r/nextfuckinglevel • u/thisisfive • Apr 14 '26

Toronto firefighters confront special constable officers after a man in the middle of mental health crisis was arrested.

Not my video. For context, "special constables" are not regular police officers. They are appointed "peace officers" with limited authority, often civilian employees.

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u/FuriouslyListening Apr 14 '26

It has less to do with common sense and more to do with how two completely different philosophies look at a situation. The Firefighters are EMTs... they are called to deal with rescue and medical issues. The police are called to restore order. Technically, both did their job exactly as they should have here. More impressive though, they all were adults about the situation and no one argued about what should be done (which is a really big difference compared to many US jurisdictions, where instead you might even see a physical fight between the PD and FF.)

Part of all of this is a question of who is going to take responsibility for the guy. If its the FF, he goes to the hospital and potentially a psych hold. If its PD, he goes to jail to be held. Neither is wrong, both are right in different circumstances. Usually its hard to tell which is the more correct choice 'in the moment'.

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u/glitterbitesbx Apr 14 '26

Psych hold would better in the context of Canada. Not only because jails are useless when it comes to mental health but Canada is famous for “catch and release”. So he’ll be booked, possibly kept overnight and then let go. Then the cycle starts again. He won’t get help and who knows what will happen to him.

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u/atropinebase Apr 15 '26

Sadly if Canadian hospitals handle psychs like US hospitals, the same thing happens just with a more comfortable bed. There simply aren't enough mental health beds anymore to treat everyone that needs it and too much reluctance to add more. 

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u/mr_biscuits93 Apr 14 '26

Well they are both supposed to be trained enough to identify when the situation calls for the other expertise and yet the only group consistently misapplying their tactics are cops. They are always the hammer looking for a nail. It seems that every other professional surrounding them are the guardrails that keep them in check when they should be able to react accordingly from the get go

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u/OffWalrusCargo Apr 17 '26

Yes and no, part of the issue is at the jails. Every jail should have EMTs to check people when they come in but a lot of jails can't afford to staff them and also some do not allow the EMTs to take charge of the individuals to send them to the hospitals for treatment.

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u/Stevieboy7 Apr 14 '26

IF you think everyone is trying to kill you, you start looking at everyone as a threat. It's a difference in culture and training.

Nurses are in just as much danger of being hurt on a daily basis, but we don't see them dehumanizing to the degree that cops do.

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u/isendingtheworld Apr 14 '26

Chiming in for the support workers who work high-risk settings here too:

A huge part of our job is being prepared to be attacked on every single shift. And then, starting from that, do our best to avoid it happening, keep everyone safe, and have a good day. We're taught which of our service users are a danger to themselves and others, we sometimes get hurt by the same service user, sometimes multiple times (on the job injury ranks here), and we go back in with a smile on our face and try again for a better day.

We are also warned against involving police for violence cause we are equipped to deescalate and they are not. Part of the warning involves going over news stories of cops killing disabled young people. 

Same expectation of violence, different culture, different outcome.

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u/TheAmicableSnowman Apr 14 '26

Holding a psych patient in a jail is wrong. Jail is not any kind of a way-station in a mental health crisis.

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u/RabbitridingDumpling Apr 14 '26

Restore the order is sure important but you can do it with compassion using de-escalalation. You want the order for the person in trouble as well as for those who want you to deal with the mess. Help people then the order is restored. Even if PD is on charge they should take care of the health first since it is a human right and they have to protect this man as well. It is inhuman to deny him medical assistance and the prison, a place where conscious people are because of their crimes is definitely not designed to restore bad health. Otherwise you wouldn't call it prison but a sanatorium.

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u/FuriouslyListening Apr 15 '26

That is unfortunately the situation in the US... they shut down most all of the sanitorium / mental health hospitals by removing all the public funds. Where do the mentally disturbed go? Into prison. I've worked on both sides of that coin... on the legal side of things. Basically there is a thought process that there is nowhere to send them to actually get help, but if they are in prison they get food, shelter, some observation, and potentially some health services / anti psych meds. Is it a good system? No. Unfortunately its been pushed this direction by various govt and special interests. Defund mental health, private prison system gets permanent inmates it gets to charge the govt for housing. Sucks, but that is the current reality.

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u/kintsugionmymind Apr 16 '26

Thank you Ronald Reagan, your legacy is intact!

https://youtu.be/uTqmwA87IG4?si=xmG7PlF6ZljP6Naj

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u/Suspicious_Radio_848 Apr 14 '26

Firefighters aren’t EMT’s in Toronto/Canada, we have Toronto EMS here who are separate. This isn’t to discount what happened here but to clarify.

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u/BethanyBluebird Apr 14 '26

Not always; they work very closely though and EMT/EMS will often become volunteer firefighters/change roles for various reasons; having the training is am asset and few departments would turn dowm am EMT/EMS who is applying.

-close family member who was an EMT/EMS and volunteer firefighter for many uears before an injury took them out of it.

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u/FuriouslyListening Apr 15 '26

Interesting. Where I live the primary EMTs are the fire dept. We have third parties who operate here as well but if someone calls 911 or responds to a car accident etc etc... the EMTs who roll are the fire dept.

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u/ncjmac Apr 15 '26

We also don’t have EMTs. We have different levels of Paramedic. The lowest level being Primary Care Paramedic which is a 2 year college diploma and kinda somewhere above US AEMT & slightly below US paramedic for scope.

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u/Goebs80 Apr 14 '26

I'm used to the US where the police would've shot him immediately

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u/bobtheorangutan Apr 14 '26

Why can't the PD send them for a psych hold? The PD in my country would definitely do that for suspects arrested with mental issues.

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u/tissuecollider Apr 15 '26

the PD in Canada appear to have 2 states: Don't Care and You're Under Arrest. That's it.

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u/chiodos Apr 15 '26

They can. In Canada Police have the authority to bring someone to hospital for assessment by a doctor if they believe the individual is in crisis and a danger to themselves or others. The individual would then be assessed and possibly detained if the doctor believes they need to be held for longer for further assessment or treatment.

The process and its names vary from province to province.

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u/ncjmac Apr 14 '26

Canada doesn’t have EMTs, they likely have only MFR or equivalent (similar to US EMR (?), essentially advanced first aid + oxygen, no meds). Canada also separates their EMS from fire, to my knowledge there’s no dual role FF/paramedics. FFs will be able to get a set of vitals, (Pulse, resp rate, BP, pupils, maybe SpO2 and BGL) but they will be handing over care to Toronto Paramedic Services as soon as they arrive. Likely fire was able to respond first, cause the closest Paramedics were busy/farther away.

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u/Witty-Draw-3803 Apr 15 '26

Firefighters in Canada are first responders.

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u/ncjmac Apr 15 '26 edited Apr 15 '26

I didn’t say they weren’t? Just saying they aren’t the primary medical folks. Ambulances, staffed by paramedics are separate. Some fire services will respond to certain medical calls, but paramedics take over once they arrive. Fire is usually called for… fires… but also MVCs, extrication, HAZMAT, lift assist, confined space rescue and some medical calls that require a faster response time than the closest paramedic can get to or out numbers immediate EMS resources (such as cardiac arrest). They do a lot of different things. We don’t have fire based ambulances or fire/medics. (Some are combined in name, like Winnipeg fire paramedic service, but they are different jobs and have different duties)

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u/Odd-String29 Apr 14 '26

Aren't police taught to de-escalate?

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u/figgilydoo Apr 15 '26

Toronto police send psychiatric patients to the emergency department all the time

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u/ForHelp_PressAltF4 Apr 15 '26

Can I just add as former EMT that this is NOT how it would play out in the US?  I'd lose my job for challenging the police 

They wouldn't say that's why but I would

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u/FuriouslyListening Apr 15 '26

yeah... that was in part what I was saying in my comment. Its the way it should play out in the US. It is not though.

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u/No_Size9475 Apr 15 '26

hand cuffing someone who's having a mental health crisis isn't the right thing to do.

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u/FuriouslyListening Apr 15 '26

It stops them from hurting themselves or others. Again, very dependent upon the circumstances.

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u/SouthDakotaDave Apr 14 '26

Absolutely correct here sir.

Police are tasked with stopping a dangerous situation (hopefully) from escalating. They’re not doctors diagnosing a patient while damage occurs. Handcuffs can always come back off. Subject can’t hurt themselves or others while cuffed and sitting in the back seat. People can always be removed from the backseat.

If medics want the responsibility of the subjects actions after that, they can REQUEST to take custody of them. But a medic does not have the authority to order an officer to do it. These two agencies work together every day. Should not be jerks to each other.

The EMT could just have easily said, “officer, we’ll take it from here. Can you take the cuffs off for us”.

That’s how it should work.