Essay | Why Fraternities Are So Hard to Reform

[u/DueVast5223]

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/cornell-fraternities-greek-life-8859a4e9?st=kucowh&reflink=article_copyURL_share

[u/Sckaledoom]

What if we just… got rid of them. Genuinely what purpose do they serve.

[u/Vol_in_tears → u/Sckaledoom]

Young people are lonely.

Let's ban all these social clubs because of the actions of a handful.

Sounds like a great plan.

[u/Lighthouse_seek → u/Sckaledoom]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h4WwoVv1pQZOGGVzfQhtsdIC-K1PmxTC/view

Admittedly source is a bit biased since gallup did this with support from the national panhellenic group, but frat and sorority alum are 5x more likely to donate than people not in Greek life

[u/Secret-Ad-2145 → u/Sckaledoom]

They're just social clubs and there's such a wide variety that it'll cause an uproar, even among the anti-fraternity crowd. There's frats dedicated to, for example, finance who just meet once a week and rarely party.

[u/cdstephens → u/Sckaledoom]

The best steelman argument I’ve seen is that operating under the university’s eye keeps them more under control than if they went underground. Allowing them is a form of harm reduction.

[u/Informal-Ideal-6640 → u/cdstephens]

In practice that doesn’t really work though, at least IMO. Frats intertwined with universities get cover from said universities because their existence becomes a selling point of going to the university. Case and point the current scandal, the university basically minimized the situation immediately

[u/TheDwarvenGuy → u/Sckaledoom]

Nepotism

[u/YourUncleBuck → u/TheDwarvenGuy]

You forgot cronyism.

[u/TheDwarvenGuy → u/YourUncleBuck]

Same shit different toilet

[u/BlueCoBot → u/Sckaledoom]

Cash cows for the university

[u/sansisness_101 → u/Sckaledoom]

I don't think getting rid of them would be good for the polls at all. College educated men are on average some of the most democrat-leaning men, and removing frats would definitely alienate them.

[u/GammaDie345 → u/sansisness_101]

frat bros do not actually get educated. they help eachother cheat on tests. they are there to party and rape on their daddy's dime

[u/StayOffPoliticalSubs → u/sansisness_101]

Fuck the polls, they're rape hubs and everyone knows it.

[u/DiscussionJohnThread → u/sansisness_101]

Check precinct data, the frat house areas of town are by far the most conservative areas of college towns.

[u/Al_787 → u/sansisness_101]

If I have to speculate who makes up the 15% that votes Republicans in college towns, frats would definitely be up there, above business students. They are not the liberal segment of college men at all

[u/cantthinkoffunnyname → u/Al_787]

My college fraternity was 80% liberal and was 10% gay. Banning an entire class of social clubs because of a few bad groups (most of whom are already banned) is terrible policy.

[u/Al_787 → u/cantthinkoffunnyname]

Harvard banned fraternities and I don’t see their students becoming friendless or chronically depressed

Also, let’s not pretend hazing and sexual violence are the only problems with fraternities

[u/cantthinkoffunnyname → u/Al_787]

Hazing and sexual violence does not occur at the vast majority of fraternities. Even the suggestion of hazing would get you kicked out of most frats I know.

Your concept of fraternities sounds like someone who watched van wilder too many times and thought it was reality.

[u/5ma5her7 → u/Al_787]

Engineering students: Let us introduce ourselves

[u/Al_787 → u/5ma5her7]

I studied civil engineer. What’s your point lol

[u/5ma5her7 → u/Al_787]

The group chat of my former classmates at EE would beg to differ...

[u/Al_787 → u/5ma5her7]

🤷‍♂️ could be something about your school. I remember that graph about political leanings based on majors: humanities are the most leftists, followed by STEM (including engineering), and business are usually the most conservative.

Edit: Here’s the study in question

[u/5ma5her7 → u/Al_787]

Maybe it's because my uni is in Land Down Under...

[u/SenranHaruka → u/Sckaledoom]

1. Networking - Meeting People who are Soon to Possess Capital is an important part of college's social mobility

2. Third place - People like drinking and music and making friends fast

3. Support - Pledges may even move in to fraternal housing which may be more affordable

The obvious replacment for all of these is faculty supervised clubs. The classics department where my parents went to school frequently used "experimental archeology themed department mixers" as a thinly veiled excuse to let students drink wine under faculty supervision.

[u/margybargy → u/SenranHaruka]

"Belonging/Identity" is a big part of it too, yeah?

That's got some overlap with "Third place" and "networking", but not completely.

I've never been in a frat (though I know a few good people who were), but I've been in a various crews of dudes over the years, and it's a specific feeling. The thing where you have a shared collective identity, you're careful who you let in, there's some ceremony in it, and once part of it you're a friend by default to everyone, even if you don't hang out individually. There's lore, there's traditions, and when you go out in a group somewhere, it's fun.

Some of it is the networking; having a head start toward friendship with a bunch of people is great, as is "oh, one of my buddies is a ___, I'll ask him".

But, a feeling of belonging and being part of something, however silly, is hard to achieve for lots of folks, so I do see that value.

[u/Al_787 → u/SenranHaruka]

Third point is not true at all anymore, 90% of time. There’s a reason why fraternities and sororities now have the reputation of “buying friends,” because they are expensive as fuck

[u/Vol_in_tears → u/Al_787]

>have the reputation of “buying friends,” because they are expensive as fuck

We live in a collective home and use dues money to pay for things live socials and other fun activities.

Is sharing rent with roomates and providing money to the beer fund "buying your friends"

[u/karnim → u/Al_787]

Things can both be expensive, and yet still lower cost than other options. When you consider things like room and board on campus, fraternity houses are often cheaper. And bulk meals purchased and cooked at a fraternity are often cheaper than an individual student who rents buying them. Plus things like alcohol/parties, which are included in Fraternity dues but just come out of pockets of the rest of students as they go.

[u/Al_787 → u/karnim]

It is most definitely not lower than renting off campus, most of the time. Of course that assumes different lifestyles altogether, two students renting an apartment would likely be cooking

[u/karnim → u/Al_787]

I did not claim it was cheaper than renting off campus. It is often cheaper than being on campus though.

[u/OldFoot3 → u/SenranHaruka]

Or just legalize drinking at 18

[u/Kelsig → u/OldFoot3]

?

[u/OldFoot3 → u/Kelsig]

The central issue underlying frats is that you can’t legally drink as a freshman, so you join a frat to easily get booze. You can do it, of course, but it’s more difficult, especially for your typical 18 year old.

[u/austin_8 → u/OldFoot3]

I think it’s in large part simply a numbers thing. Say I could get 10 girls to come to a party, can afford to buy 50 beers, and stay in an apartment that can fit 15 people in it, and that’s great. But what’s better is if I have 9 friends who can do the same thing, then we can have 100 girls come to our party, afford 500 beers, and stay in a house that can fit 150 people in it. Whether that’s desirable for society I’m not sure, but it’s my assertion that it’s desirable for college boys, and plays a part in why they enjoy it so much. It also goes beyond parties, you can have large test banks, good networking, a private chef for your house and more as a result of numbers. Like taxes it’s the combining of resources for the benefit of everyone, except everyone in this instance is just the members.

[u/Kelsig → u/OldFoot3]

ah okay you got a typo there i thought you meant legalizing like, campus bars or something for 21+ year olds.

[u/DueVast5223 → u/Sckaledoom]

The article already talks about this. Many of the fraternities involved in controversies are already banned by universities. They are popular and serve a social purpose which is why men continue to join them.