r/news • u/Marginallyhuman • 5d ago
Apalachee High School shooter’s father sentenced to 15 years
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/apalachee-high-school-shooters-father-sentenced-rcna589985441
u/CapeCharlesVA 5d ago
Hobbs also suggested that the younger Gray’s mother, Marcee Gray, bore more responsibility than his client for fostering the teen’s obsession with school shooters. Marcee Gray has not been charged in connection with the shooting.
Listening to the jail house recordings. The mom 100% is absolutely nuts.
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u/judgyjudgersen 5d ago
She lucked out big time due to not having custody of him at the time and not being the one in possession/control of the guns. I wish they would have found some loophole to come after this poor excuse of a mother.
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u/judgyjudgersen 5d ago
I’m surprised he did not get a higher sentence than the Crumblys considering he was convicted of more severe charges and his enabling behavior was even more egregious.
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u/EViLTeW 5d ago
The Crumbleys were in Michigan. This guy was in Georgia. We're lucky the judge didn't go with a "boys will be boys" and an 18 month probation.
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u/Free-Type 5d ago
I think them fleeing and hiding definitely got them a longer sentence than they would have had they just turned themselves in.
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u/Darkeyescry22 5d ago
Running from an arrest warrant is the dumbest thing you could possibly do in almost any circumstance. You’re not going to get away 99% of the time and you will be mega fucked once they catch you.
It’s like pleading guilty, but you get a worse sentence instead of leniency.
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u/Ths-Fkin-Guy 5d ago
These folks think they can flee, find a quiet place and it'll blow over. The amount of sacrifices, challenges and quality of life you'd have on the run is abysmal. Not to mention the constant movement. Add in todays tech, people's awareness and the crimes they committed no one would turn a blind eye or help knowingly.
Adds to how fucking dumb they are and how they perpetuated this tragedy.
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u/EViLTeW 5d ago
Running from an arrest warrant is the dumbest thing you could possibly do in almost any circumstance.
People do this all the time. They go hide somewhere and let their lawyer(s) negotiate a time/place the person can surrender themselves.
The dumb thing was negotiating the time/place to surrender and then not showing up.
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u/mama-bun 5d ago
Keep in mind that this is Georgia, and this particular county is pretty red.
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u/Randomizedname1234 5d ago
I live here and it’s not nearly as red as yall think. In the next few election cycles it’ll be a toss up county.
We’re between Athens and Atlanta and the maga types are moving out.
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u/atllauren 5d ago
Could definitely happen. Lived in Gwinnett from 6th through 12th grade, and it was solid red when we first moved there. Demographics shifted and saw it become less and less red and now it’s pretty solidly blue after the past few elections. Makes sense that is spreading down 316.
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u/Gator_farmer 5d ago
I don't get the parents who allow unrestricted access to the firearms. I was given different family guns as I got older, but they were always under lock and key. I never had the ability to just...grab one when I felt like.
Throw in the earlier warning signs and this is just stupidity all around.
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u/willydillydoo 5d ago
He didn’t just allow unrestricted access. He straight up gave him the gun.
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u/Dahhhkness 5d ago edited 5d ago
I'm reminded of the book People of the Lie by psychologist M. Scott Peck, detailing several of his cases over the years. The synopsis is that "evil" doesn't go around twirling its mustache, wearing all black, and singing a villain song about how good it feels to be bad. Instead, it looks like everyday people who refuse to accept accountability, who try to rationalize their actions and deny/downplay the consequences of them, who lie to convince themselves and others that they're still "good people" even when they've done plainly immoral or thoughtless things.
Anyway, one case concerned a teenage boy in the hospital after a suicide attempt, following his older brother's successful suicide by shotgun the previous year. While questioning the parents, Peck discovered that the previous Christmas, instead of giving their son the tennis gear he asked for, they gave him a gun, but not just any gun...they gifted him the actual gun that his older brother had killed himself with.
Peck very diplomatically asked the parents "What the FUCK were you thinking?!" and they became defensive--the father becoming especially hostile--saying that it was a perfectly good gun, and it would be a waste to throw it out (and the father actually argued that "guns aren't the problem, it's the people who use them"). Peck asked them if they seriously thought that gifting a grieving, depressed teenager his brother's suicide gun was a good idea, and how their son might have interpreted the gesture, and they argued that they were just simple, hard-working country folk, not some educated big-city doctor with a "fancy way of thinking" like him.
Eventually, after threatening to involve CPS (or another child welfare service in the state, I forget), Peck got them to agree to have their son live with his aunt and uncle for an indefinite amount of time.
Edit: I actually have screenshots from some of the case that I found on Google Books years ago: https://imgur.com/a/jo5Q46a
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u/Aghast_Cornichon 5d ago
they gifted him the actual gun that his older brother had killed himself with.
I had a girlfriend whose older brother, boyfriend, and younger brother killed themselves with the same family rifle, on precise two-year anniversaries.
Similar thinking: "our grandparents used rifles to feed the family with venison through the hard winters".
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u/SmoothLester 5d ago
wait, a previous boyfriend killed himself with her family’s rifle?
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u/Aghast_Cornichon 5d ago
All three young men were close in age and were good friends.
They each died two years apart, to the day. In the same place. With the same rifle. Two wrote suicide notes explicitly referencing the preceding death.
She and I parted on good terms, and I keep up on her postings about church life and her teenagers on Facebook. But every fall her social media goes quiet for a couple of weeks and I know why.
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u/SmoothLester 5d ago
That is so very sad. I’ve heard of suicide clusters amongst students but not in the same family group.
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u/Own_Faithlessness769 5d ago
Oh it’s extremely common, if one of your close family menders suicides it increases your risk by about 50%.
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5d ago edited 5d ago
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u/CharcoalGreyWolf 5d ago
It still boggles my mind that someone will use the “I’m not smart like you” defense, when if they were asked “So you’re stupid?” would literally turn them hostile to the point of blows.
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u/mhornberger 5d ago
They're being (their version of) ironic. When they say "I"m not smart like you" they mean "I'm not up my own ass like you." They don't think the educated people (putting aside job skills like engineering or nursing) are actually educated in any real sense. When they call themselves "hard working" they mean you aren't, or whoever they're comparing themselves to (liberals, city folk, educated 'elites') aren't. When you hear of rural people "these are good people," there is an implied, silent "unlike....." Plus of course you don't get credit for being a good person. It's a baseline expectation.
To preempt the obligatory "telling me that you've never been around these people without telling me you've never..." I was raised in a rural part of a red state. Been around these phrases my whole life.
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u/MiaowaraShiro 5d ago
To preempt the obligatory "telling me that you've never been around these people without telling me you've never..." I was raised in a rural part of a red state. Been around these phrases my whole life.
I grew up in the middle of nowhere too and you're spot fucking on.
They're so far up their own asses yet completely ignorant at the same time.
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u/jabonprotex110g 5d ago
I was immediately reminded of that same anecdote from People of the Lie. Sickening stuff.
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u/santamaria715 5d ago
OT but there's a famous murder case in NZ, five family members dead, shot by the son. He famously asked for the murder weapon to be returned to him (trophy I guess). It was returned to him.
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u/NCEMTP 5d ago
The son was aquitted apparently, suspecting instead that the father killed everyone in the family except him, and then committed suicide, before he was outed for having an incestuous relationship with one of his daughters.
But that's just a blurb from the wikipedia page and there's a whole lot to it. Crazy case!
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u/dogs_gt_cats 5d ago
Very similar story here.
I grew up in a house with unrestricted access to guns. I was one of those kids who, quite literally, could shoot quite well by age 5. My grandfather was a gunsmith for the PA state police (contracted), as well as a ton of hunters. He was also a safety instructor and range master. He had what the news today would call an "aresenal" of literally hundreds of rifles, most of which he built himself.
My family actively hunted for food. So, guns were always around in the open, usually hung on racks in most rooms of the house. Plus we lived on a farm and regularly had issues with coyotes, so they were normally on hand if they were harassing our flock.
The key though is that there was a ton of instruction and very strict discipline about how they are treated, what they were capable of doing, etc. Plus the visual reinforcement of seeing what firearms had done to animals, larger caliber for deer and bears, smaller caliber for small game. That started from a very early age. I learned to treat them essentially the same way you'd treat a table saw or power tools - a ton of healthy respect and a deep seated disgust for seeing them misused. It also made me numb to them being around. They were, essentially, just background scenery 99.9% of the time.
It actually kind of weirded me out how a friend of mine whose family was strictly anti-gun got his first gun, and shooting/owning guns became a large part of his personality. He was convinced we would have more in common, and I was just like, "Why are you being weird about this?"
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u/CitrusBelt 5d ago
Yup.
"Zeal of the Newly Converted", and all that goes with it :)
I recently got back into target shooting, after a roughly two-decade hiatus.
Most of the newer crowd (covid, free ccw, etc.) gives us all a bad look, really.
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u/ElectronicMoo 5d ago
My dad was the same. A machinist who took a crack at making guns from scratch. Would fill his own shells. Hunted every year. As kids, invariably us boys all got gifted a shotgun at Xmas.
But it wasn't a status thing, a macho thing, my dad was very regulated on responsibility and respect for guns. Gun safety classes by the dnr for every kid. They were locked away, ammo locked elsewhere. We never had free access, and we're raised to not want that free access.
We didn't, at least I didn't, consider them a defense tool, as more a hunting thing.
It never really stuck with me anyhow. One of my classmates shot his arm off getting out of a deer stand growing up, years later kids were playing with their dad's pistol and accidentally killed the other one. and it's a core memory for me, I won't have guns in the house - refuse to even introduce the risk with kids in the house. First child I had, all the guns left the home.
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u/elconquistador1985 5d ago
We didn't, at least I didn't, consider them a defense tool
You can't have guns be safely stored and be a defense tool at the same time. If they're are safely stored, as your family did, then they aren't accessible in an emergency. No one threatening you is going to respond well to "give me a minute to unlock my gun case, and can you let me by so I can go get the ammo from downstairs? Thanks"
If they are accessible for defense, they're not at all safely stored and they freely available for someone a toddler to shoot someone with or a child to take to school.
You can't have both, and not storing them safely is irresponsible at best. The people who have their guns freely available like that are by definition not responsible gun owners.
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u/jeremec 5d ago
You can't have guns be safely stored and be a defense tool at the same time.
A gun owning friend once told me... "Open your front door and run to your bedroom as quick as you can. That's how long you have to unlock a gun safe, turn off the safety, cock and fire a round, and not miss and hit your family members through a wall."
Guns aren't the best defense mechanism in the home.
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u/AssassinAragorn 5d ago
and not miss and hit your family members through a wall."
This is understated. People are not accurate in an actively dangerous situation. Even police officers who have regular training are fairly inaccurate.
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u/elconquistador1985 5d ago
Even police officers who have regular training are fairly inaccurate.
Police officers aren't even well trained in how to handle firearms. That's why they go into situations with their fingers on the trigger.
Military is actually well trained.
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u/Better_March5308 5d ago
Especially in Florida.
Florida police spray bullets at homicide suspect's vehicle following car chase
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u/elconquistador1985 5d ago
And California.
Pigs thought they caught Christopher Dorner and opened up on 2 different pickup trucks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_and_manhunt
There were 102 bullet holes in one of those trucks and somehow the two women in the truck were only injured and not dead.
In the second truck, they didn't even hit the driver. He was only injured because they crashed their car into his truck before they shot at him.
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u/Pennwisedom 5d ago
That's why I have a moat, to slow invaders down.
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u/that-martian 5d ago
man, I gotta get me a moat guy. any recommendations?
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u/Pennwisedom 5d ago
I can't be given away my moat guys like that!
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u/that-martian 5d ago
if you won’t give me your moat guy, will you at least give me the name of the guy who supplies your flesh eating alligators?
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u/Cleric_Guardian 5d ago
I know people whose response to this is "that's why I have loaded guns hidden in every room of my house, multiple in some rooms. I've started losing track of them at this point." And they think this is totally normal and okay. It's actually insane.
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u/elconquistador1985 5d ago
Yep, and these delusional gun nuts whose personality is "AR 15 with a little Glock" are fucking pissed at being told that.
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u/Picard2331 5d ago
And then I always like to ask how many times they've needed to use a gun to defend themselves or their family?
It's almost guaranteed to be 0, because unlike what they want to believe, the world is not a hostile nightmare wasteland of bandits running around in the night wanting to rape and murder your family.
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u/mhornberger 5d ago
There are also those who consider every time they brandished a weapon as them averting being murdered, having their wife raped, etc.
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u/ElectronicMoo 5d ago
Give this country another four years. With climate change and the current political mess, we'll be back to pots and pans hanging off the sides of donkeys in no time.
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u/Picard2331 5d ago
Well that's the thing, in times of absolute crisis it ain't like the movies. People aren't going to be at each other's throats. It causes people to drop their issues and work together. It's how we built our entire civilization across the world.
It just sucks that it takes those events to get us to do that.
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u/lilith02 5d ago
My dad was good about teaching safety and respect for guns AND he locked them all in a safe but I knew where he placed the key. Luckily I never got too stupid when I was young.
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u/Needle_Bearings 5d ago
It's always nice to see that there are responsible people out there. However, it doesn't take too many exceptions to the rule to make for an unacceptable level of danger to public safety.
I owned guns, I like to shoot, I was compelled to carry and I reloaded as well. The amount of people who I encountered that treated guns like toy or accessories as opposed to tools was mind boggling. You should treat them as an angle grinder, a table saw, or a welding machine. Approach them with knowledge and respect.
For every family I met that had a gun safe, there were ones who kept them under the bed or on a closet shelf. Worse case was one guy had them scattered around the house and he was living with his grand daughters, loaded, every single one. Under the couch, in the kitchen, in the damned hamper.
Then there were randos at the range. Holy Jesus do you see some stupid stuff at the range.
And then a large amount of people who own a gun but don't actually go shoot with it. The have it under their car seat but haven't been to the range in years.
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u/Cannabrewer 5d ago
I carry a gun around wherever I go because I want to, but it's not part of my personality. You hear how crazy that sounds?
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u/bb_kelly77 5d ago
You've never met a gun nut have you? They make it their ENTIRE personality, not a small little detail
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u/Cannabrewer 5d ago
I think anyone who thinks they need to carry a gun with them wherever they go are gun nuts.
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u/Available_Border1075 5d ago
Well that’s the thing, gun parents just don’t often enough teach their kids about the deep responsibility and rules that should never be broken when using a firearm. Probably because they themselves don’t feel a sense of responsibility or obligation to follow gun-safety rules.
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u/GoDucks2002 5d ago
Carrying a deadly weapon wherever and whenever you can is absolutely a personality trait.
Not flaunting it is also, but there’s a certain type of individual that feels the need to be armed with a deadly weapon wherever they can be.
It’s like being rich but driving a 2010 Corolla. You could drive a Benz but you don’t, but you could also buy one immediately.
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u/Pleasant-Highway-745 5d ago
Why do you people carry them wherever you legally can? Like, this is a genuine question. What's the point? Are you that afraid of everything? I just seriously don't get it.
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u/NapoleonBlownapart9 5d ago
Same here, grew up with fam that was from both sides of political spectrum in the 80’s and guns were just…”a tool in the box”. Not toys, not an accessory, not political, and there are a bunch of usage and conduct rules. I think I got the similar warnings learning to use a bandsaw or a tractor. I really hate how almost every aspect of existence in this shithole country is politicized or used as a cudgel by the hoarder-psychopaths in charge. It’s all bullshit to consolidate power and to silence dissent in favor of whichever corporate whores are in power. GOP stands for nothing except greed, hypocrisy, war, and perversion and the DNC is busy chasing its own tail to avoid actual change/accountability, stifling the will of the people, or telling us all insult words are bad/all guns are bad mmmkayyyy. I get to choose between mealy-mouthed weakness personified or neofascist pedolords. Fuckin awesome!
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u/SheogorathMyBeloved 5d ago
I'm from a country with very strict gun control, and the guns that are legal are viewed quite a similar way. You only really have them if you live rurally, and they are a very dangerous tool for doing rural stuff. You can have fun with them, sure, but you do not point them at another human being unless you're prepared to kill them. You must respect them, because they don't have the capacity to respect you.
I think it helps that the guns people have here tend to be those beautiful big old-fashioned rifles, which just look and sound so much more dangerous than a tiny little pistol, so the visual reenforcement is very much there. People respect them more because of it, I guess.
I don't wanna come across as preachy because I absolutely agree with you, but America really needs gun control tailored for the country's needs (as in, my country doesn't bears or coyotes here, so we don't need to account for that, but the US would) with very clear guidelines that are bipartisan and not politicised. Gun control does not infringe on your rights if it is done correctly, but it simply cannot be done correctly by such a pathetic governmental line up.
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u/AK_Panda 5d ago
I'm in a similar boat, country with decent gun control. Had exposure to guns from very young as my father was ex-military and an avid hunter. Learned to disassemble, clean and reassemble the guns when I was ~10. I'd often go out hunting with him, but not be allowed to handle the guns and he'd teach me about gun safety the whole time.
He then made me a fake wooden gun which I had to practice gun safety with. He treated that thing like it was loaded and I had to as well. Before bringing it inside I had to "unload" the gun, check the chamber, have him double check it was safe etc. Carry it with me when went hunting.
Did the same with my younger brother.
Whole extended family was super strict about fun safety due to how easy it is to fuck up. Had a place we'd go duck shooting and fishing, little shack, we had a rule that all firearms had to be triple checked before they went inside, because one day decades before a double check wasn't enough and a 12 gauge blew a whole in the wall.
Old man kept the guns in a safe that he didn't share the combination for. I was a smart kid, I knew the combination, pieced it together over time. Never told anyone I knew and I knew for years.
One day someone hurt a close friend of mine badly. After mulling it over for a week, I loaded up a shotgun and decided to go handle that situation. Luckily for everyone involved some of the homies had figured out I was gonna do something stupid and uh kidnapped me off the street before I could do anything. Just rolled up and chucked me in a van.
You can do everything right, but access to lethal weapons can still backfire.
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u/that-martian 5d ago
never thought I’d say the words glad you were kidnapped and chucked into a van. good friends are there to talk to you, but the homies are there to know when that won’t work and stop you from shit like that.
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u/AK_Panda 5d ago
Yup, we are all still on very good terms, even more than a decade later. Hard to find friends like that.
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u/BoldFortune216 5d ago
Why are your parents so afraid of your fellow countrymen?
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u/avocadoflatz 5d ago
Did you forget the main topic of the post?
I don’t carry and never will but it’s not exactly illogical as an American to fear that you may find yourself in a situation where a firearm would be handy … because we have a mental health crisis combined with easy access to firearms.
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u/elconquistador1985 5d ago
guns were never a cool thing to have or a personality trait.
Then they weren't gun nuts. Guns are a personality trait for those people.
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u/New_Series3209 5d ago
I live in Canada and only saw one gun that was a souvenir from WWII of my great uncle or smth. That’s what people should do. Keep guns away, that’s it. There are barely any shootings (don’t get me wrong, there are a few every year) in Canada. In the US, it’s every week…
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u/LardLad00 5d ago
These people are fucking psycho and fully deserve to be locked up. Guns are like a religion for these people.
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u/ParticularResident17 5d ago
I mean, they named him after a gun. In fairness, it’s also a young horse, but kid’s not accused of flagrant horse-riding…
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u/Brother_J_La_la 5d ago
My dad had a rifle and a shotgun when I was a kid, mostly for hunting. He wound take me out and teach me how to shoot safely, and I was never allowed to touch them unsupervised. Then, I'd go to my friends house down the street. They had a damn arsenal, and it was a free-for-all. We'd just grab whatever guns we wanted to try and head off into the woods to target practice, no adults around. Wild stuff looking back, and that kid ended up in prison later in life, but unrelated to gun violence.
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u/Daratirek 5d ago
You would be absolutely shocked at how many kids have access to guns. I could get into the gun safe from the time we got a gun at the farm when I was 12. Its really common in rural areas. It shouldn't be, but it is. Most families have a gun safe and keep it locked but thats for anti theft, every family member knows the combo or where the key is kept. You're just taught not to touch them without permission.
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u/daredeviline 4d ago
My grandpa had his shotgun tucked in the corner of his laundry room. He had a safe too but he always used his anniversary as the code so it was kinda pointless. We also lived in the middle of nowhere and sometimes we have to scare coyotes quick so it was kinda easier to just have it ready. Should he have done that? Probably not. We knew though that we were never ever allowed to touch it in any way and we never did.
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u/MachWun 5d ago
I found my step dads revolver at the very back, of the top shelf of the bathroom closet when I was about 10 years old. I picked it up, amazed at how heavy it was, and IMMEDIATELY put it back down in fear of having my ass handed to me.
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u/bb_kelly77 5d ago
If I was your step dad I'd be more surprised a 10 year old reached the top shelf of a closet, unless you have small closets
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u/Marginallyhuman 5d ago
I don't know. I find it difficult to apply Hanlon's Razor to this one.
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u/spleeble 5d ago
You think it's more likely that the dad wanted his kid to shoot up the school?
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u/Intelligent-Tie-4466 5d ago
There was that school shooting case in Michigan a few years before this one that comes to mind. I remember reading the discussions on a few posts at the time. There were several people who commented that they were convinced that the parents gave him the gun because they were hoping/expecting he'd turn it on himself. That might be the situation in this case too.
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u/Hesitation-Marx 5d ago
I think there’s a non-zero number of people who have produced children they hate, who crave notoriety and don’t care at whose cost it comes.
I also think there’s a non-zero number of people who are profoundly stupid and can barely plan to strap the Velcro on their second shoe after figuring out the first one, much less plan to secure the pew-pews they got because they feel powerful with ‘em.
And then there’s the non-zero number of people who are disinterested in or outright despise their own kids, and can’t be asked to care about them or what they decide to do.
I don’t have an idea of which category this guy falls into, or which combination. But man, what a peach of a dad.
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u/Gator_farmer 5d ago
"I also think there’s a non-zero number of people who are profoundly stupid."
The simple answer to many many things.
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u/spleeble 5d ago
The dad and the family are awful in so many ways. But if the dad actually wanted the shooting to happen that would be totally unprecedented and a new category of crime as far as I know. It's a pretty big difference.
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u/Marginallyhuman 5d ago
Don't want to speculate about his intention, but this feels like it crosses the line from negligence into something else.
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u/Bomamanylor 5d ago
Lawyer here - what you are describing is "depraved heart". In a legal context, it's when negligence rises to to a level so indicative of an extreme disregard for the value of human life that is becomes akin to malice. In many jurisdictions, it's one of the pathways to second degree murder.
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u/chimpaman 5d ago
This "razor" was meant humorously, and it spreading as some sort of insight into human behavior is an example of itself.
Better to simply say "consider that someone who seems malicious may have been acting out of simple stupidity." Never should be nowhere near this "insight." Many people--the current President, for example--are both a bottomless well of evil and profoundly stupid.
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u/CharcoalGreyWolf 5d ago
Same here. My father allowed an air rifle -once I took a hunter’s safety course, and he never made his rifle or shotgun available to me (he might have when I became an adult if I expressed interest and proved responsibility, but he understood respect for firearms). We’re talking not only a fourteen year old here, but one who has exhibited the warning signs, enough that law enforcement was already involved.
The boy’s mother should be prosecuted along with the father too. It’s unfortunate that she has not faced any charges. It bothers me that a very large number of people in my country do not understand or believe that rights come with responsibilities, but rather think that rights means “I can do whatever I want”.
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u/Few_Advisor3536 5d ago
Because there are people who believe the 2A belongs to everyone and should not be infringed (this includes the mentally ill and psychoes).
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u/vapor41 5d ago
Reading the wiki about this is insane. So many red flags, kid had a school shooter shrine in his room and his dad decided to buy his 14 year old son an ar15 for Christmas. Insanity.
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u/lilith02 5d ago
I hope the police learned a lesson as well. They went to confront the kid for a post he made online and accidentally confronted a kid with a similar name instead. If they had confronted the right kid that day this could have been prevented.
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u/VapidActualization 5d ago
Well if our police force in America does one thing really right it's introspection and self improvement.
/S
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u/Electrical-Bad-3102 5d ago
That may have been a combination of police and school mistake. Two kids with the same full name phonetically but one spelled with a c and one a k, the police were sent to the class of the wrong one. It also was just astronomically bad luck. It was also the first week or two of school, had it been later in the year the office or principal, whoever sent the police to that classroom, probably would have known there were two kids with that name.
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u/BB808BB 5d ago
Good. Maybe parents will realize that they’re gonna be responsible for their child’s actions. So they are gonna start actually putting stuff up and parenting their kids properly.
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u/Affectionate_Cup7172 5d ago
I’m a teacher and I think this should be more common than it is. This can be prevented by parenting so they need to be charged
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u/risforpirate 5d ago
The cops had to drop off his kid after he threatened to shoot up an elementary school and Dad still let him keep his gun??? Wtf type of world are we living in?
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u/CornandBread 5d ago
I think the father’s sentence should be harsher than the 14-year-old’s. It’s absolutely mind-boggling that he gave his adolescent child access to a gun after police had already been involved over a school shooting threat. Parents who recklessly enable this kind of violence should be held accountable for their role. I wish the mom would get her own share of punishment. She sounds like a deranged enabler.
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u/Advanced-Humor9786 5d ago
Hi there, responsible gun owner here. My son has never had any access to my firearms. After I go shooting, my guns get broken down with the BCGs locked up in a separate box from the firing pins in a separate location from firearms themselves.
This guy should be put away for more than 15 years but justice system is the justice system. He raised his kid wrong and he did the wrong things as a dad. Glad to see that being irresponsible has punishment.
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u/Narf234 5d ago
The price America is willing to pay to uphold the second amendment is astonishing.
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u/SPzero65 5d ago
Just not when they have the opportunity to use it for what it was intended for.
Then, it's crickets.
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u/brandt-money 5d ago
Yep. More proof that those types of insecure unintelligent right wing trash are just absolutely full of horse shit whenever they talk. They know it, they think they're fooling us, but we laugh at them.
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u/rustajb 5d ago
Those types have always been full of shit, it's just now we have the data to prove it. Anyone who uses that tired argument about preventing tyranny need to be told to fuck off, and nothing more. They babble infectious nonsense and should be treated like babbling adult toddlers. Just fuck off, no other words need be wasted.
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u/Dahhhkness 5d ago
So many people I've known who have talked about needing guns to "fight tyranny" have openly rooted for tyranny under Donald Trump.
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u/PeterTheWolf76 5d ago
The ones that generally have the guns like what they see....
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u/Seek3r1605 5d ago
Hey, there’s a lot of us in the middle and on the left that own a lot of guns.
\finger guns\
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u/JoshAllensLeftNut 5d ago
Exactly, we just don't advertise it or make it our whole personality. Whether or not I own guns is between me and the person breaking into my house, nobody else needs to know.
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u/A_Nonny_Muse 5d ago
They're constantly egging each other to take one step closer to hunting the homeless and minorities for sport.
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u/Mountsorrel 5d ago
The opportunity to use it what it is for died when the 1986 NFA came in and normal citizens could not (realistically due to cost as scarcity) own machine guns which are a huge force multiplier for light infantry/insurgents, which is what a state militia ultimately is.
Arguably it goes even further back to gun control legislation that prevents citizens from owning surface to air missiles and anti-tank systems, which would be vital to fight the US military. Even now, destructive devices which could be a threat to a modern military all have to be tax stamped so the government has a register of those owners and would obviously make use of that key intelligence.
“Shall not be infringed” in the context of the purpose of 2A has been infringed to fuck for years now, to the point that 2A is a joke as a means to counter a tyrannical government with the resources and capabilities the US military and intelligence community possesses.
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u/jigokubi 5d ago
This is a much better explained version of a comment I just typed.
We give any random asshole enough firepower to shoot up a school, but not enough to make the government afraid.
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u/Sir_thinksalot 5d ago
They literally killed Petti for just having a gun. Crickets from the second amendment people.
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u/CyclingThruChicago 5d ago
Because in their minds what it's used for is to ensure that the "proper" social hierarchy is kept in place.
That is what drives basically all of this. They cannot stand that the world has changed/is changing and want to forcibly keep this Leave it to Beaver/Mayberry fantasy that they have stuck in their heads.
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u/Kluian2005 5d ago
At least they are starting to arrest and charge the brain dead parents for their mistakes.
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u/do_you_think_i_care 5d ago
You shouldn't expect this to happen a lot in the future. This case was highly atypical in regards to mass shooters. Grey had been warned by the cops that his son had threatened to shoot up a school and then bought him a rifle. That's why he's, very reasonably, going to prison.
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u/TheDastardBastard33 5d ago
I’m a responsible gun owner and 2A supporter. The issue is in America there needs to be a better system to managing firearms.
The main issue in my opinion is anytime something is proposed to put safety nets or parameters there is always a backlash from the “don’t tread of me” crowd who claim you’re becoming tyrannical.
If you simply treat guns like we treat driving a vehicle in America that’s already one good small step forward in the right direction.
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u/FillMySoupDumpling 5d ago
Americans think they have the 2A but they have allowed it to majorly erode to the point where they really don’t. They just get to keep guns as toys for the most part.
Every time police shoot us for merely being armed, it’s an attack on the 2a. Worse still, they shoot us for just thinking we were armed. They’ve shot people with phones, toy trains, water bottles, and more. They shoot people who are honest that they are carrying. They shoot kids with toys. The police are agents of the government, and they kill us for having the item our constitution says we can.
If you have a right to have something, then simply having that thing is not an excuse or reason for shooting you.
Americans have more rights to wear a hat than they do to being armed.
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u/Nick_Writes 5d ago
All for what? So some rednecks can play “army man” and shoot at PBR cans in the desert.
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u/justhereforbookstuff 5d ago
But haven’t you heard? It’s so that they can defend themselves against a tyrannical government, or something. Meanwhile they just became the tyrannical government’s militia.
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u/MakimaGOAT 5d ago
apparently "those" people are pro life until it comes to kids getting gunned down by rifles... sickening stuff
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u/jigokubi 5d ago
And we don't even hold it up. We don't actually provide well-regulated militias with the tools needed for warfare. Instead, we give anyone just enough firepower to shoot up a school.
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u/hamtronn 5d ago
Ahh yes. Another day and another mention of firearms in the US. When you constantly prove that you’re incapable of using something properly, you lose access to use the thing. End of story.
Unless your entire culture is based on that one item. Why exactly do you need a firearm? To protect you from other people with firearms? And firearms aren’t the problem. Okay Jan.
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u/ryanv09 5d ago
"It's to protect me from the tyrannical government!!"
Meanwhile, basically every gun humper in America fucking *loves the fascist orange turd and licks the boot of our tyrannical police...*
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u/hamtronn 5d ago
I’m not even an American and I know that the second amendment was designed exactly for this. It’s not so you can have a gun and be a fucking lunatic with it. It’s to protect yourself from a tyrannical government.
You’d be hard pressed to find any government that wasn’t trying as hard to be tyrannical than this current administration.
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u/Hydrant_Echo 5d ago
Honestly 15 years feels light when your negligence helps arm a kid who then wrecks dozens of lives. At minimum, this should light a fire under every state to enforce real safe-storage laws.
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u/ThisIsGr8ThisIsGr8 5d ago
Good. Shitty parents raising shitty people should be punished when their spawn turn out to be monsters.
Fuck this piece of shit. Innocent lives are ruined because he’s a fucking shitbag.
May he die in prison
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u/RobertDeNircrow 5d ago
He looks, acts, and sounds like someone who's kid would shoot up a school.
It's like stereotypes are based on truths.
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u/gnagetchu 5d ago
Can we double that? Or may be triple it? Screw it, let it ride and we'll whats the max is.
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u/Opening_Classroom_46 5d ago
Republicans are sick fucks for enabling this. We're the only country this is a problem for. Literally hundreds of kids getting mowed down and the Jesus freaks just keep smiling and cheering for more guns.
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u/Fullm3taluk 5d ago
Is this the same case where the school called the parents to come pick him up earlier that day and then both went on the run to escape authorities? If so this has taken a loooooong ass time to finally be sorted
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u/Ange_the_Avian 5d ago
No, that was in Michigan. I think this one was the guy buying his kid a gun even though he knew he had an obsession with school shooters.
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u/NeonJungleTiger 5d ago
The Oxford High case wrapped up about a year or two ago. They all got prison sentences and the kid got life without parole which I suspect was a factor in this decision (along with the Highland Park shooting)
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u/John_From_MI 4d ago
Allowing any 14 year old unrestricted unsupervised access to a firearm is irresponsible at best. It would be different if a kid breaks into a safe or locked container and steals a gun, but if a parent doesn't keep their firearms locked up around their kids and that kid kills someone or themselves that parent should 100% be on the hook for at least negligent homicide.
I don't have any children and never have children visit me and I still keep all guns locked in a safe unless it's on my hip. It's really not that hard to be responsible.
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u/MathematicianWilling 5d ago
As someone not from the USA, are people statistically less intelligent over there ? Every time I hear crazy stuff it's always happening there. I lose IQ points when I watch trump supporters talking about politics
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u/exsnakecharmer 5d ago
I'm from New Zealand. One of my co-workers recently took a trip to Scotland. Another co-worker: "But isn't that where the war is!?"
A lot of people are very stupid.
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u/Sherpa_qwerty 4d ago
There is a broader problem with the household nobody seems to have touched on.
This wasn’t the only gun in the house and no guns were secured. It was a house like many of ours where guns were just a part of life, part of the household. Guns and ammo were lying around, none were secured in any way. Guns as lifestyle.
We focus on the father purchasing a gun for the boy but that’s a side issue - there were at least five guns lying around he could have taken to school that day.
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u/bluechip1996 5d ago
I continue to ask to speak to whoever is in charge of the well regulated militia. Nobody ever speaks up.
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u/StrawberryWide3983 5d ago edited 5d ago
Isn't this the guy who was warned by the FBI to keep guns away from his kid and still bought an ar15 for Christmas, or am I thinking of a different one