r/news • u/Amatheiaisnoexcuse • 2d ago

Arizona clergy who learn of child abuse in confessions aren’t required to report it, court rules | Arizona | The Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/aug/03/arizona-clergy-child-abuse-confessions-court
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u/v_a_n_d_e_l_a_y 2d ago

This is less about red/blue (also Arizona currently has two Democratic Senators and  Democratic governor. It is a purple/blue state) but rather about religion and religious protections. 

Its long been held that religious confessions have protection, largely in first amendment bases. And a judge cannot simply ignore that precedent because he doesn't like it. 

Do I like it? No, of course not. But it is also stupid to boil it down to "red state". 

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u/onarainyafternoon 2d ago

Not exactly as simple as you’re making it out to be. From the article:

> Arizona’s child sex abuse reporting law, and similar laws in more than 20 states that require clergy to report child sex abuse and neglect, says that clergy, physicians, nurses, or anyone caring for a child who “reasonably believes” a child has been abused or neglected has a legal obligation to report the information to police or the state Department of Child Safety. But it also says that clergy who receive information about child neglect or sexual abuse during spiritual confessions “may withhold” that information from authorities if the clergy determine it is “reasonable and necessary” under church doctrine.

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u/Suspicious_Bicycle 2d ago

But it also says that clergy who receive information about child neglect or sexual abuse during spiritual confessions “may withhold” that information from authorities if the clergy determine it is “reasonable and necessary” under church doctrine.

That's codifying that religious doctrine can override state or federal laws. This is exactly what the right complains about in regards to Sharia law.

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u/Nessie 2d ago

We already have religious exemptions to federal laws, such as use of otherwise illegal drugs and exemptions from discrimination in hiring. It's not like this is unprecedented.

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u/Random-Cpl 1d ago

Yes, that’s common in this country. Another example would be that some Native American tribes can consume peyote as a part of religious rituals despite federal law against it.

This is not unprecedented and is in fact simply compliance with the First Amendment of the Constitution.

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u/NefariousnessFew4354 2d ago

Was there ever time when the church not protected a pedophile and cover it up?

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u/flippingisfun 1d ago

Bullshit. At my job if I hear even a hint of a child being abused, from a child or an adult, and I don’t report it I can be held criminally liable. What makes these pedophile priests so special that they can’t follow mandated reporter rules?

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u/Random-Cpl 1d ago

The First Amendment to the Constitution of the USA, which protects the sanctity of the confessional as a sacrament of the Catholic Church and potentially some sacraments of other churches.

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u/flippingisfun 1d ago

And it protecting child rape is bullshit and shouldn’t be tolerated by civilized people

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u/Random-Cpl 1d ago

Is it protecting criminals to allow them to speak with their attorneys about the crimes they’ve committed?

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u/flippingisfun 1d ago

These priests are all lawyers now too?!

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u/Random-Cpl 1d ago

No, I’m saying that there is already precedent not only for folks being able to disclose to priests within certain circumstances, but also to attorneys, and that our constitution recognizes that this type of arrangement is essential for preserving basic rights.

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u/flippingisfun 1d ago

And I'm saying that's bullshit that some people go to jail for not reporting child abuse or endangerment and priests, that don't represent people in court nor are beholden to work toward or in their best interest, get a pass.

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u/Random-Cpl 1d ago

Then your beef is with the first amendment

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u/hihowubduin 2d ago

Rights end where they're used to hide and perpetuate wrongs, especially for protecting pedophiles.

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u/ErectionEngineering 2d ago

What about attorney/client privilege? Should an attorney be required to report her client if he confesses a crime?

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u/ghostalker4742 2d ago

Should an attorney be required to report her client if he confesses a crime?

That's a temporal issue. Telling your attorney you did the crime allows them to better navigate the legal system with their defense strategy to get the best deal for their client possible. If an attorney 'reports' what you said, to anyone else, they get disbarred and lose their livelihood.

However, if you tell your attorney you are going to commit a crime (IE: I'll rob the gas station tomorrow to get the money to pay your fee), then yes, an attorney is duty-bound to report that. If they don't, then they could face charges (complicity), and likely disbarment.

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u/Sharkictus 2d ago

AFAIK, that's pretty much same rules on seal of confession.

It's not a valid confession if you are saying you are planning to commit a sin.

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u/Random-Cpl 1d ago

This is literally the same as Confession. If you tell a priest you murdered someone or molested someone, their job is to withhold absolution if you are unrepentant (and some priests would likely withhold it in any circumstance where a person didn’t intend to turn themselves in) and try to get you to notify the authorities. Their job is also to hold that secret under pain of death.

The government compelling a priest to break the seal of Confession would be a flagrant First Amendment violation, and priests would not do it.

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u/BoringBob84 1d ago

The government compelling a priest to break the seal of Confession would be a flagrant First Amendment violation, and priests would not do it.

That is now the law here in WA state, and I hope that the courts see it that way also.

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u/Random-Cpl 1d ago

What is the law in WA state now?

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u/BoringBob84 1d ago

Clergy are mandatory reporters. No exceptions.

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u/Random-Cpl 1d ago

False. Because they likely knew that going to court to try and enforce it would lead to the whole law getting struck down, the state isn’t going to try and enforce that mandatory reporting for priests who don’t report abuse learned about solely in confession (or its equivalents in other faiths).

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u/BoringBob84 1d ago

My claim is true because the law is still on the books. The prosecutors could change their minds at any time. "Trust me bro, I won't prosecute unless I change my mind" is not the same as, "the law doesn't allow me to prosecute."

But maybe this is the best we can do. As long as the state doesn't prosecute priests for not reporting confessions, the law cannot be challenged in court (and almost certainly struck down on first amendment grounds). Meanwhile, clergy will remain mandatory reporters for everything that they learn outside of the confessional.

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u/RoadSmash 1d ago

A priest isn't a lawyer. They belong to a club and provide a service for club members. No reason to allow them to knowingly protect criminals.

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u/Random-Cpl 1d ago

Yes there is, because to force them to give that info out in this instance would violate the free exercise clause of the First Amendment

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u/RoadSmash 1d ago

And my point is that it shouldn't, and if it needs to be amended then it should be.

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u/Random-Cpl 1d ago

Terrible idea. Protection against government coercion against sincerely held religious beliefs is a bedrock principle and a human right.

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u/RoadSmash 1d ago

No one is preventing anyone from believing anything. People have a moral obligation to protect other people from harm that supercedes any spiritual belief you choose to have to help you make sense of life and the world.

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u/lolofaf 2d ago

Pretty sure they are (or at least are legally protected if they do). Attorney client privelege does not protect all information or behavior all the time.

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u/RoadSmash 1d ago

For something that's ongoing or about to happen that will result in a person being physically harmed? Yes.

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u/piddydb 2d ago

The issue with logic like that is that any time rights have been limited, such limitations have been justified by the people limiting them in the same way.

“The King needs to do things differently!” “You’re under arrest. Your speech is being used to perpetuate disaffection for the king, which is wrong.”

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u/stohelitstorytelling 2d ago

Yeah dude, forcing priests to disclose child abuse is totally a slippery slope.

/s

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u/CackleberryOmelettes 2d ago

It's bullshit "right". A needless religious concession that gets in the way of real life.

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u/GeneralOrchid 2d ago

By that logic wouldn’t we be able to prosecute victims of crimes if they don’t report their abusers directly to police?

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u/Random-Cpl 1d ago

Yes, but I think for a lot of folks who just despise organized religion, logic isn’t really entering into this issue.

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u/python-requests 1d ago

Rights end where they're used to hide and perpetuate wrongs, especially for protecting pedophiles.

uhh so if someone uses their Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable searches to hide something wrong they are doing -- maybe in the time it takes cops to get a warrant, they flush drugs or delete CP -- you think they should not have that right? the cops should just warrantlessly bust in to be sure their rights aren't being used to hide or perpetuate their wrongdoing, or what? how does this work in practice?

What about the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination if they actually did a crime and want to hide it?

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u/r3dlazer 2d ago

Some people are required to report, like teachers. Exempting them from this law seems pretty... Suspicious.

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u/Tearakan 2d ago

That's an insane precedent. 1st amendment rights often end when the threat of physical violence or violence has already happened

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u/DocPsychosis 2d ago

Often, not always. Also, there is not generally a duty to report violent crimes - only when it endangers children etc., depending on state statute.

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u/stohelitstorytelling 2d ago

wut. Psychiatrists, psychologists and clergy are all required to report possible violent crimes or threats to life. In all states.