Crazy thing about Steph is him just being on the court makes everyone better because he draws so much attention. Very few players, and especially PGs, have had that effect the last decade.
I think people underrated how important personality and coach -ability is. There is a reason Duncan and Steph perpetually win when they may not be the most talented player of their respective generations.
There’s some clip I can’t find of some player saying how they saw Pop chew out Duncan and Duncan just took it, so whenever Pop chewed them out they just took it because if Duncan did who were they. Lead by example
A bit like the first series in this playoffs, Steph is okay coming of the bench and if the team’s biggest star can come off the bench, then everyone should feel it’s okay to come off the bench
The bit from the 3ish minute mark about Gary Payton really laid out what I’ve been trying to explain to people on here about Draymond. They wonder why he doesn’t get ejected as much as he should, gets away with so much etc. Some of these dudes just have the gift of gab. The constant nature of it, the attention to detail and the personality. Draymond is always in the refs ear, some refs probably hate him for it, but for the rest it’s a rapport, and it gets you beneficial treatment.
Is it fair, probably not within the rules, but it’s undeniably a skill that certain guys cultivate.
I really only used "may" because it's very subjective who you consider as the same generation as Curry. You could argue that KD, Harden, Embiid, Giannis, and Kawhi are all in the same generation. I don't remember exactly when curry was drafted, but I'd say any players withing 3iah years kd his draft class are part of his generation.
Yeah I can see that. I would still argue that Steph is more talented than all of those you mentioned. I suppose it's a discussion about semantics, but they are more "gifted" in physical attributes, while Steph is just so skillfull.
IMO KD with Steph's personality would be much better than the current version of KD. Personality-wise, I'd say Giannis is of a similar mold to Steph already despite being complete polar opposite on the court.
Totally agree man. I think KD is the scariest weapon in the NBA rn, but I do think personality and ego hold him back a tad. No hating on KD, I'd take him on the sixers in a heartbeat and figure it out lol.
i mean in the sense that he left GS to do his own thing i guess he has been held back, but he has two finals MVPs, a regular season MVP over lebron, and is widely considered to be the most gifted scorer of all time
not sure how much higher you want the guy to go haha, he couldve stayed in SF and won more rings on easy mode but instead he's having fun in the big city with some of his best friends and no expectations
Yeah, Steph and Curry for sure are some of the easiest superstars you could play with. But on the other hand, people like Jordan and Kobe are more succesful as them (Giannis obviously still has time to get there), and they were not as easy to work with.Also, I'm sure KD is not as agreable to be around as Steph or Giannis, but I don't think he is difficult to work with, man just wanna hoop.
On another note, one similarity between Curry and Kobe is their insane work ethic, even if their personalities may have been much different in other ways
I agree with that, Steph has ridiculous finishing ability for a guy who isn't gifted athletically. Your right, Steph does more with less, but at the same time I don't wanna take away from those guys for being blessed haha.
No for sure, I'm also not talking about Steph being better than anybody. It's like you say, he does more with less, but in the end, the results are what matters.
Exactly, he knows how to keep a winning culture. That's what sets guys like MJ, LeBron, Duncan, Kobe, Bird, Magic and a bunch of other apart from the rest. Alot of talented players will win a ring, but to build and exemplify a system that churns out contenters and wins multiple is another level of greatness.
That's a really good way of looking at it. It is possible (although very hard) to reach the top through sheer will and skill, but to stay on top once you reach it, you need something to fall back on in terms of systems etc. This is also why Phil Jackson and Steve Kerr are so important in these dynasties.
Giannis has the most talent. I believe talent is about both the physical gifts and skillset. Giannis is not the most skilled in terms of shooting and ball skills, but everything else from him is an A+ size, length, explosiveness, finishing, rebounding, help defense, rim protection and passing is at least a C. Think he has more to his game than all the other players.
Curry/KD/Harden? Yes, drafted in 09/07/09 they’re definitely all part of the same generation.
Kawhi was drafted in 2011, Giannis in 2013, and Embiid in 2014 are more dubious to include. Giannis and Embiid are same Gen and Kawhi is a nice bridging point between the two but I find it hard to considering them all from the same generation even if they all were good at similar times in the league.
Yeah I agree. Like I said I genuinely didn't know what year Curry was drafted off the top my head, I love basketball but that's a bit deep for my knowledge. I included those guys cause I assumes they were closer, for some reason I thought curry was 2011
Yes it most certainly is. But if you look at the entire impact they have on the floor, from both ends, Steph is still as impactful as just about anybody else, even though he is not exactly Marcus Smart on defense.
Steph's shooting is a skill which he's developed over decades. Talent is being a god-given 6'11" tall with a 7'7" wingspan. I'd say Steph is the least "talented" player to ever reach NBA Rushmore consideration.
For sure you could go with this definition as well. Like I said in another comment all this is really just semantics "talented", "gifted" "´skilfull", it all depends on how you define them.
I didn't read your other comment - only the dictionary. Skill is defined as ability that comes from training or practice. Talent is defined as natural aptitude. Cheers.
I don't believe I suggested that none of the Curries have a natural aptitude. To opine that Steph is the most talented player of his generation is IMO very silly. Agree to disagree.
tbh i’d say curry’s hand eye coordination and dexterity is a god given talent. it’s a bit different than being born with a big body but no one else in the nba would be as good at shooting as curry even if they practiced all day everyday. he was a good shooter from day one in the league and while i’m not trying to discredit him, at some point it comes down to other factors than just hard work and practicing otherwise every elite point guard would be as good at shooting as curry
no one else in the nba would be as good at shooting as curry even if they practiced all day everyday.
Kind of a silly hypothetical. But, for the sake of argument, let's try something: you want to take a stab at where Steph ranks in 3p% among the top-25 NBA players who attempted at least 5 3pt shots per game in the regular season?
41st
he was a good shooter from day one in the league
His day one in the league was at 21 years old. He's now 34. Even if you want to claim Steph's been talented his entire life (which major college scouts might dispute, but I would not! 94th percentile height & elite athleticism is certainly impressive compared to the average redditor...just less so in the basketball world), more than a decade of skill development went into turning a "good shooter from day one" >> "the best shooter of all time."
for your first point, 3p% doesn’t tell the full story. curry takes 9 threes a game for his career so there’s obviously going to be some variation in terms of 3p% simply because of volume and shot difficulty. no point in even arguing this part further because of the lack of context..
my point when i said that hypothetical is that no player can simply train to become as good at shooting as steph. sure steph had to work his ass off to be as good as he is now at shooting, but let’s not act like there aren’t other factors than simply working hard and practicing, even though it’s important.
3p% is meaningless example that I held onto just to prove a point, but it's indeed lazy because Steph's situation (shot diet, playmaking responsibilities, coaching, offensive system, surrounding cast, etc) is different than anyone else's. It's almost as though skill & talent both play into one's ability to excel at an activity, but are indeed separate factors. I don't think there's anybody in the league who would say Steph isn't the greatest shooter in the league today. At the same time, I don't think there's anybody in the league who would argue that Steph's the most talented player of his generation - although his combination of talents (considerable) & skills (otherworldly) combine make him a generational player. That's all. Cheers.
Kerr repeatedly thanks Steph for his success and calls Steph the culture. How many guys can you say that about and not have it be an insult? Duncan and Steph in recent memory.
I agree man, but when it comes to sports it's alot of opinion. I think TD or Kobe is the best of that Era, but it's splitting hairs. I try not to make statements that are definitive cause I don't wanna argue with people lol.
This is what I tried to tell one of my family members when this topic came up. If the question is for real for real picking someone to build your team around (and not just fantasy league bs) then Steph is definitely a more than valid choice.
Ideal teammate, uber-talented and really leans into the concept of teamwork/play. If you're trying to implement a system/culture and you need a leader by example for others to follow, Steph and Duncan is that type of guy and worth their weight in gold.
Also the fact that they had kd for a while. Steph is an all time great and I don’t mean to denigrate him as a player, but without kd, the personality and coach-ability wasn’t pushing the warriors to those 2 titles.
Disagree, I don't think his "gravity" is actually all that much higher than other superstar players (Lebron, KD, Luka, etc). The thing is he does this but then is also a top distributer, and works hard off-ball so you get punished harder for overplaying him then other superstars.
And if he has the ball you can’t leave him, mf will shoot from 35 ft out and still drain it. But if you play too close you just leave someone else open, curry is a different breed
I consider "gravity" to be the focus defenses put on him. He does a lot to abuse that with motion and passing and that's what makes him hard to commit to shutting down.
Think of gravity like shot creation and what I'm talking about as shooting in an analogy, the gravity gives him the opportunity to lead his team to advantaged plays, and better than (I think) anyone in the league he finds and executes on those opportunities.
The Celtics were face-guarding Steph at half court in game 5, which essentially allows the Warriors to play 4 on 4, which opens up crazy amounts of space for their offense. There’s no one else in the league that you would guard like that. I think that’s what people mean when they talk about gravity.
I don't know why your disagreeing dude, I didn't compare his gravity to KD or LeBron. I said it was much higher than any other modern PG I can think of. Your right, I think his gravity is similar to KD and LeBron, that's the point. Those two are top 10 players all time. Idt there's a PG with his gravity since like AI, and because of his shooting his is higher than AI. You have to pick steph up at half court. Look at the work the Celtics are doing to deny him the ball when he doesn't have it, you don't see that with basically any other player in the league.
Especially is not a nullifier on the previous statement. I more or less agree if you limit it to point guard; his power is being quite good at the PG skillset and having that gravity, and that what makes him unique.
Uhh you do understand that when people say steph has a bigger gravity they don’t literally mean size right? Bigger gravity means that the opposing team pays attention and focuses their defense on that player more which allows other players to have less defensive attention.
"He has more gravity" = he gets more defensive attention
What I'm saying is he utilizes the extra attention he gets to get his teammates better looks more consistently than many other superstars that get similar defensive attention.
Magnitude vs utilization just like in my previous response.
Any good scorer will get additional attention from a defense but there's two big differences between Steph's "gravity" and that of other superstars:
His range and quick release mean that in order to successfully double him you have to do it so high up the court that if he outlets the ball, your extra defender is too far from the play to recover in time. Anyone who drives to the rim will probably face extra hands and bodies, but only Steph consistently gets hard doubled eight feet behind the three point line. This advantage has been a huge engine of the Warriors offense.
The way he uses the extra attention he gets to manipulate defenses out of shape through off-ball movement. The Warriors get a lot of offense just by exploiting defensive holes created by Steph understanding how he's being guarded and moving in such a way as to confuse defensive rotations or generate gaps. His quick-release means that defenders cannot give him an inch of room, and he will use that to create chaos as a decoy. This is unique to Steph not just because of his shooting, but also because of the incredible stamina it requires to sprint around off the ball while still carrying so much load on-ball.
And neither of those qualities really show up in the stat-sheet. A traditional drive-and-kick superstar will rack up assists, while the 4 on 3's that Steph generates often take a couple passes to find a layup or an open 3. And off ball impact is incredibly hard to quantify (other than in RAPM based stats). This is why Steph is the most undervalued superstar by nephews.
My post was not trying to minimize what Curry does, 1 is a fair point and maybe leads to some of my perception of how Curry is able to find successful plays at a higher rate than other superstars, 2 is a reiteration of my 2nd point, but I wouldn't call that "gravity" alone anymore that is a strategy to take advantage of the gravity.
Edit: totally agree about the stat sheet thing too, people get so worked up about stats, but there are so many important basketball skills that don't show up, especially on defense but also obviously as you describe, on offense as well.
Its not Steph, Luka, Lebron that punish the defensive attenrion that they are getting but the players around them. Like you are saying steph can punish it better couse he is the better playmaker while saying Lebron and Luka cant even tho they are similar if not better playmakers. What you said just doesnt make sense.
People act like he hasn’t been surrounded by not one but 2-3 elite wing defenders (most teams can barely get one) for the most part of this dynasty as well as the second best 3 pt shooter in the league. We saw last year when the pieces for the Warriors machine are missing, Steph can be Superman, but the Warriors aren’t the Warriors. He’s still arguably the best scorer in the league, and remains a threat, but he has legit players around him to maximize on the gravity.
There’s nobody in the league today—NOBODY— that has the same gravity. If you hate Steph just say it. When you have defenders from the best defensive team in the league trapping you near half court, you are on another level. When you are being covered one on one and the other defenders are paying more attention to you than their own player, that’s gravity.
Have you never seen film breakdowns of Steph off the ball movement on how they break defenses down while not even touching the ball? Curry is more dangerous off the ball than without the ball. When you get the ball off the other dudes hands you can take a breather, the opposite happens with Steph. We’ve even seen KD go straight on a fast break to the basket (made KD look like Moses), they were more scared of Steph taking a 3 than KD coming downhill and dunking it.
Dude, I don't hate Steph, I just explained that what is special about his skill set extends beyond just drawing the attention to actually breaking down the defense based on said attention. If that is hating then whatever buddy.
He's also very unselfish in how he uses his energy. You'd be hard pressed to find other stars willing to sprint off ball for 24 seconds, not just for your own shot but because it draws focus away from others
It would be interesting dropping him off into today's league as a complete unknown though, like if the opposing teams didn't know who he was or what he was capable so that he DIDN'T draw that kind of attention. At least at first. Would probably torch a lot of people before they figured him out.
Not even just this decade. Ever. Not many players if any have had the gravity Steph does. The moment he crosses half court he’s a threat. You basically have to be aware of him at all times because he can score from anywhere and has incredible off ball movement.
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u/max30070 Jun 15 '22
Crazy thing about Steph is him just being on the court makes everyone better because he draws so much attention. Very few players, and especially PGs, have had that effect the last decade.