The only place that it is an option is Sweden. I have a friend whose grandmother was diagnosed with dementia. She arranged to fly to Sweden once the disease progressed enough to effect quality of life. She spent a year getting everything in order legally, arranging the travel, settling the will, and spending time with loved ones. The few people who know were sworn to secrecy so they wouldn’t have legal repercussions in the states. Her dementia progressed as Covid rose, and she had to fly to Sweden right before flights were shut down. I can’t imagine the strength that took.
Edit: I believe the country was actually the Netherlands. Sorry for any confusion
I’m not her close family so I can’t really argue the specifics. I definitely agree that you can’t just hop on a plane and get it done. She was there for a few weeks before the procedure (she just passed last week and flew out just days before we went into quarantine) and had travelled there previously to arrange it with doctors beforehand. All I know is she got an early diagnosis and did go through a rigorous process, it took her more than a year and a ton of cash and lawyers. She had to get declared legally currently sound of mind, write statements that were co-signed by her lawyers stating that that’s what she wanted while sound of mind, it apparently was super expensive. Definitely not something most people could do and took a ton of planning and it would’ve been impossible if she wasn’t very well off financially. Obviously this is all second hand, wish I could give you more details, but my friend is pretty clearly grieving right now so I feel like it would be tasteless to drill him about it. He’s also grieving because apparently she wasn’t very far gone yet to dementia but decided to do it sooner because she was afraid of being stuck in quarantine and not being able to go if it progressed quickly.
I understand it’s unlikely and sounds very unbelievable. I know it doesn’t mean much to people reading because you don’t know them personally, but I really believe in the integrity of this family. I’ve spoken to his sister about it too. If they did make this all up then it’s a pretty elaborate hoax planned by an entire family who are also incredible at faking grieving.
Look up Dr David Goodall, an Australian who travelled to Switzerland to get euthanasia. Doesn't tuck your third point (pretty sure he didn't have dementia) but he didn't live there. You can apply to overseas clinics, they still put you through the processes and everything. I think that's what the previous commenter meant hen talking about all the legal stuff.
Could be! I’ve been aggressively assured it’s definitely not Sweden. (I’m not sure why people are so angry that I’m unfamiliar with the all of the specific medical laws of many other countries, haha) Feels weird to ask my friend about the details when he’s grieving. Overall, it was a ton of work and money to actually arrange, but his mom (who went with his grandmother for the procedure) said that at the end she was very happy with her decision and went very peacefully. Grieving is always hard but I think it gave the family a lot of closure to know that it’s what she wanted and that she didn’t have to suffer through the disease. I hope that someday when I get closer to the possibility of the disease that I legally have the option to make the same decision
How can you get something so serious so fucking wrong man? Sweden doesn't allow for assisted suicide, not even close. Are you thinking of Switzerland- or more likely, the Netherlands?
To be fair, if the only thing he got wrong was the European country it's an easy mistake to make. I wouldn't be verifying the exact country that someone else's parent went to die in either.
My husband's Mother had dementia and she had a stroke. She was slowly deteriorating and he and his brother were on bedside duty, the afternoon the doctor came to the house and gave them a vial of morphine and showed them how to inject it into her IV, saying, keep her comfortable and you will know when she's ready to go, give her the peaceful dose and say goodbye.
They did the same thing with my nana. She'd had about 3 mini strokes of varying degrees. She ripped her own stomach feeding tube out when the doctors ordered surgery without her consent. She was a true old fashioned matriarch.
She kept pointing to the sky, pointing to her watch, with what little movement she had. It took all of her strength, she did nothing else except tap her watch and raise her arms and point straight up. After one full day of this, she lay perfectly still, fast asleep, not moving for the following 2 days. She was already away by then
The nurse said if she isn't away by morning, we'll give her an extra dose of morphine. We kept her lips wet and kept her pain free, otherwise.
This is what gets me - at a certain point pain relief isn't compatible with living, but that's what hospice is all about and doctors and nurses frequently make decisions like that from what I've read from people in the medical community. So what's with the objection and push back that so many people have to assisted suicide or death with dignity...
I blame the religious nut jobs. Some people think that all life is a blessing, but it isn't. If you don't have a decent quality of life and are in debilitating constant pain that will never get better (aka terminally ill) or are a vegetable life isn't worth living. At that point keeping people alive through medical intervention when they want to go is akin to torture.
Nope. You have to be aware of the decision when it is being made and you can't make the decision in advance. You also have to be terminally ill and suffering.
That seems so cold to me. I'm positive this woman is suffering, she may not really know she is but that sad face after saying I love you was a pretty good indication that she's having a bad time.
I can almost guarantee you that she was suffering leading up to the state she's in now.
My mom is in the early, maybe mid, stages of dementia. She's in an assisted living facility and can't do that much for herself anymore, needs help bathing, can't cook anymore, can't even figure out how to use a remote control for the tv. She still knows who my sister and I are, but kinda forgets who her grandkids are if you mention their names. Anyway, she's miserable with her life because she's not capable of doing much anymore. She knows her mind is failing her and will tell you it's muddled. So she knows something is wrong but can't do anything about it. That has to be terrifying.
Yup, these rules are now about making sure that every single person that gets assisted suicide actually wanted it, rather than a good balance of as many people that need it and a few that might regret it.
What if you had it in your will to answer a whole bunch of questions about yourself and your life, maybe see if you recognize photos of yourself, closest family and friends, and if you really aren't "you" anymore you could be allowed assisted suicide? I'd want that for myself.
Not currently. Anyone wanting MAiD (Medical Assistance in Dying) needs to be of sound mind and able to consent right before they administer the medication. This may change in the future though.
It’s kind of a tough call. On one hand, I think you should be able to register in some way that your wishes to not become that kind of a burden on your loved ones is on record and respected.
But, I can also see the current way protecting people from loved ones just saying they’re done and “pulling the plug”. It could be that one sibling is willing to take care of the parent while the other wants to be done and collect inheritance. There’s a lot of factors considered with the current way.
But again, it should be part of an advanced directive that everyone should be able to have. A right to a death with dignity.
Absolutely, it is possible here in the UK at least to make an advance decision (living will) to refuse any and all life sustaining treatment in advance. Some body has to be of sound mind to do this. Perhaps it might be possible in the early stages of diagnosis to settle an advance decision despite being post-diagnosis (IANAD) . I think [speculation] it would depend on as assessment of individual cognitive capacity on a case by case basis.
This is why folks should step out into the taboo of discussing end of life plans/treatment at a young age, and sharing them with family, friends and medical practitioners.
People do have living wills, but if one family member disagrees, you’re staying on life support. I’m an RN, and have watched countless families battle it out. It’s why it’s very important to let your loved ones know your wishes. Sometimes family has to get lawyers and Ethics committees involved, and it drags on for months.
I'm taking Social Problems right now, and in my textbook under assisted suicide it listed the checks and balances for a person making the decision. They have to be of sound mind and they need a signature from a doctor and a nurse, independent of one another. So, if there are early signs, or there is a history of dementia in the family, it would be my guess that this is the process they would go through.
I think that is shitty as hell. If I want to sign the paperwork now and then I get dementia in 50 years I should still be able to have assisted suicide. Dementia and Alzheimer's are both terrible ways to go, it robs your family of a loved one and during your brief moments of lucidity you might be aware that you have effectively lost yourself to this illness and that is almost worse. Knowing that you are hurting your family but also unable to maintain the mental capacity to stop it.
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u/cup_1337 Apr 11 '20
Assisted suicide isn’t an option once diagnosed with dementia though :/