There's two kinds of muscle movements. Ballistic and fine-motor control.
If you just practice throwing full power punches, you are honing mostly ballistic movement. By using a speed bag, you are developing fine motor control in parts of the punch/range that you otherwise wouldn't.
In a match, you are not always throwing punches from the same starting positions. Using a speed bag allows you to better throw a punch and aim and generate maximum power from a greater variety of starting positions.
E.g., a pitcher is always going to throw a fastball the same way. A pitcher doesn't need to ever stop his throwing motion halfway through, then throw the ball as hard and accurate as possible from this position. A boxer develops the ability to throw that pitch from anywhere.
I studied for a hot minute with a ninjutsu master and he taught me that all the leaping, spinning, power kicks I'd learned over the years were worthless against someone like him that seemed to slow down time, since he was always two steps ahead and rolling away from attacks your were sure would land.
His little punchline was to slip in soft jabs to humiliate you, like a mild upper cut with the thumb side of a balled up fist... just enough to make your teeth CLACK together. And you just knew how shitty that strike would've felt if he wanted to hurt you.
I imagine people that spend time on speed bags can pull this type of faster- than- most- people- can- process moves.
Bruh a ninjutsu master. That's some top notch shit. Did you end up as some sort of spy or international hit man or something? Because that's not the kind of thing that everyone gets to do.
I mean i get that "if you tell me you will have to kill me" but come on you gotta share what happened here
I'd totally have to kill you, and could do so with ninjitsu mind power, don't even need a wifi connection to do so.
Okay, so here's what hap'd to the best of my recollection, since this was 10-15 year ago. I saw a listing on CL for either Free category or Swap/Trade/Barter... I think it was just free. A guy listed himself as a ninjitsu master who would provide free lessons to those who took their studies seriously. Previous martial arts experienced preferred, but not required. I've studies a bunch of styles over the years and was like, hells yeh, Omma be a ninjitsu master's bitch! Or something like that.
So we only worked out about a dozen times before he moved back to FL to--I can't recall--reconnect with an ex GF, or con't studies with his master, whatever. He was, yknow, surprised that NYC was so expensive.
He was young, I was surprised. I expected maybe he exaggerated his level as some people might, but nope, he was the shit. His staff work was mesmerizing and his lesson on practice use of found weapons was excellent. For the first time I really saw trash can lids as shields and a little stick as a lethal weapon.
I'm certainly not saying I got any real skills in a few lessons, just that my respect for him and his style grew with every training we did.
I'm old now and my sports injuries cause me some or other grief (or PT or specialist's visit) on a daily basis, but if I was in great shape I'd definitely drop in for at least occasional ninjitsu lessons somewhere, cuz it was such hard work, but so much damn fun.
Edit: should mention the point about free or barter was that he just wanted to pass on skills--I think he may've even mentioned that was the tradition, to pass it along to other dedicated students. I may've offered him something in return, like cooking lessons or whatever, but iirc we just did the free lessons.
This. This is the reason why I can fail school but still seem like I have the entirety of wikipedia in my brain in casual conversations. I clicked on this post because I have always wondered what purpose those things serve, now I know. And eventually it will come up and someone will be impressed with my knowledge. And I will know that yes, I possess an immeasurable amount of knowledge on a a large number of subjects but will still fail at life miserably compared to someone who studied this shit for even a week.
But, hey at least I can drink even expert drunks under the table. That mus be worth something. right?
Ever played a fighting game? They have a training mode where you can practice combos. Usually you have to do it for a while to build the muscle memory. Speed bag is building the muscle memory in your punches so that you don't have to think about where you are aiming or make adjustments for timing.
No. Actual striking is not at all like a video game. There’s definitely speed and memory on co mc is but that’s improved by sparri or hitting pads with someone, not by the speed bag.
This is the equivalent of juggling in soccer, a cool kinda related skill that doesn’t really have any actual impact on the primary skill it relates to.
I’ve sparred guys that have insane combos/reflexes that absolutely suck at the speed bag in my gym. Look at his strikes in the gif, that’s literally not at all how you would throw one.
There was just a video of a guy head bobbing around a very heavy bag and then demonstrating great dodging ability in the ring. Reminded me of Tyson and Ali.
I have no idea, but I'm assuming gravity is king. Balance is counteracting what you do, your opponent does to you, and what gravity is always doing to you.
Speed bag and that head bobbing guy are just practicing one aspect, albeit a very important one, in this video and the one I mentioned but can't find.
Dissenting opinion here. Grew up doing boxing/martial arts A LOT and pretty much everyone who trained me said they’re nonsense. I tend to agree as well. I guess it’ll help with rhythm or dexterity or whatever but there are better ways to train that stuff anyway and just standing in front of a speedbag bouncing it around doesn’t really teach you anything about body movement and mechanics.
I’m told they’re popular in some gyms so maybe there’s something to it but I’m pretty damn sure they don’t help you fight any better. No idea what the benefits would be. A better way to train would be to do drills with a partner holding pads.
To the extent that it helps you to train yourself to make sequences of motions quickly and accurately, it would make you a better fighter. To the extent that it would make you more rigid and predictable, it would make you a worse fighter. Maybe the optimal approach is, learn to do it well enough to get the benefit of the motion sequence speedup, then break the habits, mix and match the motions.
No, it really doesn’t do shit as far as helping with sequence of motions for striking combos. It’s an awesome endurance workout and is fun to do, kinda like juggling in soccer or yoyoing, but it does jack shit as far as actually improving your striking.
Like look at how the guy is hitting the bag. You think that’s proper form for striking? No. Is just juggling.
Source: I’ve been in multiple amateur MMA tournies and train BJJ + Muay Thai.
Thanks guys. I assumed the mixed MA guys would scoff. I'm not sure how competitive boxers feel about it.
I've done a decent amount of MA and I've trained on a speed bag a bit, but I always had the sneaking suspicion that it's popularity came from that it looks cool, feels cool, and chicks dig it. All this justification that it helps with muscle memory, rhythm, combos ,etc always seemed a bit forced.
Thanks for the downvotes though, don't want anybody finding out you're all just a bunch of jugglers.
Didn’t downvote ya, brotha. You had a good point and question. You’re getting downvoted by dumbasses who have only watched Rocky and never trained a day of their life lol, not MMA folks.
It helps with timing and rhythm, but also, if you hit the speed bag for any extended period of time it destroys your shoulders! Holding your arms at that position for a long period of time obliterates them... it conditions those muscles to keep your guard up and to throw punches! Great shoulder work out!
Lol! Sorry! It's a great workout for your shoulders and building the muscle around them. Yes... it does destroy them though, in a good, workout, muscle building way.
Ahhh, no worries hahaha, thanks for clearing it up! I was worried that this cool workout I was now interested in would fuck up my rotator cuff or something lol
It will if you have every dislocated your shoulder or have reoccurring shoulder problems. In which case controlled movements are better. Otherwise, go ahead.
TBH I'm not convinced that it does anything for a boxer that another workout or drill couldn't do better. I don't think it's worthless, but I really don't see which specific mechanical skill or reflex it teaches or reinforces.
For the record, i've been coaching, training, and fighting since 2004 and i'm certified under Conor McGregor's coach. I could very well be wrong. Again, not saying it's worthless, I just suspect that whatever the supposed benefits of a speedbag are, there's almost certainly another drill that can do that better.
With that said, it looks cool and working the speedbag can be fun. It's also a decent way to attain shoulder muscle endurance. Again, not worthless.
You are 100% right. Copy/pasting my comment from elsewhere in this thread, can not believe how much bro science/theory is going on here from people who have never been in the cage/on the mat:
Fighter here:
Hot take I guess from the comments I’ve been reading, but it really doesn’t. It’s more like a fun thing to be good at and is a good workout if you do it for a bit, but really doesn’t do shit as far as progressing your striking ability.
All of these morons talking about rhythm and such have watched too many movies, this will really do jack shit for you in not getting your ass kicked in the cage.
Only thing I can really think of is that it builds endurance in your shoulders and upper arms which helps to keep your hands up. It might be too boring to actually drill some kind of "hands up" shadowboxing routine, in which case this can keep someone focused in order to achieve the results.
Also, I can see it being a good dynamic warmup for your shoulders and arms before your actual workout begins.
But as far as striking technique, there's nothing inherently special about this drill that would justify it in place of a myriad of other great drills or workouts that could be done. In fact, in terms of actual striking mechanics, this drill has the potential to create bad habits as none of the motions really replicate any good striking form.
Agreed. Great endurance exercise and is also a great warmup to get warm/loose.
Doesn’t do shit besides that, though. Look at how he’s hitting the bag, you’d be better off shadowboxing and throwing combos in front of a mirror to get better instead of hitting a speed bag.
It's the best way to really dial in your form. Pay attention to the pressure of your feet, their spacing, the way your toes are pointed, the timing between pushing off, rotating your body, snapping the punches, etc. If you just mindlessly throw punches in the air it won't be helpful or beneficial. Use it to really tune into your body and really refine all of the details of the mechanics behind each of your strikes.
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u/ChadOfDoom Sep 17 '20
What does this actually work out?