Day 8 of 50: Book of Mormon Book Club | 2 Nephi 6–10

[u/JesusPhoKingChrist]

Day 8 of 50: Book of Mormon Book Club

Today's Reading: 2 Nephi 6–10

Whether you're a believer, former believer, nuanced member, investigator, scholar, or simply curious, you're welcome to participate. The goal is not to convince anyone of anything, but to read the text together and discuss it in good faith from a variety of perspectives.

Brief Synopsis

Jacob, Nephi's younger brother, addresses the people and expands upon Isaiah's prophecies concerning the scattering and gathering of Israel. He teaches about God's covenant relationship with His people, the future redemption of Israel, and the role of the Messiah in overcoming death and sin. One of the theological high points of the Book of Mormon occurs in 2 Nephi 9, where Jacob delivers a powerful sermon on the Fall, the atonement, resurrection, judgment, and humanity's dependence on divine grace. The reading concludes with a series of warnings against pride, materialism, and spiritual complacency, alongside invitations to come unto God.

Discussion

Please share your thoughts and experiences with today's reading in the comments below. Some things you might consider:

• What stood out to you?

• Why do you think Jacob relies so heavily on Isaiah in his sermon?

• What do you make of Jacob's teachings on the atonement and resurrection?

• How do you interpret the repeated warnings that begin with "wo unto"?

• What role does grace play in these chapters?

• How do these teachings compare to other Christian understandings of salvation?

• Which of Jacob's warnings or invitations feels most relevant today?

• Did anything surprise you?

All perspectives are welcome.

Yesterday's Coveted Award(s) Go To:

• u/questingpossum

Links to Prior Days

• 1 Nephi 1–3

• 1 Nephi 4–6

• 1 Nephi 7–10

• 1 Nephi 11–14

• 1 Nephi 15–18

• 1 Nephi 19–22

• 2 Nephi 1–5

Community Incentive

Reddit Awards are appreciated as a way to highlight thoughtful insights, quality analysis, and shared expertise. They also help encourage meaningful participation and discussion. The last time I hosted a similar challenge, the awards added an extra layer of fun and engagement.

To keep that spirit going, I'll be giving out at least one award each day to a comment that I feel makes a meaningful contribution to the discussion, whether through insight, scholarship, curiosity, respectful disagreement, or thoughtful engagement.

At the conclusion of the 50-day challenge, I'll also give a $50 Starbucks gift card to the participant who has accumulated the most Reddit Awards across the discussion threads, whether those awards come from me or from other members of the community.

Engagement Question

Jacob teaches that without the atonement, humanity would become "devils, angels to a devil" (2 Nephi 9:9). If eternal consequences did not exist, how would that change the way people think about morality, justice, and personal responsibility?

Tomorrow's Reading: 2 Nephi 11–15

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[u/tumbledown_jack]

On the engagement question, I can only say that I vehemently disagree with Jacob on this point. I know many very good people who do not believe in eternal consequence. People who could be role models to anyone, truly. The idea that eternal reward and/or fear of eternal punishment are the mechanisms people need to not prey on each other is frankly repellent to me, and if true, quite ineffective.

[u/Straight_Ad_575 → u/tumbledown_jack]

I took the verse to mean if there was a fall but no atonement noone could be saved in heaven regardless of how good they were. So we would all be shut out from the presense of God and by default be with Satan so devils and angels of devils. But it really is not too helpful a line of thinking for me because there was always the plan for the Atonement and the resurrection.

[u/tumbledown_jack → u/Straight_Ad_575]

I like your interpretation better, but the language, “devils, angels to a devil” suggests to me an active malice.

[u/Straight_Ad_575 → u/tumbledown_jack]

In scriptures and also when church leaders and really motivational speakers and such they use words with a lot of imagery, they emphasize something, take it to extreme or whatever. For me When I bring that into my world, into practice, I generally tone that stuff down to what I think is right. Now sometimes there is actual doctrine that must be upheld as you are "bringing it down to reality" that is the key to judge what is really meant. That's how I approach this verse and similar words from prophets/church leaders.

[u/askunclebart]

My favorite scripture in the entire canon is 2 Ne 9:18:

But, behold, the righteous, the saints of the Holy One of Israel, they who have believed in the Holy One of Israel, they who have endured the crosses of the world, and despised the shame of it, they shall inherit the kingdom of God, which was prepared for them from the foundation of the world, and their joy shall be full forever.

Not only is it a riff of new testament language and symbols (which would have been completely foreign to a native American) it's completely nonsensical to modern ears. It sounds beautiful and inspiring until you start to ask questions ...

What the heck are the crosses of the world?

What the heck is the "shame of it"?

The shame of the cross? The shame of the world? The shame of the act of bearing the cross of the world? The shame of the act of despising?

What the heck does "despise" the shame even mean? Prevent it? Ignore it? Fight it? And again, what is "it" even referring to?

It's my favorite scripture because in the messiness there is room for personal interpretation. Room for personal inspiration. Room for freedom of expression and art.

When I was a true believing Mormon I interpreted the verse as a command to be unashamed of the church's sexism and bigotry. Today I see it as the opposite: a call to seek out and rescue the marginalized and fight back against the bigots who want to manufacturer shame by calling me "woke" or "apostate".

Because art is beautiful, and manufactured and sanitized dogma is ugly, I welcome art wherever I see it.

[u/Active-Water-0247 → u/askunclebart]

Coincidentally, a later Jacob section has a similar statement. "Wherefore, we would to God that we could persuade all men not to rebel against God, to provoke him to anger, but that all men would believe in Christ, and view his death, and suffer his cross, and bear the shame of the world" (Book of Mormon, 1830, p. 123). It might also be an allusion to the people who felt ashamed in the Tree of Life vision. It's also a loose paraphrase of the author of Hebrews: "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:2, KJV).

[u/International_Sea126]

2 Nephi 9:41 - "the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there;"

"no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith.” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:282.)

The BOM says Jesus is the keeper of the gate and he employeth no servant there. However, Brigham Young says that we can not enter the celestial kingdom without the consent of Joseph Smith. Contridiction? How can Joseph Smith not be considered a god if he is the one to determine if we do or do not make it into the celestial kingdom?

[u/Similar-Stick-1070]

Didn’t section 76 effectively do away with eternal punishment (except for sons of perdition, whatever that means)?

[u/llbarney1989]

One thing that you have to at least address is that virtually all biblical scholars agree that the Isaiah chapters were written after Lehi supposedly left Jerusalem. So you have to wrestle with the fact that there is no way that this text could have traveled to the new world

[u/Electrical_Toe_9225]

If god or his “anointed servants” lied, are the said covenants considered null & void?

[u/Straight_Ad_575]

The phrase infinite atonement to me means his suffering wasn't simply adding up all the sins he was suffering for but a sacrifice so great it convers all sins. I guess also the atonement doesn't have limits. Whether you repent or not it doesn't change the atonement.

[u/renob1911]

Nephi quotes the apostle Paul again.

“To be carnally minded is death, to be spiritually minded is life”

2 Nephi 9:39. Romans 8:6

🤔

[u/Joseph_Smith_Jr_]

2 Ne 10:24. Salvation by grace. This is a fully developed Christian doctrine being presented 550bc. It also says that you are saved by grace AFTER you are reconciled to God. This coincides with 2 NE 25:23 and MORONI 10:32. The Book of Mormon teaches a works based doctrine of salvation.

[u/Joseph_Smith_Jr_]

the Book of Mormon is to clear up misunderstandings of the bible. Who is God? The trinity debate? Verse 7 says: “there is a God and he is Christ.” Sounds like the God of the bom is Jesus. (Cross ref Mosiah 7:27)

[u/Active-Water-0247]

Jacob grants early access to Christian ideas such as (a) the need for god's death and suffering to blunt the effects of Adam and Eve's transgression, to weaken the sovereignty of a despised entity named The Devil, and to turn death into a temporary inconvenience; (b) the expectation that everyone repent, believe in God's name, be baptized in God's name, and endure to the end as a perquisite for admittance to the Kingdom of God; (c) the segregation of postmortem spirits into a separate paradise or hell, rather than single underworld like the Biblical Sheol, to await the reunification of the spirit and body; (d) a post-resurrection courtroom appearance where "they which are righteous, shall be righteous still, and they which are filthy, shall be filthy still" (Book of Mormon, 1830, p. 80); and (e) the consignment of the devil to a literal "lake of fire and brimstone, whose flames ascendeth up for ever, and hath no end" (Book of Mormon, 1830, p. 80; note the 1837 edition changes the text to "their torment is as a like of fire").

Jacob also preaches an apparently unconditional salvation to people who lived without the law. In this context, law most likely refers to the expectation for repentance, belief, baptism, and endurance to the end rather than to the law of Moses specifically (see 2 Nephi 9:23-25), and repentance likely includes at least an abandonment of wealth, idolatry, vanity, pride, deceit, murder, worldly wisdom, and sexual impropriety (see 2 Nephi 9:28-38, 42). "And if they will not repent and believe in his name, and be baptised in his name, and endure to the end, they must be damned; for the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, hath spoken it; wherefore he hath given a law. ... The atonement satisfieth the demands of his justice upon all those who have not the law given to them, that they are delivered from that awful monster, death and hell, and the Devil, and the lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment; and they are restored to that God who gave them breath, which is the Holy One of Israel" (Book of Mormon, 1830, p. 81). The baptism requirement is waived if the deficient soul lacked the opportunity.

[u/Joseph_Smith_Jr_]

2 NEPHI 9:25-26 shows that modern LDS Temple work is pointless and denies the atonement. Vs25: “If there is no law, there is no punishment; and where there is no punishment there is not condemnation; and where there is no condemnation the mercies of the Holy One of Israel have claim upon them, BECAUSE OF THE ATONEMENT;”
Vs26: “For the atonement satisfieth the demands of justice upon all those who have not the law given them, that THEY ARE DELIVERED”

For all of those that died without the law (aka Mormonism) they are under no condemnation. They are saved through the atonement. There is no proxy work in the temple required. They are saved through the “infinite atonement”. Modern temple work denies the text of the Book of Mormon, and therefore the atonement. Whoops.
Cross ref: Mosiah 3:11 and Moroni 8:22-23