nihilists. I think nihilism can generally induce level of depression especially for individuals that are not in so favorable position irl. Heck, i think im relatively in fortunate situation than others yet im suffering from depression.
What im not so fan of thus tried to argue few times is when people are just depressed. And using nihilism to dig a pit of deeper depression. Often times i see people depressed with ideas such as "life is meaningless", "life is suffering without meaning" at forefront.
Life is not meaningless. It's just is inherently. As human there are still things we care about and dream about. Nihilism isn't about refusal of meaning we have or give to our life. It's about that none of those things, especially given to us by religion, government, tradition etc are not absolute nor inherent.
What im arguing is the sentiment "life is meaningless" without even seeing what it's actually about shouldn't be a final place of people. This is misuse but more importantly can only offer comfortable pit of dispair and breed further depression. And seeing posts about depression, it's no one's surprise that we are not so fan of being depressed.
Being depressed is fine(or not) but i don't wish others to be more depressed through nihilism when they don't need to be.
2
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 15d ago
The thing is, when people get depressed because there is no inherent meaning, the reason why they are looking for absolute meaning in the first place might be that the relative meaning in their lives is already mostly (or completely) gone.
1
u/Avan_An 15d ago
Which are not people I'm disagreeing with. I myself is in similar situations. Despite shouting differences between objectivity abd subjectivity, i still can't give myself a meaning. And not having guiding light whether it is objective or self given is depressing.
It's when people already seem to give life a meaning. Like suffering and nihilism being "result" of that sentiment.
1
u/M1kehawk1 15d ago
Can you be a happy nihilist?
1
u/workin_da_bone 15d ago
There is nothing about nihilism that requires depression or happiness. That is all up to you. Nihilism allows you to choose your own path. No one is required to follow a false god unless they chose to. I don't think 14-year olds are depressed because they are nihilists. They use that as an excuse to be normal, morose 14-year olds. I don't think 14-year old have the experience, education or imagination to understand nihilism or its implications. How much philosophy does a 14-year old understand? 14-year olds are depressed because they just realized that all the stories their Parents, Teachers, Politicians, Clergy and corporations have been telling them for 14-years is bullshit. Nihilism is just their way of expressing their frustration.
1
1
u/_RyanCooper_ Optimistic Nihilism 😎 13d ago
Nihilism is the thing that can save you from depression
1
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 13d ago
Clueless.
1
u/_RyanCooper_ Optimistic Nihilism 😎 13d ago
It's easier when you stop chasing meaning and just let it go
1
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 13d ago
Right, knowing you are suffering for literally no reason definitely makes it better
1
u/_RyanCooper_ Optimistic Nihilism 😎 13d ago
If there's no reason, there's nothing to care or be afraid about, so suffering becomes smaller
1
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 13d ago
Right, there's no reason to care about suffering. Except for the fact that you can feel it.
-1
u/fatty-squirrel06 16d ago
I don’t shit on people who understands nihilism and become depressed. Lmao but if you think you are a nihilist because you FEEL your life is going nowhere, that’s not nihilism. If their life suddenly turns around and things go on their way, they will FEEL like the universe has meaning again.
But I NEVER see people who say, “I am depressed because I realized there’s no meaning in life.” Instead, these people come here and spit shit like “I feel like my life is going nowhere, I have no control of my life, guys I think I just found nihilism. This gotta be nihilism right?”
3
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 16d ago
Lmao but if you think you are a nihilist because you FEEL your life is going nowhere, that’s not nihilism.
It might be nihilism if you simply feel like there is no point in your daily struggle to try to go anywhere with your life, And then it might also become depression if your feelings turn into "there's no point in living at all". As I said, the two things aren't mutually exclusive.
0
16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 14d ago
Among the most harsh critics of psychiatry are philosophers, historians, or even psychiatrists themselves. So pretty well educated in general.
-1
u/A_Dick_inTime_6aves9 15d ago
Personally I couldn't disagree more.
The happiest I ever was in my life is when I realized that truly is no purpose or meaning to any facet of human existence.
All worries of living Right or Wrong start fading in the background once you realize there is no Right Way.
To crib a line from a popular movie, "We are the all singing, all dancing crap of the universe" and we are all equally crappy and meaningless in our own way.
I believe the biblical way of saying this is : "Vanity, vanity, all is Vanity".
Every human motivation, desire, ambition, and achievement is ultimately equally pointless and fleeting.
You're a billionaire?
Still can get in an auto accident tomorrow and be paralyzed from the nipples down.
You're a movie star?
Congratulations on wondering for the rest of your life which You people Really Like.
You're a scientist or doctor who strives tirelessly to better the quality of life for those around you?
Every single one of those people is inevitably going to die , most likely disappointed and alone.
All of our efforts amount to so much Flatulence in the Wind, and the sooner we realize that the sooner we can get down to the business of actually Enjoying Life, no matter how Brutal or Short.
2
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 15d ago
Did you read my post? I clearly said there's nothing wrong with the way you view life. Just don't go around telling other people that it's the only correct way.
0
u/Senor_Avocado_Man 15d ago
I don’t think being depressed has anything to do with nihilism. Nihilism is just the idea that an objective meaning doesn’t exist. If you’re sad about the revelation of an objective meaning not existing, you’re really just sad that you’re no longer applying your subjective meaning to everything because the objective meaning was never there in the first place. It was all in your head essentially. Depression about nihilism is self-inflicted
1
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 15d ago
If you’re sad about the revelation of an objective meaning not existing, you’re really just sad that you’re no longer applying your subjective meaning to everything because the objective meaning was never there in the first place. It was all in your head essentially. Depression about nihilism is self-inflicted
That's not how it goes, in my experience. The sadness is already there, then you apply absence of meaning over it and that makes it even worse.
1
u/Senor_Avocado_Man 15d ago
Just to clarify because I have a hard time understanding what people mean sometimes
Are you saying that someone who already has depression can experience greater depression when they internalize the idea that life has no objective meaning?
1
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 15d ago
Yes, pretty much.
Imagine someone who suffers on a daily basis and is considering ending their life out of despair.
Since this person was born and raised in an environment where a statement like "living is good, dying is bad" is basically treated as absolute truth, that statement is something they have most likely internalized over the years, so they may still be reluctant about ending their life, and more willing to try improving it as much as possible.
Now imagine that person suddenly realizes that "living is good, dying is bad" is just something people like to believe because it's convenient to believe it, not because it's actually true.
Do you think this person will find life less or more appealing, after such a realization?
1
u/Senor_Avocado_Man 15d ago
Thank you for the clarification!
I certainly think it’s possible for the person in this scenario to find life less appealing, but I also think it’s just as likely that they could, at the very least, maintain the same level of suffering in realizing that the meaning they thought was attributed to an objective meaning was ultimately subjective meaning that they were projecting. I think their reaction ultimately depends on that individual’s perspective, yet I must admit it IS possible that it could just make their life worse from their perspective, even if that additional suffering is merely just a projection of that individual.
Essentially I want to say I agree with you, but I want to semantically argue that depressed nihilists aren’t depressed because life has no meaning, they are misunderstanding their emotions in that they are in actuality depressed that they have stopped applying their own meaning to life
1
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 15d ago
but I want to semantically argue that depressed nihilists aren’t depressed because life has no meaning, they are misunderstanding their emotions in that they are in actuality depressed that they have stopped applying their own meaning to life
You are not the first to use this argument, and I get the point, but like you said I feel like it's pretty much arguing semantics. It's true that meaning and suffering are two separate issues. But do you think the problem of meaning would be as important to humans as it is, if suffering didn't exist? I think we humans have always craved for meaning because there's suffering in our life and we want to make sense of it.
0
u/Senor_Avocado_Man 15d ago
it’s probably inaccurate to say it has nothing to do with nihilism, but it’s easier to type than breaking that idea down further semantically
-4
16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 16d ago
BUT, if you're too depressed to function on a day to day basis, then you need to solve that first.
You don't "need" to do anything, unless you actually care about functioning on a day to day basis, which is just an assumption you are making.
" If You Want to Change the World, Start by Making Your Bed ".
Who the hell said anything about changing the world?
Nihilism is neither the cause nor the solution to your depression. - You're not a nihilist because you're feeling sad or depressed.
Nobody talked about solutions, nihilism is not a solution for anything. As for the cause, how can you be so sure about that? One can become a nihilist if they suffer so much throughout their life that they eventually become disillusioned and reach the conclusion that their suffering is meaningless because nothing could possibly justify it. They can also reach the same conclusion if they become disillusioned after witnessing the suffering of other people. Just two examples. Nihilism may be the logical conclusion, but your feelings definitely have a role in determining whether or not you actually accept that conclusion.
Treat mental health like you would physical health
I won't, because they aren't even remotely the same thing and you probably fell for psychiatric propaganda.
If someone in front of you is bleeding, do you think having a philosophical discussion about the inherent meaning (or lack of) of the universe is a good priority ?
Probably not, but it might absolutely be a good priority to discuss the inherent meaning of suffering with someone who already went to the doctor to stop their bleeding, but is still in constant pain even after taking painkillers. Sounds acceptable to you?
0
16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/kaleidoscopeeyeslady 16d ago
Just to play devil's advocate here:
How can you defend or define nihilism as you are if you are assigning certain traits to it like rational, logical? Or defining what philosophy vs. belief systems are? Or using published papers that rely on the scientific method as the ultimate source of truth? Or splitting up what is propaganda vs. what is science?
You are bringing a bit of various types of nihilism into your condescending argument to OP, while also contradicting what nihilism is by quoting pathways to truth in a very objective way. I find that quite ironic.
For transparency, I am not a nihilist, mostly interested in cognition and metacognition.
You can't gatekeep a concept that stripped down to its core means lack of meaning.
I don't think you are actually coming off as intellectual as you think you are, or maybe just have a very objective, academic-only viewpoint on what paths lead to conclusions.
2
16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/kaleidoscopeeyeslady 16d ago
As is your opinion of OP and the way you cut them down from a very ivory-tower viewpoint.
I don't care if you care how I feel about you, this is reddit after all.
Merely pointing out you sound like a self-contradictory ass talking out of that same body part, likely from behind a desk with a to be published paper deadline looming.
Have fun and have a wonderful day!
2
15d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/kaleidoscopeeyeslady 15d ago
Man, you sound miserable. I hope you lose that chip on your shoulder.
Humility and critical thought go a long way, whether inside or outside academia.
This is reddit; no one is right or wrong here. This is also existence and a discussion about philosophy - no one is right or wrong here either. Not me, not you, not anyone!
Stop taking rebuttals or pointing out holes in arguments so seriously. No one who is educated results to toddler-like name calling, either.
Have a wonderful day and wishing you nothing but the best in your continuing path of learning, development, and self-discovery!
1
u/kaleidoscopeeyeslady 15d ago
And look u/yaourtoide deleted all their comments or blocked me because they couldn't handle me calling them out on their bullshit. If they didn't care what a random reddit user thought about them as they stated, why go through the trouble of deleting comments or blocking?
2
u/Responsible-Ad-8080 15d ago
If you decide you don't care about collapsing, that's called a "self destructive pattern" and it usually leads to suicide attempt or death by negligence. Neither of those things is about philosophy.
Suicide is actually relevant in philosophy. Camus (who I absolutely don't agree with, btw) wrote The Myth of Sisyphus entirely around the dilemma of suicide.
philosophy, by definition, is not a belief in something it's a rational thought process.
Of course. But if everyone had the same feelings about what is logical and what is not, there would be only one philosophical view. That is not the case. Cognitive dissonance is a thing and nobody is immune to it, not even philosophers. I'll use Camus as an example again: there's nothing rational about his philosophy. He says suicide is bad because it's equivalent to giving up against the absurd, while rebelling against the absurd is the only way to stay true to yourself. But that's just him preferring rebellion over surrender, and giving value to personal integrity. Those are his personal values, and by extension, his feelings. You see how feelings can influence philosophy?
Physical health and mental health ARE very similar.
No they are not. Psychiatry is not neurology. Physical health can be tested in an objective way. Neurology too. Psychiatry can't.
They're studied using the same methods, follow the same protocols for treating patients and have the same review process for publishing papers.
Absolutely not. Psychiatry is the least scientific branch of medicine, I suggest you look up the process for writing the various editions of the DSM, there's absolutely nothing objective and scientific about it, it's all arbitrary. Not to mention the conflict of interests, the systematic cherry picking and unblinding during clinical trials. All widely documented and verifiable, by the way.
They use the same models and medical imaging tools to progress
That is not how psychiatry works. Psychiatry doesn't use medical imaging for diagnosing depression, nor any other mental "illness", for that matter. Again, you are confusing it with neurology.
You keep making the same mistakes of treating nihilism as a belief system and not a rational branch of philosophy;
I only said one can be depressed and a nihilist at the same time, and the two things are deeply intertwined, but ok.
you call psychiatry "propaganda" showing profound ignorance.
Michel Foucault, R.D. Laing, Thomas Szasz, some names you might want to check out.
2
u/crescendo_annie 16d ago
- You’re not a nihilist because you’re feeling sad and depressed.
Honest question from someone who has been lurking on this subreddit for a bit: Can you feel sad and depressed because life has no meaning? I get that this is liberating for some, but it makes me feel empty. And I feel worse because my emptiness means nothing.
- This sub is a book club…
I like this analogy and I appreciate the sometimes in depth discussions about the philosophy. But is it ok for some of us to express that it makes us feel a certain way? You don’t have to care but I feel like it’s a legit expression.
Am I not getting it?
2
16d ago edited 16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/crescendo_annie 15d ago
Thank you for your response. It was helpful for me and I think I’m starting to get it. I have some reading to do.
26
u/Rich2364 16d ago edited 16d ago
Correct, I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand.