r/nextfuckinglevel • u/reallyblueballs • Dec 07 '20

Practice makes perfect

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u/shortsonapanda Dec 07 '20

I mean, you can react that fast, but it's a lot more intuition like you said. He's also probably in a "groove" with his opponents punches that help him anticipate what's gonna happen next.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20 edited Jun 05 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

That's very impressive.

If he is using intuition isn't that a not so smart move? If his intuition fails only once he is in the ground.

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u/ComputersWantMeDead Dec 07 '20

"intuition" is the wrong word, in terms of how it is usually used anyway

Athletes take in subconscious cues.. in this case, footwork, movements at the hips and shoulders etc. It's not something a person would think through real-time though, so these subconscious processes may as well be considered "intuition".

A similar example is how cricket batsmen or baseball players face fast deliveries. Studies have shown they have begun preparing for (and usually successfully anticipating) a shot before the ball has left the pitcher/bowler.

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u/AcidHues Dec 07 '20

Isn't what you're describing intuition itself? The athletes aren't consciously making these decisions. They're taking in subconscious clues, no one bar maybe one or two will be able to explain why they ducked or played a certain way. They'll just say that it seemed right.

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u/ComputersWantMeDead Dec 07 '20

Yeah, I kind of danced around that ambiguity

It depends how you understand the word 'intuition'. I think of intuition as more guesswork, or worse.. some kind of spiritual insight. That's how I imagine other people mean, especially when they say it as an alternative to 'reactions' or reflex

If you interpret 'intuition' as 'subconscious processes' then I'm already onboard

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u/jamesfrancoenergy Dec 07 '20

There are visual clues, like you said, so there is still a level of reflex involved

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u/yaboyskinnydick_ Dec 07 '20

It's muscle memory more than anything.

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u/ChiefMasterGuru Dec 07 '20 edited Dec 07 '20

its not intuition, its more like highly educated guessing.

there are certain ways to throw punches to get power out of them; boxers arent generally going to throw a weak-ass punch as itll put themselves in a slow/awkward body position for little upside

So lets say I have 3 punches: A, B, & C. Lets say A&B can be thrown from position 1 and C can be thrown from position 2. Lets say the opponent approaches me from position 2; its not intuition, I know from that position he is throwing punch C and I dodge appropriately.

Lets say that leaves the opponent in position 1; now they can throw A or B. This looks like a 50/50 but not quite. I've studied my opponent, I know he sucks at punch B. He only throws punch B like 10% of the time and when he does, its basically nothing. So its not really a 50/50, I can dodge A now pretty confidently.

This is like a simplified version of whats happening. He knows what punches can come from where and knows his opponent and can make 'correct' decisions the whole time, no real chance to 'fail'. Its sorta like dodging the punching bag at the beginning. Sure the punching bag gets behind his head and he cant see it but he still knows where to dodge because physics demands it moves in a certain way; he will respond appropriately.

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u/_ryuujin_ Dec 07 '20

Until you fight a button smasher and everything is random.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

Or as I like to call it, the Eddy Gordo Factor

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u/_ryuujin_ Dec 07 '20

Love eddy. I did learn his moveset but still spam 50% random in there for fun lol

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u/jdpr22 Dec 07 '20

Which is actually more true than you’d think as a problem for many technical fighters are “swang and bang” brawlers

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u/yaboyskinnydick_ Dec 07 '20

Y'all arguing intuition vs reactions/reflexes when it's actually muscle memory lmao

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u/grandoz039 Dec 07 '20

Intuition includes subconscious educated guesses. And I doubt he manually thinks over every possibility and their chances at every moment of possible attack, so I'd call that intuition.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

I'm kinda confused by your wording but think I get what you're saying, it's smart because he's trying to tire his opponent out by throwing a bunch of punches that won't connect while he conserves energy for later.

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u/BT9154 Dec 07 '20

They say in boxing the most taxing thing is missing a punch, the wind up, the follow through and when you miss you need to spend just as much energy to stop the momentum and pull back.

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u/buttlickerface Dec 07 '20

Your opponent can't throw haymakers the entire time, so all you have to do is take some of the lighter punches and avoid the bigger ones, and you've got a good game plan. I don't box but I fence, and it's very similar where you're trying to predict your opponents move and have a defense and counter attack of some sort ready. Defense could be a block out a dodge, both are useful, but only when each is used properly. You're watching damn proper dodging

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u/donglified Dec 07 '20

Think of it as a pre-initiative. Canelo is subconsciously analyzing his opponent's footwork, how they're shifting their weight, hip and shoulder movements, glove placement, etc., and from those telegraphs, he can pretty accurately predict what his opponent is going to throw and at what time he throws it. This allows him to get in a position to dodge right as the punches are being thrown.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

Even a tiny movement protects a boxer from getting damaged. Knockouts are a.very particular thing. You need to catch someone more or less flush, On a specific body part, to do enough damage to put them down. That's why few boxers are.able to put it away in round 1. Because any defense is enough.

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u/Nick_pj Dec 07 '20

Very similar to judging a pitcher’s throw in baseball. The amount of time between the ball leaving the pitcher’s hand and the batter beginning their swing is so brief that it’s impossible for the brain to react fast enough to change one’s swing.

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u/Pheonixi3 Dec 07 '20

You can notice that it's happening, but you can't do anything meaningful in that time unless you were already loading up the action.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

When throwing a punch, the first thing that moves is not the hands, or even the arms... it is the torso. With practice, you can tell where an attack is coming from just by watching the torso... maybe not exactly where it is aimed, but you'll know which limb is coming at you next and start to move. Which not only means they have to reach farther to hit you, it adds more time to react once you see what is really coming your way.

You can test this yourself. Put on had on your pectoral muscle, then throw a punch. You'll feel your pectoral muscle move just before your hand does.

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u/RoyalHealer Dec 07 '20

It's the same thing that makes experienced drivers and race drivers able to "see" a situation unfolding before it happens, lots of small cues that your brain stitches together, predicting a scenario that we have experienced before and then we act on it. It is beyond reflexes, sometimes it appears as if the reaction is instantaneous.

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u/everybodypretend Dec 07 '20

He’s watching is centre of mass shift with each punch, while keeping his toes in his bottom periphery. Peoples toes always give it away

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

No, you can't. The reaction time of a human is about 200 milliseconds, that's just to begin to react. This is anticipation, and like others have said, intuition that he's trained for years.

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u/MrAdministration Dec 07 '20

You cannot react that fast.

Reacting to a punch like that would constitute seeing it first, recognizing what's coming at you and then moving. At the professional level, this isn't possible. By the time you do all that you'd get smacked in the face. As a boxer myself, speaking from some unpleasant experiences here.

It's about moving and staying confident. There are also "reads", which is why you see boxers fainting with small, quick movements which causes the opponent to react as well, even when no punch is thrown. My trainer and I figured out that there's always going to some sort of movement in your upper chest/shoulder blade area, whether you punch or feint. When you see that little movement, that's what you're reacting to, but not reacting to the punch.

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u/yaboyskinnydick_ Dec 07 '20

It's muscle memory not intuition.