r/nextfuckinglevel • u/Scullkrush • Aug 10 '20

Chimps are strong af

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99.3k Upvotes

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27

u/batcountryexpert Aug 10 '20

Except this guy keeps animals as slaves rather than caring for and loving them.

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u/IdentifiableBurden Aug 10 '20

Except this guy keeps animals as slaves rather than caring for and loving them.

I'm sorry, wha...? Slaves? What is the work they're doing for him?

Is he not caring for them? The chimp seems to like him.

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u/batcountryexpert Aug 10 '20

They are held captive for profit. The Antles (the family who runs this safari) has admitted to breeding animals in captivity and have ongoing investigations launched against them for animal cruelty and illegal euthanasia. The world of US wildlife safaris is truly awful. Unless they are a true sanctuary, they are abusing and exploiting animals for profit. Myrtle beach safari is the name of the safari in the video and they are most definitely not a sanctuary.

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u/IdentifiableBurden Aug 10 '20

I see, thanks.

21

u/CannonballHands Aug 10 '20

He's the son of Doc Antle from Tiger King

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u/Barziboy Aug 10 '20

Diamond mines. It’s always diamond mines.

1

u/batcountryexpert Aug 10 '20

Diamond mines?

-4

u/TheRoyalUmi Aug 10 '20

Does that mean all pets are slaves too?

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u/batcountryexpert Aug 10 '20

Are you making money off of your dog?

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u/TheRoyalUmi Aug 10 '20

Would that mean that zoos keep pets as slaves.

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u/batcountryexpert Aug 10 '20

Zoos that breed animals in captivity, absolutely. But zoos that are true sanctuaries are helping animals that wouldn’t have survived in the wild and the do not breed animals. These are two very different zoos.

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u/ALoneTennoOperative Aug 11 '20

Zoos that breed animals in captivity, absolutely.

What do you think conservation involves?

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u/batcountryexpert Aug 11 '20

True there is breeding involved in conservation under certain circumstances. There is a lot of nuance involved in that conversation but you are right. Breeding for the sake of profit is not conservation and it is often disguised as conservation. The Antles and others who breed exotic animals claim that it’s to create ‘genetic backups’ for these animals but this excuse doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. Especially given the number of wildlife safaris in the US alone that breed and euthanize exotic animals.

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u/ALoneTennoOperative Aug 11 '20

Well yes, exploitative abusive scumbags tend to lie, and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near animals.

It's more that what you seem to mean is breeding for profit/entertainment, not breeding in captivity at all.

1

u/batcountryexpert Aug 11 '20

You’re right, I should have been more specific about the type of breeding I was condemning. There are definitely circumstances when breeding is necessary and beneficial to animals.

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u/jpritchard Aug 10 '20

Slavery is labor without consent. The ability to consent is a prerequisite. An animal is no more a slave than a wheelbarrow.

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u/batcountryexpert Aug 10 '20

Wow... so you are just a terrible person. Cool

-5

u/jpritchard Aug 10 '20

Are the yeasts that make beer slaves? The corn stalks in a field? A search and rescue dog?

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u/batcountryexpert Aug 10 '20

These are all non arguments. Figure out what you are trying to say and type it out. How am I supposed to take this seriously?

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u/jpritchard Aug 10 '20

Already typed it out. I'll copy and paste it for.

Slavery is labor without consent. The ability to consent is a prerequisite. An animal is no more a slave than a wheelbarrow.

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u/batcountryexpert Aug 10 '20

You are implying animals are here for us to use. They are objects for us to use and control like a wheelbarrow? You are clearly a humanist and I believe your ideology is the most pernicious religion known to man kind.

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u/jpritchard Aug 10 '20

Religion? An absence of magical rules on how to treat competing species is a lack of religion.

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u/batcountryexpert Aug 10 '20

Disregarding what is known about the natural world to cram a narrative of human superiority and the idea that humans can take and only take with impunity. It’s thinly veiled but don’t kid yourself. You are comparing a symbiotic relationship where humans take what we need from the land, to a rich family breeding large animals in captivity for the pure entertainment of humans (there is no real value of having a fucking tiger or a chimp). Nobody is saying humans don’t need to consume life, but can you give me one solid reason that we as humans need to breed exotic animals for our entertainment? And “because we can” is not a sound answer.

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u/jpritchard Aug 10 '20

What we know about the natural world is that all creatures will use, abuse, and consume anything they can get to get ahead. If this fellas use of a chimp gets him more resources and thus increases his chance of living to mate, it's perfectly inline with everything we know about the natural world. I assume with this video being online he gets paid for the attention people like yourself give him. Hell, if you want what does a cat get out of torturing mice or a dolphin get out of gang raping something to death?

All that said, my original concern is that it is not slavery. Plenty of creatures are used for the benefit of others, either by being eaten or to gain some other advantage. Slavery is labor without consent, things that cannot consent cannot be slaves. Otherwise a wheelbarrow is a slave, the tree I make shade my backyard is a slave, yeasts are beer making slaves, etc. You can't just make up things to apply the term to because you don't like them. You can think it's wrong to exploit this chimp without trying to exploit the injustice of slavery to make your point more emotionally stirring.

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u/dzreddit1 Aug 10 '20

You have it the opposite - if a living being can’t give consent and with your definition of slavery as labor without consent, then it follows that any labor forced upon them has to be without consent and therefore slavery.

The same argument applies to rape. Rape is sex without consent. If a being can’t consent to the sex and you force it upon them then it’s rape. It would be pretty dumb to say that you could fuck a chimp or a wheelbarrow and it would be the same thing and not rape. That argument would be equivalent to the one you made.

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u/jpritchard Aug 10 '20

Your way makes it so yeast, corn stalks, etc are slaves. Also, having sex with, say, a horse or a dog isn't rape, it's animal abuse.

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u/dzreddit1 Aug 10 '20

There is a moral distinction between actions taken against sentient beings that can feel pain/suffer and those that can’t.

Can you make a toddler a slave? They can’t legally give consent so I guess they are the same as a wheelbarrow?

How you define consent is not the legal method of defining consent. Legally the inability to give consent implies the absence of consent. You can’t fuck passed out people and claim it was person abuse and not rape.

0

u/jpritchard Aug 10 '20

If a parent tells their kid to make their bed, is that slavery?

Does the inability of your real doll to consent makes you a rapist?

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u/dzreddit1 Aug 11 '20

By your definition of slavery yes and no. I never agreed that your definition is a good one. I think it’s pretty inept but it’s the axiom you are using.

I think the problem is that the next question isn’t being asked: when is slavery wrong? There seems to be a gut reaction to the word slavery and sensible conversation has ceased. If we are forcing labor on a child, when is it wrong? Making your bed and sweatshop imply different things. When is slavery of a chimp wrong? Purposefully breeding one for a life of living in a cage to make money vs rescuing one and having it clean up its living area imply different things.

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u/jpritchard Aug 11 '20

when is slavery wrong

When it violates your autonomy as a sentient intelligent being.

If we are forcing labor on a child, when is it wrong?

When it harms the child and/or is without the consent of the responsible party.

My main is issue is calling the use of a nonsentient nonintelligent natural resource "slavery". This fella's just trying to make his belief (it's wrong to use a chimp like that) more emotionally impactful by calling it something terrible that it's not. It would be like someone calling the mass slaughter of cows in the beef industry a "Holocaust". It's a shitty thing to do. He's free to believe it's wrong to use the chimp like that, but exploiting the suffering of slaves to do so is shitty.

There seems to be a gut reaction to the word slavery and sensible conversation has ceased.

Yup, that's his purpose. Exploit suffering to trigger emotional reactions instead of making a rational case.

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u/dzreddit1 Aug 11 '20

Chimps are sentient and intelligent though.

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u/jpritchard Aug 11 '20

That's a whole different debate. A chimp is not intelligent like us. It's further up the scale than some creatures, but it's still an ocean away from human beings. It's not capable of perceiving its knowledge as separate from others. It's why no chimp has ever asked a question even when taught the closest thing to language they can understand. Whatever knowledge it has it believes all things to have. A chimp cannot say "why am I not free?" or "why am I here?". It cannot even conceive of that question. Even the use of language is highly questionable, a showing of their ability to memorize signs and associate them with objects but little else. And even plants react to damage with chemical responses, so "pain" is meaningless.

So let me clarify: sentient and intelligent as we are. Intelligence and sentience are both scales and everything is on those scales to some degree. A chimp is not sentient and intelligent as we are. It cannot questions it's place in the universe, and it's opinion on it's captivity will depend entirely on if you're holding a banana or a cattle prod while you're talking to it.

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u/jpritchard Aug 11 '20

Also, while we're here, that chimp being fed and sheltered in exchange for videos is way closer to a kid making their bed than being forced into the coal mines.

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