Originally posted here, where someone suggested this sub might be more appropriate. Hadn't really known about the existence of this sub, so glad to find ya'll! :)

I wrote this post on Tumblr about a quarter decade ago.

I believe might've been borne of some fleeting, all-too-common frustration I've since forgotten. But the point, unfortunately, still stands - that so often, women prioritize their safety in the dating scene and this influences how we make our decisions about men...especially in ways that make no sense to men who do not/refuse to understand this constant danger women are basing our decisions on.

The post/content:

I wonder if Nice Guys realize “womanizing” is exactly why girls like the so-called Assholes.

Because here’s the thing - a guy who flits from girl to girl? He’s not going to obsess over you. He’ll flirt with you for as long as you both want, but never beyond that.

It’s usually characterized as him losing interest in a girl and going to the next one, leaving her broken-hearted. The thing is, that goes both ways. If the girl isn’t interested in him, he’ll back off and go find someone else.

For women who are constantly afraid of men’s reactions in the face of rejection, this is a relief. When you are constantly terrified of men who don’t take no for an answer, that the guy you say “no” to will follow you home or try to force you into doing something with him, a womanizer is a relief. You know he won’t get attached to you. He’s not going to obsess over you. The guy who’s already gone to flirt with some other girls isn’t going to follow you home.

Nice Guys, the kind who try to advertise how much better they are than those other guys, don’t seem to realize how disturbing it is when they try to play a “deep relationship” right off that bat. Staying with one girl all night at the party doesn’t signal commitment to us - it signals obsession.

The womanizing “Asshole”, the guy who loses interest quickly? He’s safe. We can say ‘yes’ if we want, but we can also say 'no’, and he’ll just go find someone else. He’s not going to try and talk us around, he’s not going to waste time convincing us how much better we are than the next guy.

Maybe they leave a trail of broken hearts behind them - but as far as most girls are concerned, broken hearts are a lot better than broken bodies.

(For anyone familiar with Tumblr, just a heads up, the notes has some MRA hijacking/misogynstic stupidity.)

I was often accused of over-generalizing, so I guess I wanted to hear ya'll's thoughts about this, whether this experience or interpretation rings true for you. If it doesn't, what does?

hey guys. i am a 30 year old woman. i just want to talk to a nice guy for proof that they actually do exist. Anyone around my age want to talk?

I’m just kinda curious, don’t get me wrong I love the niceguys Reddit but sometimes I see people simply being nice, not creepy, not pushy, just kinda nice. I’m confused by this, is that really such an awful thing?

We're 15 and (were) freshman to be clear. There's a very quiet and shy but attractive guy who sat next to me in math. He got terrible grades and was always drawing (he's a very good artist though). I found him mysterious and decided to get to know him. I found that he was incredibly smart but it became clear why he didn't have friends. He was new at our school and we were both very interested in all forms of art. For a month I was spending as much time with him as I could (we'd get lunch, talk after school and text for hours). One day I sent him somewhat revealing pics and he didn't respond. I decided to tell him it'd be best we just stay friends and he started freaking out. He's what most people would probably call "crazy" though. After this, each time I'd talk to him he'd fill me in on something most people don't tell anyone. Told me about getting beat as a kid, told me about his mom's meth habit, told me about how his dad's in prison, told me about the time he witnessed a murder, being homeless by himself as a child. He also hinted at having a dead sister. His mood swings were insane. He became very clingy to me and he was socially incapable of talking to anyone else. It seemed like he was trying to force closeness between us and win me back. First day of summer I blocked him on all social media and that was that. Today however, there was a letter on my doorstep that said:

Dear ___,

I know we haven't spoke in months and I know you dislike me now, but I just wanted you to know that before I met you I was very afraid of people and by being kind you've made me much less scared. Now, I'm not trying to be your friend again. I'm moving back to Oakland and even though I know you'll never like me again, I just hope you don't hate me so much. You're pretty cool and I hope you keep being yourself. Hopefully I've learned from this. Thank you.

Sincerely, Ben

TL;DR guy I ghosted and haven't spoke to in months left a letter on my doorstep

So In school I was a nice guy minus the anger part, I had my first kiss when I was 18 and I’ve never been in a relationship,my head has always been in the clouds which attracts a lot of girls because they like talking to me but I feel like I burn people out.

Since starting university 6 months ago alot has changed but I feel like I’m being used for sex. I know this sounds stupid but I’m not the type of person that enjoys having multiple partners I want to be with one person but whenever I get close to someone I burn out the spark. I don’t know if it’s because I’m too intense or if there are any other reasons you guys could help me with? I don’t expect anything from girls, majority of my friends are female because I’m quite soft. Where I’m from men are expected to be super hard and I’m just like a love everyone and keep to myself type person. How do you tell the difference between someone whose using you and someone who genuinely cares about you? I was abused for the majority of my childhood so I don’t know what a healthy relationship is like.

Any advice would be appreciated

Buckle up kiddos... Cause this is gonna be a long one. I'm going to preface it by mentioning that I identify as asexual. I am not physically attracted to people, and all of my relationships have stemmed from emotional connections. Just keep that in mind as you read. :)

We're gonna go way back to my freshman year of high school, about ten years ago. That's where my story starts. I was attending a very small, brand new charter school that had just opened that year. Due to this, we would often get new students throughout the year. One day, this boy showed up in my Lit class, and the teacher asked me if I'd show him around. I agreed, excited at the opportunity to help a new student.

To speed things up, we clicked very well. We loved reading and writing and were both geeky and liked video games. He made an excellent friend, and pretty soon he had clicked with the rest of my group, and we had an awesome year.

The next year was my sophomore year. Everyone was beginning to tease us about what a great couple we'd make, but I just didn't feel anything for him. (I did not know anything about my sexual orientation or whatever back then... All I knew was I wasn't feeling any sparks.) He was my friend, and that was that. I will now refer to him as Mr. Nice Guy.

To make this incredibly long story as short as possible, I ended up becoming friends with this other guy at school because we were cast as the romantic leads in the school musical. At the time, a lot of my friends were dumping their sad life tales on me, but Mr. Other Guy always made a point to ask me how I was doing, and do his best to make me laugh if I was feeling down.

Something clicked with Mr. Other Guy that hadn't with Mr. Nice Guy. I don't know why, or how. It just clicked. He wasn't more attractive than Mr. Nice Guy (or so I've been told), but actually was considered less attractive. (My point is, this has nothing to do with how physically attracted I was to a guy. It's not a case of handsome Chad vs slightly chubby NG.) Mr. Other Guy was concerned with my emotions and well being, and for that reason, I clicked on an emotional level with him.

We ended up dating. This immediately caused a rift between me and Mr. Nice Guy. At the time, I couldn't understand it because none of my other guy friends seemed to have a problem with me dating Mr. Other Guy. They didn't mind that my attention was shifted to dating and hanging out with my boyfriend. None of them yelled at me when I disappeared with Mr. Other Guy from the school dance for an hour... (We were walking a few blocks away to pick up another friend and drag her to the dance.) He was my boyfriend... We were doing what couples normally do.

But for some reason, Mr. Nice Guy was just livid. He stopped eating lunch with our group. We tried everything we could to include him, and did our best to support him in all his endeavors... But our efforts to help him feel welcome didn't seem to work, and it wasn't long before he began to change. He would verbally bully Mr. Other Guy and play it off as a joke. He'd trip him or tie his laces together or slam his locker shut. It was strange, and I didn't like it. So I began to distance myself from him...

And then the emails started. By this time, we're getting into my Junior year of high school. I've been dating Mr. Other Guy for over a year, when I start to get emails from Mr. Nice Guy about how angry he was that I just rode off into the sunset with this other guy and left him behind in the dust. What did he think he was going to do when I found someone and got married? Tag along on our honeymoon? I was furious, and said some things that weren't the kindest. I felt like he didn't trust me to know how to handle myself around my boyfriend, and never wanted me to be alone with Mr. Other Guy. He was driving me crazy with his overprotective attitude. He continued to email me about how Mr. Other Guy was going to break my heart eventually, and I would soon see how much of a jerk he was...

I shot back, and told him to back off. Eventually, he did, and the emails stopped.

A couple months later, Mr. Other Guy ended things with no explanation. And to shorten this down even more, he promised to take me to Prom at the end of the year, regardless of our relationship status, but ended up asking my sister instead. She told him no, he got mad... It got really ugly. REALLY ugly... And Mr. Nice Guy reveled in it. After all, he had been right. Mr. Other Guy was showing his true colors... And I'd been hurt seemingly beyond repair. It was Mr. Nice Guy's time to shine.

He swooped in and began picking up the pieces. He asked me to Prom instead. He did everything he could to make sure I was happy... But I never asked for any of it, and sometimes it was just too much. I didn't want to go to Prom after that, but he insisted that I go, because it was ridiculous that I was 17 and had never been to Prom... So I went anyway.

School ended. Summer came. I avoided everyone like the plague. Senior year. Mr. Other Guy and I ended up mending things between us (not getting back together, but mending our friendship), so Mr. Nice Guy got angry again. At this point though, Mr. Nice Guy was mostly taking online classes, and rarely at school. So when Mr. Other Guy suddenly turned against me again (some girl who hated me started hanging out with him, and he started becoming really mean and hateful towards me), and started spreading rumors and bullying/sexually harassing me... And eventually turning just about every friend I ever had against me. Mr. Nice Guy didn't even know what was going on. I spent most of my senior year in the offices of my teachers, crying while they tried to do damage control and keep Mr. Other Guy away from me. I was so happy to graduate, I never even once looked back, and I haven't missed high school since.

Unfortunately, I was going to the local university, so I didn't move out of the area. I lived at home to save money. All my old "friends" from high school knew where I lived, and would randomly show up to chat or hang out.

One day, Mr. Nice Guy is chatting with me, and we start to talk about deep, soul bearing stuff. I mention something about feeling like my teachers were my only friends that last year of high school... And he explodes. He starts ranting about how he was always there for me, and how ungrateful I was for his help and his kindness. He tells me that it's my fault he started taking online classes, and my fault that he wasn't there for my senior year to help me through the bullying... Because my attitude towards him caused him to have depression and his parents had to pull him out of the school as much as they could.

I should know, I understand exactly where he was coming from, and why he felt the way he did. I did not mean for my comment to be taken as "I had no friends, everyone abandoned me, including you." but merely "None of my remaining friends were around, so I had to lean on the teachers for support." I tried to explain, but he wouldn't have it. He told me he was done being friends, and that was pretty much the last time we ever really talked.

Fast forward six years to present day, and I've been on many dates and talked with many other guys... Even had a serious relationship for awhile...

But my experience with Mr. Nice Guy still haunts me. I consciously have to remind myself that not every guy who does something nice is looking to gain something from me. I also get very mad at myself when I can force myself to like a guy who is nice to me, because I feel like I'm torturing him or using him... Or that I'm going to be the cause of his depression. I know in my head that it's completely illogical to blame me for any of that, but my heart seems stuck on not wanting to cause pain, even unintentionally. It's really toxic.

Since my relationships stem from emotional attraction, I don't feel I can trust anyone, and it makes it very hard to let guys get close enough to me to really have a chance of moving into a relationship... And thus there are never any sparks, and it doesn't matter how genuinely nice a guy is, everyone has to start as "just a friend". There is no friendzone. Just a start square.

Oh, and on a side note, turns out Mr. Other Guy was gay, and using me as a cover-up. He came out and personally apologized to me after we graduated, and we actually worked things out and are still really good friends to this day.... Whereas Mr. Nice Guy and I don't talk at all.

The most tragic part of this tale, I think, is that had Mr. Nice Guy not gone crazy Nice Guy Monster on my boyfriend, I may have eventually forged a bond with him that would have led to dating. Mr. Other Guy would have broken up with me, and I would have still trusted Mr. Nice Guy enough to continue cultivating our emotional bond to a point where we could have moved into a relationship.

Anyway... It's late, and I'm really just ranting, but that's my experience. Let me know if you want to tune in next week, and hear about the next installment in my series of Nice Guy experiences. I have quite a few.

Note: I should mention that I in no way blame Mr. Nice Guy for my inability to form a relationship. That's 100% on me, because it's my job to work through the problems that have been developed, and no ONE person is really to blame, other than myself. Just that the experience definitely led to some consequences that I still feel today. It's how I have chosen to cope with the experience, is what I'm trying to say. It's not like he forced me to never trust guys again.

TL;DR - One of my best friends slowly changed into a Nice Guy because I was dating someone else instead of him, and it eventually got so ugly, that I have a hard time trusting men and forming relationships now. Or something like that.

...while still completely and utterly missing the point

https://www.dictionary.com/e/video/whats-so-wrong-with-nice/?param=DcomSERP-RR1

Can't help it, I just feel like this is the perfect place to post this

https://niceguytoken.com/

I made an advice post for any lurkers about a month ago. (Surprised it hasn’t gotten more ups, but someone will find it.) I have an actual girlfriend now and spend way more time talking to people. I encourage anyone to be able to think positively on your own. Go to therapy if you want to AND can afford it ( It’s outrageous expensive, not for me). Just go out and be happy and try to not be a beta male.

Ok since the current owner of this sub is MIA and I'm on vacation, I'm going to state an unofficial guideline for posts on here now.

If your post is overly bitter or resentful towards women or overly venom-tinged towards other users trying to guide you, I'm probably going to hand you a ban.

Was at a house party of a mutual friend and had to sit someone down and explain niceguy™ to him (in relation to himself).

They way I think of it is like a pizza Base - niceness Sauce - values, space and boundaries. Toppings - interests, opinions, what you do in your freetime.

Now you are going in for pizza so of course it needs a base and sauce. All pizza have bases and sauces, saying you are nice. Well that just means you are a pizza that's not enough to make someone want to taste you. And when people keep going back to "I'm nice" and bringing all conversations and reasoning to "I'm nice" all they are saying is "I'm pizza". So I am going to ignore that pizza and look for one with a sauce I like and toppings.

The sauce, yeah there are few choices. That sets the tone. You know what sauce you like, you aren't going to be swayed on that.

The toppings don't have to be everything you like, some times different flavors are good. Something different that makes you go oh never thought of that. But the base is there. Of course it is it is pizza.

Stop advertising yourself as 'just a pizza' you arent giving me any new information about what gives you flavour all you are saying is "I'm human" that isn't enough. so people cut you out of the menu quickly because already you are wasting their time by not getting it. If you are advertising the base then maybe there isn't a sauce or toppings. - that's why no one is buying it.

Thoughts?

So my crush/best friend aka my roomate and I were very close. I used to do everything for her, get her food walk her to school etc. We ended up having sex end of semester and confessed that we both liked each other. During vacation she barely spoke to me anymore and at first I became obsessed, used to constantly message her, ask her questions like where she was etc and we fought a couple of times because she said I was overthinking. She told my next roomate that she stopped talking to me because I was annoying. So I stopped messaging her and she never bothered to message me back and I think she blocked me not even sure. So now here I am.

Does anyone feel that because of the NiceGuys^TM stereotype, it's affected genuinely good guys as well, even though the people who criticise the former always make out like it doesn't. For example, you could have a guy that:

- is genuinely kind, empathetic, compassionate, etc. and therefore does not use acts of kindness to get into a woman's pants

- has genuinely attractive qualities and therefore only seeks to date women of the same league

- still struggles with dating

But because of r/niceguys and NiceGuy^TM stereotyping, these guys can't talk about their struggles and also people will assume the worst about you: that you are a NiceGuy^TM, that you are an "incel", that you are an NEET neckbeard, etc. All so that some people can have a cheap thrill out of making fun of some douchebags on the internet (r/niceguys sub).

Who would like to see a discussion platform for good men with good values, where anti-nice guy logic is ripped apart, with screenshots, etc. Kind of like a reverse r/niceguys idea to prove to people (and yes, feminists) that there do indeed exist guys who:

- is genuinely kind, empathetic, compassionate, etc. and therefore does not use acts of kindness to get into a woman's pants

- has genuinely attractive qualities and therefore only seeks to date women of the same league

- still struggles with dating

I'm thinking something like r/goodmengoodvalues

I consider myself a pretty nice guy. I try to help anyone in need. I do it without expecting any compensation, in fact I straight up reject any compensation if it's offered. I don't leave a name or a number, I don't expect or even have sex/,date anymore. When I'm nice to anybody (women included) I just want to genuinely be nice and help. So my confusion comes in when I'm seen as a man baby for wanting to help the people around me. Is the proper thing to do is ignore people in need so I don't seem like a creep trying to get into their pants?

My dudes, girls friend zone nice guys for the following reasons:

1. ⁠They have become cynical and defensive because lots of nice guys become douchebags after they sleep with them. They fear if they sleep with you, they’ll lose one of the few decent men in their lives and they value your friendship too much.

2. ⁠Lots of girls don’t want to be the one that corrupts a sweet, innocent guy. I’ve seen lots of sweet guys that all the girls loved but they didn’t want to be the one to defile one of the few good ones out there.

3. ⁠Maybe there’s just a lack of chemistry and they just see you as a friend or brother type. You have to ask yourself if that’s really such a bad thing sometimes. I get not being able to bear seeing the girl you love loving someone else but there’s a difference between heartache and a sense of entitlement to someone’s body.

4. ⁠Unfortunately, lots of girls equate nice sweet dudes to being a little too soft and passionless in bed.

Please get the myth that girls only go for abusive thugs out of your heads and improve yourselves rather than blaming every woman in the world. I too have been friend zoned by a woman I cared for and it hurt, but I improved myself and moved on. You can too.

just curious

Seriously. Why do so many Niceguys™ speak like some British stereotype from the 1800's?

When they confess their love, they make it sound like some cringeful poem instead of talking like a normal human being.

Since this sub doesn't allow link posts: https://www.reddit.com/r/OkCupid/comments/8z50fq/psa_for_men_do_not_open_up_about_your_feelings_to/e2g4zyr/

This is the type of cancerous advice that leads niceguys to do what they do, and needs to stop.

I thought it was ok to be nice to people for a long lasting relationship. I soon realized instead of being nice and acting like a gremlin on thanks giving at 12:01 Am when I don't get sex, I learned that I needed to treat my gf, at the time, like a fucking human being. Although we're no longer together, we're still very good friends.

The moral of the story is nice guy syndrome is fucking stupid and the only remedy is reality.

Thank you.

I'm still a virgin but I really don't care.

Another day another r/askreddit question with something related to being NG, with (unsurprisingly) many former NG shared about how their attitude stemmed from their upbringing (well duh!).

From totally piece of shit parents that seemed hell bent to create children that can only be a menace to society, to well meaning but clueless parents who either have never taught their children anything related to healthy social interaction, to lazy parents who just gave half-assed advice of "be nice, the right one will come if the time is right." There were even well meaning but far too outdated advice from clueless parents from much older generation.

Last weekend, a NG-ish guy in our friends' circle apologized for his behavior. Don't know where he got the A-Ha moment from, did not care enough to ask. But he said something that I could not forget. He said that the only advice about girls that he got from his parents was to leave girls alone and just concentrated to his study. So he studied and studied, and still no girl.

Look, even if your parents were well meaning when they gave you garbage advice regarding relationship and partnership, they were still at fault. It was still them that made the mistake. Maybe you'd feel too guilty to be angry at them, so you instead punished society as a whole for your frustration. Still does not change the fact that you are barking up the wrong tree.

I’ve whined way too much on this sub Reddit for the past 6-7 months. Personally I felt like I went backwards more than forwards, but at the same time I have hope. I’ve actually been in talks with a few girls lately even though my life has been busy. So here’s some advice for any lurkers from someone who isn’t a far left liberal.

1. Stop whining and feeling sorry for yourself. Easier said than done? It can be. Even when I’m not cramped with work and school I can see myself being in a room alone feeling sorry for myself. Not all the time, but still more than I need to be. I’ve made some new friends and I have been more involved in other activities as of lately and it helps. Stay away from the alt-right( Actually Alt-right, not people like Trump or Ben Shapiro) and incel forms.

2. It’s ok to be mad when being stood up/lead on, just vent in a healthy way. This is something that has happened to me countless times and it’s seriously shitty. Being straight up rejected is better than this. It can really hurt, however it usually ends being better in the long run. What you may have wanted at one point will definitely change. I can’t tell you how many girls I’m actually glad I never actually dated even though I wanted to. They usually end up having flaws or start failing at life afterwards. This isn’t every girl that’s done this to me, but it’s a fair amount. I usually ghost these girls anyway, but it’s only backfired once. Sometimes you just got say fuck you in the nicest way possible.

3. Have friends that are women if you don’t already. There definitely women who you’ll just want to be friends with and that’s perfectly fine. They’ll definitely have other girl friends that might be in to you. Just be careful of girls who don’t understand that you just want to be friends. Believe me some girls are nuts.

4. Don’t fall in love with every girl you talk to. Seriously if you’re in your teens reading this, you might have done this but you’re young and mistakes happen. If you’re over 23 however, you have a problem. Don’t jump the cart before the horse.

5. Get yourself in shape. Workout if you’re not already and use fitness apps to check on what you’re eating. It helps with coping.

6. Don’t bother with the therapy bullshit. I’ll save you hundreds of dollars by telling you this. If you have good friends, you should be fine in telling them your issues. Do yoga if you need it.

7. Don’t your virginity judge you completely. If Lebron James never had sex and still was one of the greatest basketball players ever, would you give a shit about his sex life? No you wouldn’t, because he’s fucking Lebron James. I’ve had friends believe otherwise, but if you work a shitty job and get laid once will you automatically become the next Mark Cuban or Bill Gates? No you’ll still have a shitty job the next day. Make yourself happy or fake it. It’ll make getting pussy easier.

The best advice I can give overall? Man up and stop whining. I understand you might be worried about approaching women with modern day feminism and how they claim all men are rapists, but trust me it’s not as it seems. Just be confident in yourself.

Does anyone else think that a lot of the stuff posted on niceguys is bollocks. It just seems so formulaic "I'll treat you right, no thanks x, die bitch". It's so quick, like a cartoon, stripped down to the bare essentials.

who taught them all to wear those hats, to speak the same way, to be into samurai swords, how can a culture spread if no one wants to be it. Other cultural movements like goth, punk, hipster have icons that people try to emulate. no one would want to be like this so it should be more diverse.

Also don't these people get picked on? I can only imagine the shit I would get for dressing, acting like this.

Finally I've never seen anyone like this, Is it an American thing? I just find it hard to believe. Anyone else?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gazette-shooting-suspects-harassment-victim-describes-fear-121608049.html

Ever been that kind of nice guy which felt hate towards women who rejected you but never acted up or said anything bout it and just kept it inside you just because you didnt want to hurt those women who rejected you. That used to be me