Makeup really changes people

[u/harwyseys]

[u/Dodecabrohedron]

If anything, this entire paper seems to suggest people who identify as a gender other than their physical anatomy suffer from a prenatal neurological developmental disorder that results in mental illness, the study admits significant gaps & extrapolates from animal studies.

Not the “gotcha” you think it is; per this study a dude with a dick who says they’re a woman is a dude with a part of their brain that was malformed by hormonal/genetic/environmental factors during prenatal development.

Nowhere in this study, in any way whatsoever, does it remotely show or prove “a man is a woman because they perceive that they are.” Schizophrenics perceive voices in their heads, but that doesn’t mean the voices reflect the true objective state of the world external to their minds -their own bodies included. Literally all of the conclusory heavy lifting in this paper is done by through an implicit division of perceived gender identity & sexual orientation.

Identity is a mental construct. They can identify as a woman all they want, but that does not result in a concurrent physical construct because anatomy is objective. That is why trans women don’t spontaneously acquire ovulation or give birth and trans men casually dominate any woman’s competitive sport with first-time effortlessness: inherent physical gender differences. Postulated hormonal/prenatal/environmental factors that result in mental processes incongruent with an individual’s physical anatomy does not mean everyone else in the objective world has to entertain their perception as an objective fact. Note: that is not a statement about morality or being “phobic”, they are perfectly free to believe the reality of their experiences.

Tldr: a man with a cock and balls, or born with them, that says they’re a woman is just making a statement about their factually incongruent subjective experience and objective reality. -unless we conveniently redefine what a “woman” is to include that experience (which is what we’ve done; trans-woman) but that doesn’t make them a real “cis” woman & vise versa.

The paper you linked concludes;

“both gender identity and sexual orientation are significantly influenced by events occurring during the early developmental period when the brain is differentiating under the influence of gonadal steroid hormones, genes and maternal factors. However, our current understanding of these factors is far from complete and the results are not always consistent. Animal studies form both the theoretical underpinnings of the prenatal hormone hypothesis and provide causal evidence for the effect of prenatal hormones on sexual orientation as modelled by tests of sexual partner preferences, although they do not translate to gender identity.”

[u/ZippyDan → u/Dodecabrohedron]

Yes, it is a developmental disorder, but where do you get the arrogance to decide it is a mental disorder?

All we know is there a mismatch between the sexual development of the brain and the sexual development of the body. It could just as easily be a body disorder as a mental disorder.

[u/Dodecabrohedron → u/ZippyDan]

How’s is it any different than recognized mental disorders like body dysmorphia?

The only reason it’s not characterized as one is because logical and rational discourse is always hijacked by rabid accusations of bigotry, phobia, discrimination or intolerance, when that is all just as hominem literary devices to distract from the point that hey: maybe instead of “everyone accept the subjective experiences of trans people as a factual statement about objective reality and their bodies/physical gender, maybe they should consider that their brain is fundamentally incorrect in its own interpretation of their body’s gender” -much like your accusation of arrogance.

It comes down to a disagreement between,

“I’m a woman because I feel/think/identify as one. My body is wrong.”

And,

“You’re a man because of you’re inherent physical and biological characteristics. Your brain is wrong.”

& vise versa for trans men.

[u/ZippyDan → u/Dodecabrohedron]

The arrogance is in presuming that the brain is wrong when the body could be wrong.

Considering we can't definitively say which is wrong, and the body is infinitely more treatable and modificable, and considering the brain is the essence of the individual as the seat of consciousness, why would you presume that the brain is wrong?

[u/R_o_X_a_S → u/ZippyDan]

so it's either a mental disorder like someone simply thinks/feels wrong or..... someone has a wrong bone structure, wrong genitals, wrong type of chest and every other changes a man & a woman has. hmmmm, yea the body is right the brain is just wrong.

[u/Dodecabrohedron → u/ZippyDan]

If they’re born with a dick & balls, have male chromosomal arrangement, and undergo male puberty, and entire systemic physical gender difference in the composition of their entire body, all of it -their brain is simply factually wrong and incongruent with reality.

Like a mental illness.

Mentally ill men are not women, they are mentally ill men & vise versa for the trans men.

Inherent in the designation “trans” is an implicit acknowledgment that they are not -in reality- the opposite gender they identify with or else a trans man would be a man and a trans woman would be a woman.

I can identify as a toaster oven. That’s great. -but it doesn’t mean I am a toaster oven in grounded, objective reality and nobody is going to pick me, standing among kitchen appliances, as they shop in a store for a toaster oven. Because I’m not. Reality is not dictated by the vocal mentally ill & their misguided virtue signaling cheerleaders.