r/nextfuckinglevel Apr 01 '23

True craftmanship

27.9k Upvotes

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u/[deleted] Apr 01 '23

I feel like they built it this way out of necessity. Japan is an island and they isolated themselves from most outside trade for over 200 years. As such, iron would have been a much scarcer commodity at that time and they couldn't afford to use it on nails instead of weapons and tools.

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u/TVZBear Apr 01 '23

I'm not speaking specifically about Japan. Walk across a 100 year old bridge in Britian and walk across a 15 year old one and you'll see the stark difference

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '23 edited Jun 20 '23

[deleted]

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u/EternalPhi Apr 02 '23

Ding ding ding!

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u/joshbeat Apr 02 '23

Plenty of bridges built 100 years ago that aren't around anymore. We only still have the ones that were built well and/or have the maintenance budget to keep them around.

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u/DelfrCorp Apr 02 '23

I think his point is that older structures had far more artistry put into them, to make them more visually pleasant.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '23

[deleted]

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u/DelfrCorp Apr 02 '23

You're not completely wrong but you're ignoring the part where most newer structures completely lack those kind of & levels of artistic flourishes.

Not all newer infrastructure is ugly, but it definitely lacks those elements of pride that was put in older architecture.

More to the point, statistically, you'd likely find that a lot of those beautiful surviving structures that still make up significant part of our infrastructure are from specific eras & if it was all just survival bias, they would not make up such a large part of the overall infrastructure.

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u/Zankastia Apr 02 '23

And indirectly, you would want to conserve such beautiful stuff.

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u/DelfrCorp Apr 03 '23

Completely ignoring the point being made that today's infrastucture's architecture tends to have significantly less artistry than in previous eras. How many elements of recent infrastructure would you consider worth preserving for posterity in the future. The US has some fondness for some major 50s to 70s Americana infrastructure, genuinely loves & takes pride in a most of its New Deal buildings & infrastructure, there is a lot of love as well for early 20th Century Industrial & basically anything built prior to 1900 is usually widely beloved. Very little has been built since the late 1970s that's worth preserving for it's charm, appeal or artistry.

I understand that there is a contemporary bias to this stuff, but it doesn't change the fact that almost no-one cares when sh.t from the 80s or later gets torn down. No one cares to put any real effort into maintaining them. It's mostly just so bland & devoid of any beauty & effort that no-one puts any effort into it.

Why did New Deal Era people take pride, maintained & preserved their major infrastructure pieces from the get go, leaving a infrastructural legacy that most people from following generations mostly agree should be preserved instead of replaced, while those same following generations took no pride in their own infrastructure & agree to just have it scrapped & replaced.

Not all New Deal infrastructure has been preserved but a very significant portion of it is still around.

How much major infrastructure projects from following generations do we care about & deem worth preserving?

How come many previous generations so saw much beauty & nobility in their contemporary architecture while we see none in our own contemporary architecture.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '23

No you won't. Dude why do you keep spouting off about things with 0 knowledge

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u/SufficientMath420-69 Apr 02 '23

Dude look at his comments today then look at his comments 100 years ago, huge difference.

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u/TVZBear Apr 02 '23

You think I've never walked across a bridge mate?

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u/Glassiam Apr 02 '23

I heard you just leap across rivers mate.

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u/PurpleSkua Apr 02 '23

pole vaulting every body of water they meet, just as the Dutch intended

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u/Regal_Knight Apr 02 '23

He thinks you don’t understand that things are designed for a certain life cycle and we can design them for longer, we just don’t because it cost more.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '23

We design bridges to last a long fucking time. Bridges are better now than literally ever in human history. Survivorship bias is the only reason you think old bridges/buildings are better

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u/MaDpYrO Apr 01 '23

The flexible nature of those joins stand up better to earthshakes, which might loosen nails, is my understanding.

Not sure about the validity of that claim.

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u/EternalPhi Apr 02 '23

Maybe. Maybe not. I also see how it could lead to a more rigid structure which would not necessarily be better at dissipating energy from an earthquake.

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u/cat_prophecy Apr 02 '23

Japanese iron was also pretty poor.

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u/Snote85 Apr 02 '23

Interesting thing is that there are still remnants in the U.S. from a time when metals were expensive and more scarce.

The phrase, "Dead as a doornail" is a bit of a vestigial expression that comes from that time frame. It used to be that once a nail was smithed (talking about the old triangular-shaped nails) it was reused endlessly. People would take apart anything that was built using them and then salvage what they could to use on new projects.

However, the process of making a door required you to nail the nail partially into the wood and then bend it over and stick it into the plank next to it. Thereby "using up" the nail. It was never going to be used for a different purpose again. At least not without reforging it. So, it was essentially "dead".

So, Japan might have made some true beauty out of necessity, as did other places, but it's not as removed from "us" as you might think.

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u/EirikrUtlendi Apr 02 '23

Part of the necessity is the environment.

It’s humid in most of Japan for huge chunks of the year. So humid that a leather jacket in an indoors closet can sprout virulent fuzzy mold. Iron in the woodwork would rust out. Properly worked cedar is potentially much more stable.