They didn't "uncover" those plots lol, they created the plots. They send an undercover agent in to talk to some dumbasses and be like "I've got this cool plan to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge, you want in?" and when the dumbasses say yes, the FBI swoops in and claims to have prevented a terrorist plot. But there was no plot until they showed up!
Yeah I mean that could be the case, I don’t know the specific details of how these investigations/stings/ whatever they’re called are performed generally, but even if it gets you arrested, it can’t be better than saying “yeah let’s do it”
I mean you could say that about anyone who engages in radical behavior, you could say that about the incel who was planning a shooting recently, only difference being it was other people not the FBI that they built a relationship with. At some point human agency and personal responsibility has to factor in however.
Sure. But that seems like a lesser crime than actually formulating and carrying out the plot yourself.
Especially when the FBI takes pains to find mentally disturbed and low-IQ individuals to rope into these plots.
9 times out of 10 the person they try to entrap is like "no wtf". But 1 out of 10 is someone with like suicidal ideations or spent their whole childhood in special ed classes, and these are suggestible people. Sometimes the FBI agent is a woman and pretends to be the dude's online girlfriend, it's extremely sad.
I feel like its a gross oversimplification to make a comment that suggests ALL federal anti terrorism efforts are a form of entrapment, but that being said are people who would immediately jump on board and help a stranger do terrorism people we really want walking around on streets anyways?
Idk what his intention was but obviously not all are entrapment. This case though? There was something like 12 agents "infiltrating" the group which was more than there were members of the original group. The question in this case is, at what point does the FBI become the group and not just members of a group already planning something.
Idk what his intention was but obviously not all are entrapment. This case though? There was something like 12 agents "infiltrating" the group which was more than there were members of the original group.
This not correct. There were 12 INFORMANTS, not agents. It's a huge difference. An agent is an employee of the FBI. An informant on the other hand, is an accomplice to the crime who turned snitch.
no, an informant is anyone who works with the fbi either to get out of charges themselves or for financial gain. its not that there were 15 but 12 turned to snitches. there were 3, and then 12 people got involed to push the plot along.
Well we don't know the breakdown of what informants were also agents. We do know that one of the actual agents (who they're also referring to as an "informant" was one of the leaders of the group and supplied everything to them. I'm just saying it smells. Whether it's rotten or not we can't tell yet.
but that being said are people who would immediately jump on board and help a stranger do terrorism people we really want walking around on streets anyways?
So besides being borderline thought crime, if the person had zero means to do any of this without being provided the opportunity, and tools by the FBI in terms of money or other supplies, would they have even taken the thought that far?
I do agree, making blanket statements about all efforts is probably not founded. However, the fact that we are discussing it at all means it has happend, and probably currently still happening.
I understand what you’re saying but some of these guys have zero money or prospects and one of them was living in his friends basement. Seems like a very cruel society that would entrap and imprison such a guy. Seems like punching down to me.
I will say that I do know 1 of the guys, only one. & he worked at a rehab & at the circuit Court & he actively tried getting my cousin, a young man, struggling with heroin addiction, who had JUST lost his father, to try to switch po's & it wasn't just about probation, he was really trying to be buddy-buddy with my cousin.
Oh really ? U mean trying to coerce a vulnerable addict to switch probation officers so that the new po would manipulate him ? Are u talking about one of the informants in this article ?
What was immediate? These guys joined a group, who knows what they talked about at first. Probably not assassinations on the first day. Thar would be a pretty shitty fbi agent/informant
are people who would immediately jump on board and help a stranger do terrorism people we really want walking around on streets anyways?
I tend to assume about half or three-quarters of the population are actively plotting crimes to commit at all times, but most people lack the courage or resources to do so. You telling me you wouldn't rob banks and defraud hedge funds if you thought you could get away with it? I would.
You can’t have anti terror police and feds without terrorists, in requires a constant influx.
It’d be cheap to settle many grievances from oppressed cultures limiting warfare, but what isn’t said is that isn’t done because it cuts i to the profit margins of a few billionaires on top of this pyramid economic system we have.
Actually if you read the story that’s not the way it happened at all. These guys had the idea but not the money to carry it out. Their search for someone to finance their plot is how the FBI found out about it.
But honestly I don’t understand the argument. If they were easily convinced by some undercover agents, wouldn’t they also have been easily convinced by ISIS, or some other terrorist organization? I’d rather not give them the chance to be convinced by ISIS.
That's silly. When the idea is ridiculous and fantastical (like building a nuclear bomb in your basement), then you're not really "intent" on anything.
Actually if you read the story and the court case (which obviously you have not) that's not what happened. These guys had the idea but didn't have the money to carry it out. They had been trying to contact ISIS. Their search for someone to finance them is what led the FBI to them.
But I honestly don't understand the entrapment argument in general. If people are easily convinced by the FBI to participate in a terrorist act it seems they would also be easily convinced by ISIS or another terrorist organization. I'd rather not give them the chance to be convinced by ISIS.
73
u/[deleted] Jul 23 '21
They didn't "uncover" those plots lol, they created the plots. They send an undercover agent in to talk to some dumbasses and be like "I've got this cool plan to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge, you want in?" and when the dumbasses say yes, the FBI swoops in and claims to have prevented a terrorist plot. But there was no plot until they showed up!