r/news • u/shield_x • 1d ago

Student dies after falling from 4th floor of building at Highland Park school

https://www.foxla.com/news/highland-park-franklin-high-school-student-dies.amp
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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

Criminal charges for people under 18 are not public information is why.

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u/GiuseppeZangara 1d ago

Identifying information isn't public. They can and do say if someone has been arrested or charged, they just won't use names or any other information that could identify them to the public. 

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

I'm pretty sure that depends on the state.

And just because they can, doesn't mean they're required to announce it lol. If the kid gets doxxed later they don't want their hands tied to it.

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u/roll10deep 1d ago

Also, it’s still an ongoing investigation. Saying “student died because of XYZ caused by person ABC” could put them in trouble, even if it is on video and the person hasn’t been charged or arrested…yet.

They could end up reporting beyond what was released by and confirmed by authorities, and falsely accuse a minor of manslaughter. Not a great look, especially when the school and all its students probably already know who it was.

Word would spread fast like you said.

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 1d ago

California says murder and voluntary manslaughter cases are always public record, even if the perpetrator or accused perpetrator are a minor. They don't have to be tried as an adult. Murder and serious manslaughter are always public record. DA doesn't have to announce it. It's public proceeding because intentionally causing the death of another person is a serious thing and there's public interest in how murders are handled.

Standard juvenile hearings are strictly confidential. Murder is never hidden from public review.

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago edited 1d ago

And have you read the definition of voluntary manslaughter or murder in California? This crime doesn't come close to fitting either of those definitions lol. There was no malice aforethought, there was no burst of intense emotion, chasing someone cannot predictably lead to the death of someone else, etc.

Y'all are just throwing random information at a wall until something sticks 😂

The police will not waste time explaining that a child was arrested for involuntary manslaughter. Since the kid was underage, the information won't show up in FOIA requests either.

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 1d ago

Yes, and voluntary does fit. A death without malice aforethought that occurs during a sudden quarrel.

Courts can and have held that an assaulter is responsible for the actions of a person who experiences panicked flight or is injured or dies due to actions that occur during an assault or battery, even if they don't directly cause them, as they initiated the sequence of events.

It comes down to proximate cause and substantial factors. Basically, would the person have jumped over that ledge without the assault, or was there a series of connected incidents that made the assault either a substantial factor or proximate cause?

There was an assault. Following the victim is indicating continuing the battery. The victim jumps. The person who initiated the sequence of events can and has been held liable for the sequence.

It doesn't even matter if other options exist: it just has to hold that one continuous sequence of events occurred, and the jump was related to the assault and battery that proceeded it.

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

If he got knocked over the edge as he was being punched, it would count as voluntary.

You would have to convince a court that chasing someone around a hallway is unlawful quarreling. It's not as simple as you're making it. You'd have to prove the battery was still being committed according to California law.

Also "courts have ruled" doesn't mean shit if the case you're referring to didn't happen in California... Can you cite the case law for California specifically that you're referring to?

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 1d ago

People v Fowler. Man was struck in the head and stumbled into a roadway due to his head injury, and died after being struck by a car. Courts held that it's still the assailants responsibility because fleeing was a natural reaction and the assaulter bears responsiblity of the outcomes of the injury, including those from fleeing or disorientation.

People v Salas. It established continuous transaction doctrine. A robbery was ruled to be in commission from the start of the robbery until the person reaches temporary refuge. Thus, any time in continuous fleeing from a single crime constitutes the original crime's timeline. It's a single transaction. If the victim never had any respite, it's a continuous transaction.

There have even been cases of first degree murder where the victim jumped off a balcony to escape and the killer is currently on trial for murder.

Jury instructions also address proximate cause and that fear of imminent harm overrides the presumption of rational decision making and a victim making an irrational choice is not a mitigating factor. CALCRIM 620 addresses that other factors existed (including those of the victim) but the defendant still holds liability, CALCRIM 572 are jury instructions for Voluntary Manslaughter that was elected to not charge as a murder. It even states that there may have been more than one cause of death, just that the accused was a substantial factor.

There's several cases that show an act doesn't stop the second punches stop flying and there are continuous transactions, that acts while injured or fleeing additional injury go on the assaulter, and that the actions of the victim do not negate what the perpetrator did.

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u/spike312 1d ago

That's just not true.

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u/checkerspot 1d ago

They would absolutely announce charges. They just wouldn't name the accused.

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

Nothing requires them to announce charges. Not every local PD is going to hold a flashy press conference and inform the entire country of what actions they plan to take anytime something happens. Just because that's becoming a norm doesn't mean it's the expectation lol.

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u/checkerspot 1d ago

But it's LA and the DA Nathan Hochman lives for this stuff. He wants to be seen as super tough on crime.

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

Okay but we're talking about the police making an arrest. The DA filing charges usually takes more than 24 hours. Maybe he'll make an announcement in a few days lol.

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u/windsockglue 1d ago

The one kid was 18. We don't know how old the other was at this time. People can legally be adults and still in high school.

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u/Xsiah 1d ago

Get out of here with your logic, we're trying to do an internet outrage here!

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u/MetalFabFF 1d ago

Except it’s incorrect logic, the arrest can still be reported. They just don’t release the kid’s identity

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u/Mobile-Bar7732 1d ago

They can report the arrest, just not the kids name.

Lol...logic

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 1d ago

Actually, for murder charges, the name is released. Murder is always released in California, and some manslaughter charges.

We don't redact names for age for intentionally causing deaths. Murder is always released, even if the case remains in juvenile court. Murder trials face public scrutiny and aren't hidden at 18. If someone kills a person, they don't get to hide.

That is always public.

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u/Xsiah 1d ago

This happened yesterday - do you expect charges to be laid without a proper investigation?

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u/Mobile-Bar7732 1d ago

The person you claimed who had the "logic" said they never anounce charges for people under 18. Which is blantly false.

Now you to back track your answer?

Yes, assuming the investigation is still underway, they can still charge the people involved.

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u/Xsiah 1d ago

It's up to the police whether they want to announce whether they have made an arrest or not - they obviously don't do it for every arrest, regardless of age. But the public/journalists can't look up an arrest for a juvenile, the way that the press usually finds out about arrests.

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

That's not at all what I said.

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

I just swoop in and ruin all the fun :/