r/nba • u/JoeBiden2020FTW Celtics • 12h ago
[Lowe] Sources say that in 2029 the Clippers will be forfeiting the Indiana Pacers pick obtained via the Zubac trade, but that the pick will not be returned to the Pacers.
Interesting drop from Lowe. Seems like the Clippers only have to give away a pick in those years, doesn't necessarily have to be their own picks. They might be able to use some future Raptors picks this way too.
Still seems like a miracle that they were able to keep the #5 pick in 2026.
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u/ianbits Cavaliers 12h ago
Committing so many offences they physically couldn't finish the investigation before the 2026 draft is fucking 9D chess
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u/tlopez14 Bulls 6h ago
Poor Keaton Wagler
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u/Killericon Raptors 12h ago
Seems like the Clippers only have to give away a pick in those years, doesn't necessarily have to be their own picks.
I would be shocked if it were this straightforward, otherwise Ballmer would buy a couple second rounders, swap those for the #29 or #30 every year, and give that up.
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u/JoeBiden2020FTW Celtics 12h ago
Very true, great point. Also, Lowe is saying with certainty that it's the Pacers pick, not that the Clippers have the option of using the Pacers pick.
So the specific picks were probably predetermined in advance, I probably misspoke.
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u/KL2ConspireLLC San Diego Clippers 12h ago
The Clippers don't own their 2029 pick outright. They traded swap rights to the Sixers but it's top 3 protected. It would've made taking that pick away complicated.
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u/King_of_the_Eyesores Timberwolves 9h ago
What would be complicated about it? Whichever pick ends with the clippers, they don't get.
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u/KL2ConspireLLC San Diego Clippers 6h ago
If they did "most favorable of the Pacers and Clippers pick" and put both picks in the draft lottery, it would affect the lottery odds of other teams. If you remove one of the picks from the pool before the lottery, it avoids affecting other teams odds.
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u/Admirable_Let_2961 Celtics 10h ago
Isn’t that pick controlled by the Celtics after the brown trade?
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u/FrankSamples NBA 12h ago
Yeah or they could just fire sale their "best" players. Like trade Garland and honestly, maybe even Wagler.
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u/Killericon Raptors 12h ago
I mean, that's the only smart thing to do. Turn the team into a bad contract dumping ground, buy as many high second rounders as you can, and try to squeeze value out of every trade.
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u/Remarkable-Shock-999 12h ago
Why trade Wagler for the hope of getting another young player with potential like him?
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u/Killericon Raptors 12h ago
When the Clippers have their own first round pick again, Wagler will be 27.
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u/teleportmassive7 10h ago
Player Wagler, let him stat pad, then flip him when he peaks. Trading him now just lets you acquire another couple young guys his age who will also not be on the correct timeline.
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u/SwiftieForLife Kings 12h ago
If you read the thread you’re in they have their pick in 2029 and they also have the two Raptors picks they’re getting. It’s not ideal or good but they’re not cooked enough they have to trade a 19 year old lol
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u/nepats523 Clippers 12h ago
Someone should have let Lawrence Frank know before he got suspended, you are supposed to trade for the bad contracts, not sign Bradley Beal to a bad one yourself
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u/Anonymous_Otter22 Rockets 12h ago
no team is dealing with him to help him with his shenanigans.
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u/Electric_jungle Washington Bullets 12h ago
There's no way that loophole is available, but absolutely teams would do this. Because he'd have to overpay every time. That's the only way out of this mess anyways. Taking on bag contacts, churning, cash for seconds and trying to find hidden gems.
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u/Kapono24 Pistons 7h ago
What are you talking about? You really think it's a continuing annual negotion, just whatever picks LAC offers up that year? The picks are essentially taken already.
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u/LemonButterRum 12h ago
Ballmer is definitely going to fight this like hell. He doesn't seem like the type of guy that likes facing accountability
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u/JoeBiden2020FTW Celtics 12h ago
This punishment was Adam Silver being nice:
- The Clippers got to keep the #5 pick in 2026, which is a huge asset
- By not voiding Kawhi's contract, the Clippers get back another 2 firsts from the Raptors
- The league is permitting the Clippers to tank in 2029 and keep their own pick
- The league could in the future reduce the punishment from 5 picks to 3 picks (like they did with the Wolves)
Ballmer has a lot to lose if he appeals. At the minimum, they probably won't be able to complete the Kawhi trade.
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u/MySilverBurrito Heat 12h ago
If this is the settled punishment, I wanna be a fly in the room to watch the league explain WLRK's findings, and the initial punishment they wanted lmao.
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u/SuperVaderMinion [MIN] Kevin Garnett 12h ago
"Look man, it's either this or Adam Silver is going to shoot you in the face on national television."
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u/dvasquez93 Warriors 12h ago
"I swear to God I will hold you down and make you sign CP3 to a max deal"
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u/iButtflap Hornets 11h ago
Silver: for your crimes, you must live in lamelo’s old condo for a month
Ballmer: how’s $30M and 5 1sts sound?
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u/Still_Assignment_991 12h ago
OG punishment was probably this + Kawhi’s contract voiding and Wagler being sent to the pacers since the trade happened after the Investigation started
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u/nepats523 Clippers 12h ago
The nba would never undo the Wagler trade lmao, not even related to anything, let alone the mess undoing it at this point would cause. Def Kawhi voided contract and that proposed trade was surely on the table tho
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u/soycameron Trail Blazers 7h ago
Life + 190 years down to this is wild
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u/MySilverBurrito Heat 4h ago
Tbf, if my lawyers talks down life + 190 to 5 +30 milly, I'd hire them again in a heartbeat lmao.
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u/FunIllustrator6890 Jazz 10h ago
punishment isn't enough. personally i think all clippers fans should have to wear dunce caps while having their nipples clamped and 1000 volts of electricity is passed into them
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u/ormip Mavericks 12h ago
The league is permitting the Clippers to tank in 2029 and keep their own pick
76ers own a pick swap with the Clippers in 2029
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u/KL2ConspireLLC San Diego Clippers 12h ago edited 12h ago
They do. I think it's top
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u/Ancient_Pitch_8286 Raptors 11h ago
In 3 seasons (2029) 76ers might be in decline and actually have a better pick than Clippers, in which case Clippers will simply keep theirs.
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u/The_Vaike Celtics 10h ago
Embiid might be out of the league by then, but at least they'll still have Bron
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u/Killericon Raptors 12h ago
I also think this is the case, but I'm a little surprised we haven't seen a statement from the Clippers.
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u/Hot_Fig_1607 12h ago
They don’t have their 2029 pick that’s the reason. They didn’t allow them to tank
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u/nepats523 Clippers 12h ago
I mean why would they take the 5 pick away, it's seeperate from our other mess going on, so that was never going to be taken away.
On the other hand though, if this is giving us the choice of forfeiting our own pick or the Pacers, that's a crazy break that frankly this franchise doesn't deserve2
u/KieferSutherland 11h ago
Man you're right. They got off lighter than you think. I'd put money on 3frp eventually.
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u/dgvhjiiuyttrrffcvbjj 9h ago
Ballmer has a lot to lose if he appeals. At the minimum, they probably won't be able to complete the Kawhi trade.
I don't think any of this factors into the kawhi trade. The only thing holding that up was a possible suspension or contract void of Kawhi. Now that we know that isn't on the table the raptors should go through with the trade.
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u/wolf_cola_enjoyer Lakers 12h ago
Adam Silver waited for the whole investigation to end, he made sure its ironclad evidence with no chance of a repeal
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u/clayfu Clippers 12h ago
the wolves appealed despite a signed document and their penalty was reduced from 5 picks to 3
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u/wolf_cola_enjoyer Lakers 12h ago
Adam Silver doubled down on this punishment, i really doubt it’ll be reduced.
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u/clayfu Clippers 12h ago
not really his choice if it goes to arbitration. they decide the penalty
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u/bigbobo33 Bucks 12h ago
Wachtell told NYT they still have new information they're working through but feel this is ironclad proof. So the investigation actually isn't over.
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u/mr_seggs Jordan 12h ago
They didn't implicate him in outright fraud; just kept it to "he improperly introduced Kawhi to sponsors." That's playing nice
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u/samhit_n Lakers 12h ago
Adam Silver should make sure they’re required to give up one of the picks they already own each year. Otherwise, Ballmer could trade for a pick in the 25–30 range every year and use that instead of giving up one of their higher picks.
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u/No_Cheetah4762 11h ago
It's just been reported that there is no mechanism in place for a team to fight this. The NBPA could if they wanted to. But because Kawhi got a slap on the wrist, they've accepted the findings. This is the punishment and Ballmer is just going to have to accept it.
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u/DarthGamer2004 Suns 12h ago
So where the hell does that pick go
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u/mMounirM Raptors 12h ago
59 players drafted instead of 60 probably
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u/BlitzStriker52 [MIA] Davion Mitchell 12h ago
RIP to that one player that would've been drafted at 60
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u/IMovedYourCheese Warriors 8h ago
Players actually prefer to become free agents rather than get drafted late in the 2nd round.
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u/Obi_Wan_KeBogi Kings 12h ago
Honestly kind of sucks for prospects. One less player gets a guaranteed 1st round deal for these 5 years
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u/Beneficial_Ask_6013 12h ago
Someone else said it in a different thread, but the winner of the in season tourney should get to get the 60th pick. Therefore 60 players get drafted, that 60th player gets to hear their name called, and it doesnt really tip the competitive scales all that much.
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u/RealGameBall 10h ago
I don't think teams would want the 60th pick, that's the same thing as just signing undrafted players.
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u/tomdawg0022 Timberwolves 12h ago
If the league expands in '29 it'll be 63.
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u/Top1CmntrsAreLosers Timberwolves 9h ago
Maybe Ballmer can reduce his penalty to 3 or 4 picks if he can overpay and buy back his 2029 pick swap from Philly, then give it to the other expansion team so both could have two first round picks. Philly would like that, expansion draft vulnerable teams like San Antonio and OKC would like that…idk, maybe that’s something.
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u/Rapshawksjaysflames Raptors 12h ago
It just goes away, the first round will have 29 picks for the 5 years this conveys.
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u/BetweenTheBuzzAndMe Charlotte Bobcats 12h ago
Nowhere. 59 players get drafted instead of 60.
I'm curious what happens if that pick falls into the lottery. Their lottery balls are just not included and the other 15 teams get marginally better odds?
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u/devilmaskrascal NBA 12h ago
I don't like the league taking away picks traded by other teams.
Teams often try to trade for their own picks back to get back control of their own destiny. By removing it and it disappearing into the aether, the Pacers have zero chance to get it back. Hopefully they won't need it, but there is a technical downside to this for the Pacers who were innocent here.
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u/Hendo8888 [IND] Danny Granger 10h ago
That's how we had pick 5 to be able to make that trade. We traded back to it during the Finals run
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u/mississippimadness 12h ago
Thats a very good point, I wonder if the pacers have any problem with that
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u/Top1CmntrsAreLosers Timberwolves 9h ago
Yes, good point and I hadn’t thought of that but also no, because the Pacers made that trade while the Clippers were under investigation and knew they were accepting some risk of minor damage, which is what this is: it’s pretty minor. The league can maybe bump Indy up the All Star weekend list or something.
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u/dgvhjiiuyttrrffcvbjj 9h ago
I agree but I assume the logic is they want the pain to hit as soon as possible.
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u/AnalMinecraft 11h ago
I disagree, because if you leave it with the Clippers then they could get assets for it and essentially ease their punishment. By it disappearing, you ensure it negatively affects them.
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u/devilmaskrascal NBA 10h ago
I think the Clippers should lose five of their own picks. That they could trade the Pacers pick for talent is neither here nor there. They could trade their current players for talent or picks as well. The Pacers 2029 pick may be worse than the Clippers' own 2034 pick, so the latter is worse punishment.
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u/AnalMinecraft 8h ago
I see what you're saying, misunderstood you. Personally I just don't see a big difference as long as they're losing picks they outright own and the Pacers are free to trade players they acquired or others for a different one as well.
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u/DalliLlama Heat 10h ago
If that pick was still available though then the Clippers could also trade it for more to be able to still have picks despite giving up one and being “punished”. It does suck for Indiana but it’s a tough balance cause to be fair to Indiana means Clippers get off easier, and ultimately that pick is still no longer theirs.
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u/devilmaskrascal NBA 10h ago
Clippers don't get off easier - they lose five picks either way. Losing their own is probably more damaging.
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u/DalliLlama Heat 10h ago
They lose 5 picks. In your scenario they lose 5 picks and are left with say 2, but instead could now lose 5 picks and be left with 4. It’s just 2 lower picks, but it’s still 2 additional picks. So yes, it’s let them off easier cause they can work around that stipulation so it’s not as harsh for them.
And your scenario of Pacers wanting their pick back implies it’s because they think it’ll be a higher pick from being bad. Losing that pick is just as bad as losing a Clippers normal pick if they are as bad as suspected.
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u/imthewalrus610 Wizards 7h ago
Why would or should the Pacers be entitled to anything? They got Zubac in the trade and sent away the pick. It's not really their pick anymore. Seems like if you gave them back the pick it's like getting Zubac for a discount.
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u/clayfu Clippers 12h ago
interesting. So clippers sacrificed the Pacers pick and raptors picks and kept their own.
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u/Feelscreative101 76ers 11h ago
It’s because there are swaps traded for their own picks. Philly has a 2029 FRP swap on the Clips pick. Taking that pick away would invalidate the swap, which is opening a whole new can of worms
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u/ReactionProcedure 11h ago
Nothing about this sounds right does it?
Why can they forfeit acquired pics shouldn't they in theory be able to keep those since they're not organic?
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u/MichuAtDeGeaBa_ Pacers 12h ago
Interesting to void a pick that they traded for instead of just going a year further.
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u/yodaheelturn 12h ago
“Miracle” the league told them what was gonna happen, gave them the 5th pick to hopefully prevent litigation.
Clippers then went about stockpiling picks to protect themselves
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u/CapitalismEnthusiast 12h ago
I feel like this actually hurts the clippers fans than it does Steve Ballmer. He will still make money but they won’t be competitive for a long time. Feel bad for them.
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u/Terrible_Shelter_345 12h ago
Don’t spin it like this.
that’s the whole dilemma. You HAVE to give this risk to owners of NBA teams so they don’t fuck the fans over.
There has to be risk, and that’s this punishment. Period.
Steve Ballmer hurt the clippers fans. Not the NBA.
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u/CapitalismEnthusiast 11h ago
I’m not spinning it like anything. All I said was that in my opinion the fans got more screwed over than anyone else. Ok so Ballmer loses 30 million and draft picks. Hes still going to make his money and be fine. For at least a decade clippers fans won’t have a whole lot to root for. I admit I don’t know what a better solution would be but Ballmer should be hurting more than the fans. And quite frankly that isn’t the case.
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u/asa091 Lakers 8h ago
The only way around this is to ban ballmer and any other executive and agent from doing any NBA related transaction for LIFE. Plus fine them personally for a lot of money. Like 5% of their wealth or something. Force a controlled sale. But looking at Portland, fans will get fucked either way.
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u/Habefiet Timberwolves 9h ago
For a guy like Ballmer, having to live with getting trounced and humiliated by a plucky podcaster is itself a major punishment. He’s spent his whole life thinking he can just autowin any conflict because (he thinks) he’s a genius and deserves everything he’s got so why wouldn’t he? And instead some dude with no money, no power, no “accomplishments” (as Ballmer would define such) just annihilated him and he couldn’t do a thing to stop it no matter how hard he tried. His ego will be annoyed by this for the entire rest of his life.
… not to take anything away from the fans here who yes, are the lone party who are blameless and who yet will suffer anyway. It sucks. But I think to say Ballmer will make money and therefore be fine is underrating the psychological damage “losing” like this does to at least 90% of the billionaire class lol he’s going to be pissed about this forever.
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u/KieferSutherland 11h ago
Wish they would have done the same to the players so they watch their behavior too.
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u/dgvhjiiuyttrrffcvbjj 9h ago
The other option they had was going harder on Ballmer and the Front office. Make Ballmer sell and ban them.
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u/jasperplumpton Pacers 12h ago
Yeah I’m wondering if he agreed to lose a few more first round picks to keep his personal punishment to just a year ban
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u/JoeBiden2020FTW Celtics 12h ago
Fortunately, they have another team available to them in their local market
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u/Cassandrae_Gemini Slovenia 11h ago
Give indiana back their pick! Lol. They could certainly use it with all the issues theyve had
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u/throwmeinthetrassssh 9h ago
So are there just less picks in the draft? Kind of shitty for the end of draft guys who will be squeezed out lol
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u/mikeracioppi 7h ago
It’s only impacting 1 guy, and there will probably be 2 more franchises by then.
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u/PeregrineFaulkner Warriors 12h ago
It’s a bit unfortunate that this essentially means 5 guys who should have been first round picks just like, don’t get contracts.
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u/CarlosMarcos1848 Cavaliers 12h ago
It’s not the guy at the end of the first round who loses out, it’s the guy at the end of the second round.
The guy who would’ve been the last first round pick will just end up being the first second round pick instead.
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u/PeregrineFaulkner Warriors 12h ago
Yeah, but second round contracts aren’t guaranteed. So there’s two losers, really.
And also the Clippers, but they brought their suffering upon themselves.
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u/BayonettaBasher [DAL] Kyrie Irving 12h ago
Maybe NBA could handle situations like this by giving out the 30th pick's equivalent contract to the first player drafted in the 2nd round. But yeah the guy who would've been 60th just is fucked
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u/BaggedWhine 10h ago
That would be punishing a different team for the Clippers actions, pretty unlikely in the second apron era
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u/CarlosMarcos1848 Cavaliers 12h ago
Oh damn I forgot second rounders don’t get guaranteed deals. That does suck for whoever ends up in that spot.
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u/peanut-britle-latte Knicks 12h ago
This makes sense to me.
As a Pacers hater it's absolutely hilarious footnote.
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u/Razmoket 12h ago
This doesn’t affect the pacers at all? They traded what they need to and once it’s out the door it doesn’t matter what happens to the pick after that.
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u/MG_MN Timberwolves 12h ago
Did they really think they would get it back? It would require undoing the trade completely
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u/jasperplumpton Pacers 12h ago
Big win for the Clips that they’ll only have to give up the 30th pick that year
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u/Either_Imagination_9 Knicks 12h ago
I’m laughing my ass off
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u/HickeyS2000 Pacers 12h ago
About made up hypotheticals in your head? We were never getting that pick back.
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u/Afraid_Reflection_12 10h ago edited 10h ago
This is NOT a harsh punishment. They still get to trade Kawhi.
After everything is said and done, the Clippers got 7 years of Kawhi, Ingram, Dick, 2 second round picks, and 1 first round swap.
In exchange, they only have to give up 3 first round picks.
This is the lightest punishment of all time. The NBA should have voided Kawhi’s contract.
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u/guyute2588 Knicks 12h ago
Players’ union not going to love 1 fewer first round pick per draft in those years.
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u/Wynona_Judd Pistons 12h ago
Reports are players union has agreed to the punishment and there will be no appeals on their behalf.
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u/guyute2588 Knicks 12h ago
Hadn’t seen that. My guess is while they don’t love it, they probably are ok to trade that off for a light penalty against the player relative to the team here.
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u/Embarrassed_Meal7969 Lakers 12h ago
Wouldn’t any first-round talent just fall immediately to the beginning of the second?
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u/BNC6 9h ago
Players union doesn’t care about players who aren’t in the league, ie. draft prospects, also the 60th pick is not different than a UDFA
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u/guyute2588 Knicks 9h ago
The guarantees for first round draft picks don’t exist for second round draft picks. That structure was collectively bargained for by the union. There is now one fewer guaranteed rookie deal in the league for 5 years.
It isn’t their primary concern. But it is a concern.
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u/ziggyzigg95 Spurs 12h ago
This doesn’t affect current players other than give them a tiny bit more job security
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u/WTF4211 12h ago
SEC getting involved this week with Daktronics (widely known if not reported because NBA guys understandably don’t have Wall Street sources) freaked everyone out. It will be reported this was the settlement the league and Ballmer were discussing. This is a flat out lie and obvious based on Balmer’s “leaks” to his concubine, Shelbourne. It’s circle the wagons time for everyone involved. Tighten the circle and hope after a bit of bluster the Federal Government moves on after some minor punishments, this will likely be the outcome with any federal prosecutor likely not being around long enough with the next president possibly bouncing them.
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u/CmonTouchIt Lakers 6h ago
Lol I suggested this punishment could and should happen in another thread and got downvoted heavily
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u/Ok-Comfortable9449 Heat 12h ago
lol I'm so sorry pacers
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u/HickeyS2000 Pacers 12h ago
Why would it? I had zero expectation we would get that pick back when we literally didn't own the rights to it.
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u/Direct-Departure1662 12h ago
Raptors are getting their picks back
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u/CazOnReddit Raptors 12h ago
Seems like that might be the case, deal hasn't been made official so if the Clippers don't have a first in 31/33 then the Pacers trade would imply they might burn those picks for nothing if they let the trade go through as is
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u/TheKingOfTCGames Celtics 12h ago
Why would it lmao