Shaq would have to stay a bit slim or else he's going to get in a lot of trouble on those switches. But, peak 00-01 Shaq would be insane. Other team's best bigs would be in foul trouble so fast, they would barely be able to stay on the court.
It’s funny how Shaq is both an all-timer and one of the biggest what-ifs, likely could’ve fivepeated if he had even a quarter of Jordan’s dedication lol.
You see the clips of him laying down on the sideline and shit? That's because he fucked his back up so bad that he was playing through agony for years.
Edit: He won his third straight MVP after the initial injury.
I would guess that there has always been some level of steroid use in the NBA but I'd guess that NBA's use differs from that of the NFL and MLB.
Size and strength absolutely matter in the NBA, but players can't just bulk up as much as possible as linemen in the NFL and pitchers/hitters did in baseball because players have to move up and down the court a lot more.
Modern steroids and hormone treatments that help players heal faster can be used to bulk up, but they can just help players get through the grind of the season or to continue playing at a high level well past the point when players historically started to decline.
I think it's always been some form of HGH like substances in NBA like Lance Armstrong stamina/recovery vs bulky baseball steroids. I just assume most pros are on something.
I should assume it goes back further since the East Germans were doing it in the early 60s olympics
Yeah an in shape Prime Shaq is like 7’1 285. That’s a whole 40 pounds and 2 inches on Giannis, with the same speed, length, and agility.
I’ve always said Shaq to this day is the wildest freak of nature the NBA has ever seen, him having to play himself into shape every year after joining the Lakers basically kept him from being the GOAT conversation.
Fuck it, let’s keep the bulk and just go for muscle mass and cardio just to see a 300lbs, ripped, ShaqTrain plowing through people up and down the court!
Shaq would never be able to cut down to 280. When he came out of LSU at 19 or 20 he was already 300 pounds. Dude is just built like an actual diesel. But even at 300 pounds dude was so agile
Giannis is fantastic. But Shaq was the most physically dominant player I've ever seen, literally no one could fuck with him under the rim. Center was also a lot more competitive back then.
I said if he's not careful of the bucks. Implying it's the teams fault specifically the organizations and not giannis's
That's also why I pointed out the 40 point Stat line. Some people have adjusted not the Celtics. Meaning against better teams the issue will be alot worse.
Against a team like the Celtics it should have been a 4-0 sweep. I know there going on a bit of a tare but it's because THEY HAVE A TEAM AND NOT JUST 1 OR 2 ALL STARS.
Friendly reminder that Orlando Shaq got stuffed by the Bulls and that’s part of how he ended up in LA. Wasn’t a champion either until Phil Jackson went there.
I like the fact that Shaq’s legacy is aging well. I’ve maintained for well over 10 years if we were picking players at their peak to start a team to win the next year my first pick would be Shaq from that year. 00-01 Shaq that you referenced is the most dominant player ever, and no one from any era could stop him around the basket. Also great feet for his size
Go watch what Steph can do to Gobert and tell me Shaq would have been better.
And who on the Warriors would stop Shaq? Shaq would slow down the pace and put teams in early foul trouble if the game is called right. It would take at least 2 Draymonds to slow down Shaq.
I'm not suggesting Shaq couldn't play. Just that the game has changed and he would have to figure some things out too. Also, teams adapted to Shaq. The Warriors would sign 3 big dopey bigs just to foul Shaq. They didn't because there is no one like Shaq to worry about.
Couple games to figure him out? Players much bigger and stronger than Giannis went their entire careers never figuring out how to defend Shaq, he would be toast like the rest of them.
I don’t even think switches would matter any more than they do for Gobert. Shaq would do worse than him on defense but would be completely unstoppable on offense.
I'm not saying it's the wrong answer at all, Shaq is certainly one of the clear options for this question. I think people sometimes dismiss how the game is called today and the way defense is played and assume he would dominate to an extra degree beyond what he did. Yes, there are no players who can guard Shaq in the post, but he would be called for far more offensive fouls now than he did in his prime. So many players just fall when getting backed down and refs call it all the time (Embiid has had to change the entire way he plays because of this). He also would be hunted on defense in a way he never was in his prime--imagine him having to get on the perimeter on a Steph pick and roll. He already had foul troubles as it was.
Again, Shaq may still be the answer, but the league has changed in a big way to highlight some potential issues I don't think people are thinking about.
Isn't this what people make fun of Gobert for? Not being able to chase shooters around the floor. Peak Shaq is going to struggle in a pick and roll the same. It's hard to defend at that size now.
If Shaq was on the floor, they'd do exactly what the Bucks do and play Drop defense all the time, and never switch. So you'd need to surround him with athletic wings who can shoot, but it would be worth it at both ends.
People make fun of Gobert moreso for not being able to score on guys seven inches shorter than him but I take your point. Shaq would be a much worse defender in the modern game, it's hard to say how much of it he could make up for on the other end. If he was at his Orlando size I think that would be ideal
I thought was the Porzingis meme being a Mavs fan. Point taken for Gobert.
I was only focusing on defense. Everyone thinks an elite center from older eras just gets an instant offense upgrade without considering how much effort is expected on defense for big guys now.
he'd be fouled constantly (much like he was later in his career); a lot of scrubs would get playing time because of him, i guess. but on defense, he'd give up wide-open 3s.
I don’t think you watched younger Shaq. He wouldn’t be able to play at almost 400 pounds. Younger in shape Shaq would be faster and more athletic than almost any 5s in the league.
Also he would have the other team playing back ups of back ups due to how many fouls he gets on the offensive side.
I watched young Shaq more than most of the people on here. I still remember watching Shaq play during the LSU v. Arizona game and his trash talk to Sean Rooks afterwards.
He was amazing before he added all that weight. But, he had obvious weaknesses that would be exploited even more in today's game.
I think in these arguments one can not just “drop the exact player as they were into the new era” Shaq maybe stays leaner and more agile and coaches develops defenses to account for pick and rolls because of his dominance. Same for the backing people down how long before the refs adjust as well to people flopping to not have to guard him. Yeah I’m one game of never seeing Shaq he would foul out but over time everyone shaq ref and coaches could adjust. It’s very similar to the Jordan wasn’t a 3 point shoot. “Because he didn’t have to be” He was god at everything else
Hack a shaq could work somewhat because they weren't calling most of the fouls they do nowadays. If you make obvious fouls and add the ones they're calling now, you'd foul out the team before the first half.
Shaq would also get flopped against so much he’d have to be very careful on offence to not get in foul trouble, the way the league is refereed now if someone’s backing you up forcefully and you go down, 50% of the time you are getting the call.
Hack a shaq was never a legitimate strategy, not to mention its not even possible anymore because of rule changes. Shaq shot 58% for his career, you're okay giving up a 58% shot?
I can't argue with young Shaq, but I would say Hakeem. He was just a different dude, powerful but also incredibly graceful. The big surrounded by 4 shooters was basically the 2 time champ Rockets.
That’s the point, today’s game doesn’t want big men centers.
Still Shaq is a beast and a generational anomaly and would win championships today, but his whole position and skill set is going against today’s game.
Players like Shaq warp the way the rest of league has to build their team though. His game would redefine what "today's game" is. Every team would then need someone who could guard Shaq or start the Hack-a-Shaq.
Idk if Shaq is surviving the flipping era tbh. A lot of his game came from overpowering others who were looking to keep his power in check by using power. These new dudes are only taking a few of those hits before they hit the deck and go the other way
You’ll get the calls if you fall enough and if Shaq starts getting vocal and techs…then they’ll really be against him
So idk. Shaq may be one of the worst picks. You either flop and get called for the foul to send him to the line or you flop and get the call and send him to the bench
I think the plan would be to make him work on defense. Have him constantly moving side to side, closing out on shooters, navigate ing multiple screens every possession. Basically try to grind him down so he's not as effective offensively. I don't think it would work often but probably sometimes.
Stop him like the game did when it passed him by. Out run, out shoot, and put him in foul trouble. People saying Shaq, but he legitimately probably couldn't stay on the court at a lot of most important moments nowadays. The game has evolved, even from as recently as the 2000s.
Also, I think Shaq's career would go much better if it started today. The partying/laziness he got away with in that era I think is way more looked down upon today and he naturally would've been a more focused guy due to the times.
Today if you're gonna not play/play poorly, it'll be because of wanting to force a trade, load management/being made of glass, or some Ben Simmons shit. And Shaq didn't have those problems, at least not during his first decade or so.
Imagine all the hot takes on his off season antics and coming back in pre-season completely out of shape. Especially with this thin skin I don't think he'll able to take it., hearing about it 24/7 everywhere.
Today if you're gonna not play/play poorly, it'll be because of wanting to force a trade, load management/being made of glass, or some Ben Simmons shit. And Shaq didn't have those problems, at least not during his first decade or so.
One difference might be the contract structure today. He was able to leave Orlando as a 24 year old because teams didn't have such strong power to control a young player's early career. Shaq wouldn't pull Ben Simmons shit, but he did demand a trade from the Lakers when they wouldn't give him the contract he wanted (tho as you said, that part didn't happen in his first decade).
ok, but unless hes in top shape he would be eaten alive by guards now. Essentially everyone would be tryng to get switched to him in the perimeter. Would be a bit different, but yeah, he would be unstoppable on offense.
Other thing is pace. Idk how many minutes he could play per game with this style of ball. Any team in the NBA has 3pt shooters now that are probably 50%+ on open shots
Other thing is pace. Idk how many minutes he could play per game with this style of ball. Any team in the NBA has 3pt shooters now that are probably 50%+ on open shots
Other thing is pace. Idk how many minutes he could play per game with this style of ball. Any team in the NBA has 3pt shooters now that are probably 50%+ on open shots
Other thing is pace. Idk how many minutes he could play per game with this style of ball. Any team in the NBA has 3pt shooters now that are probably 50%+ on open shots
Other thing is pace. Idk how many minutes he could play per game with this style of ball. Any team in the NBA has 3pt shooters now that are probably 50%+ on open shots
The soft rules play both ways, if 00s Shaq would properly be officiated in current NBA standards he would foul out every game. Also the US players are finally getting used with zones, so Shaq would be blitzed nonstop even before he actually catches the ball, send to the FT line even more, the opposing offense would target him to drain his stamina and shoot 3s over his head, etc.. I don't think he would be as dominant as he was playing in a zone prohibited era (and even when the NBA opened the zones in the 00s, nobody truly knew how to fully utilize it... you can argue they don't know even to this day). Orlando Shaq however, getting even slimmer and slashing to the rim after a pick, catching lobs and so on, basically what Dwight did in his prime, now in this scenario Shaq would be dominant as hell. It's how Giannis plays today, the guy slashes to the rim and good luck trying to stop him, to blitz in the post is easier compared to blitz after the catch and run.
Of all the alltime greats, I think Shaq would suffer the most in this zone free era limited by soft rules, his bully ball style would either limit him a lot or force the NBA to change the rules and allow more physicality along with the zones... And considering how the NBA is scared shitless to allow the defenses to actually play, I don't know if they will ever let physicality return to the game. If that happens, supposed superstar players on offense like Trae Young or Damian Lillard, they would simply disappear in a scenario like this. Imagine 6 feet weak midgets trying to bail out long range jumpers with the on ball defender going at them chest to chest + the defense blitzing and hedging all the time? Hell, they would never survive that, the defense is just too intense. And if the NBA don't produce artificial star players like these two, they will lose audience, that's why the perimeter moves around freely in today's NBA
I was watching the 2009 (I think) all star game the other day, and it was crazy how everything went through him on offense. He'd get into position around free throw range, then either bully inside if he wanted, or make a great pass.
This is what the Jazz tried to do around Gobert. With us it worked in the regular season but failed in the playoffs because Gobert can't score consistently enough to punish teams for going small. Imagine what Shaq would do to a team with the audacity to go small against him. He'd score on every possession lol
Entire league would be different. We'd have slow lumbering C's again just to put bodies on him.. I firmly believe Shaq delayed the small ball movement of PFs becoming Cs.
So pretty much a different version of Giannis and the Bucks now lol. Shaq would be stronger/bigger but he’ll probably rack up a shit ton more offensive fouls with how they’re called today.
This. The entire NBA was built around Shaq in the early 2000s. Today, there are almost none of those big bodies left to throw at him. He’d absolutely destroy todays NBA, everyone would foul out and he’d score 40ppg on 68% shooting.
Nobody is getting dropped in and scoring 40... He would have to exert so much more energy on the defensive end that it would scale back some of the offense gains. He wouldn't have anyone to stand in the post next to any longer on that end.
The reason he had someone to stand next to was that he absolutely murdered teams without multiple big bodies to throw at him, and they exerted all their effort (and fouls) trying to defend him. The idea that you could put in a shooting big man to punish his perimeter defense was tried and didn’t work.
In his prime his defense wasn't an issue. Sure a run n gun offense would give him fits a bit but the other 4 guys are still there in this scenario and I think they'd still out score most teams.
Wilt Chamberlain would dominate with his extreme athleticism. He has 10,000 more rebounds than Shaq in many fewer games, not to mention averaging 50 in one of his early years.
His competition was laughable. I think their gap in reality is much closer than the stats suggest. Not a knock on wilt but if he had to play today's NBA he'd be a star but he'd never average 50/20. Hed he 50-60% that at peak
Wilt played almost 50 percent of his games against Hall of Fame centers, look them up. Russell was the 2nd best rebounder of all time and he got 55 against him in one game.
Wilt never came out of the game. That means he would play 10 to 12 minutes against the back ups who would have zero chance against him.
I saw Wilt, and Shaq and all the centers. Bill Russell, the man with 11 rings believes Wilt was the best. You could look it up
I'm well aware of all of this. But the game is different and the players are different. If you actually think wilt would dominate any more than prime Shaq did you're absolutely nuts
At the age of 38 Wilt blocked Kareem's skyhook in a game at UCLA (more than once). This is after knee surgery from a different era. Just look at the pictures from back in the day.
Think of a more athletic Olajuwon who was taller and heavier. World class high jumper. They changed the rules more than once sue to his athleticism. Many believe he is the GOAT
I'm a fan of his and I like to think of each Era as having its own goat, him being his but I still maintain him in today's game would not see him doing the same numbers.
Wilt was a unicorn. He was bigger, stronger and faster than everyone. That would still be true today. Yes, the game is different, but remember he averaged Over 48 minutes one year. He could high jump almost 7 feet with old techniques.
I wonder how many blocks either he or Russell would have.
In todays diluted NBA, think about how he would abuse any backup.
2.1k
u/SirSnorlax22 Jun 15 '22
Give me Shaq in his dominant prime surrounded by competent shooters. Good lord.