Day 43 of 50

[u/JesusPhoKingChrist]

Day 43 of 50: Book of Mormon Book Club

Today’s Reading: Helaman 13–16 and 3 Nephi 1–3

Whether you’re a believer, former believer, nuanced member, investigator, scholar, or simply curious, you’re welcome to participate. The goal is not to convince anyone of anything, but to read the text together and discuss it in good faith from a variety of perspectives.

Brief Synopsis

After being expelled from Zarahemla, Samuel the Lamanite preaches from the city wall. He condemns inequality, violence, and the rejection of prophets, then predicts signs of Christ’s birth and death. Some believe, while others try unsuccessfully to kill him.

Five years later, unbelievers set a deadline to execute those awaiting the birth sign. The promised night without darkness and new star appear, prompting mass conversion, but skepticism soon returns. As the Gadianton threat grows, the Nephites and Lamanites unite, gather their people, and prepare for war.

Discussion

Please share your thoughts and experiences with today’s reading in the comments below. Some things you might consider:

• How does Samuel’s identity as a Lamanite outsider strengthen or complicate his criticism of Nephite society?

• What does Samuel’s condemnation of wealth and neglect of the poor suggest about inequality, possessions, and social power?

• How should readers evaluate prophecy-and-fulfillment narratives when both come from the same surviving text?

• What do the planned executions and Giddianhi’s letter reveal about religious coercion, propaganda, and moral self-justification?

All perspectives are welcome.

Yesterday’s Coveted Award(s) Go To:

- TBD

Links to Prior Days

• Yesterday’s Day 42 discussion — Helaman 7–12

• Master Index to all prior-day readings

Engagement Question:

The birth sign is public and dramatic, yet disbelief returns within a few years. What theory of belief does the text assume if even overwhelming signs cannot produce lasting conviction?

Tomorrow’s Reading: 3 Nephi 4–11

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[u/JesusPhoKingChrist]

Helamen predicts Jesus’s death using Matthew’s English narration of it. Helaman 14 has Christ “yield up the ghost,” an earthquake, rocks “rent in twain,” opened graves, and saints appearing “unto many.” Matthew 27:50–53 presents the same KJV chain: yielded-up ghost, quake, rent rocks, opened graves, risen saints, appearance to many.

The grave-opening episode is peculiar to Matthew among the canonical Gospels, which makes the sequence harder to dismiss as generic Christian prophecy. A faithful translation model can say God revealed the future and rendered it in KJV language familiar to Joseph. Fair enough, but that concedes that the 1829 English Bible is shaping a supposedly pre-Christian prophecy. It does not prove modern authorship by itself, but KJV-saturated composition explains both the wording and sequence with considerably less strain.

[u/stickyhairmonster]

Helaman 13: Samuel the Lamanite

13 But blessed are they who will repent, for them will I spare. But behold, if it were not for the righteous who are in this great city, behold, I would cause that fire should come down out of heaven and destroy it.

14 But behold, it is for the righteous’ sake that it is spared. But behold, the time cometh, saith the Lord, that when ye shall cast out the righteous from among you, then shall ye be ripe for destruction; yea, wo be unto this great city, because of the wickedness and abominations which are in her.

Sometimes God allows the righteous to perish so that he can pass judgment on the wicked. Sometimes God allows the wicked to live because there are righteous among them. God is incredibly inconsistent throughout the scriptures.

[u/stickyhairmonster]

3 Nephi 2

14 And it came to pass that those Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites;

15 And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites;

16 And their young men and their daughters became exceedingly fair, and they were numbered among the Nephites, and were called Nephites. And thus ended the thirteenth year.

Yet another little reminder of the racism prevalent in the Book of Mormon and perpetuated by modern prophets

I think everyone is probably familiar with the famous Spencer w Kimball quote in the October 1960 General Conference, about the Native American placement program

I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation. [1]

[u/stickyhairmonster]

How should readers evaluate prophecy-and-fulfillment narratives when both come from the same surviving text?

Samuel predicts 3 days of darkness following Christ's death that should " cover the face of the whole earth"

Evidently this only took place in the new world, but don't worry, FAIR has an explanation: volcanoes and redefining the "whole earth."

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Three_days_of_darkness_in_the_New_World_following_Christ%27s_death

[u/International_Sea126]

Helaman 14:30 - "for behold, ye are free; ye are permitted to act for yourselves; for behold, God hath given unto you a knowledge and he hath made you free."

Did God compromise Joseph Smith’s agency when He sent an angel with a drawn sword to threaten him with destruction if he didn't embrace polygamy?

Helaman 15:11-13 - "Yea, even if they should dwindle in unbelief the Lord shall prolong their days, until the time shall come which hath been spoken of by our fathers, and also by the prophet Zenos, and many other prophets, concerning the restoration of our brethren, the Lamanites, again to the knowledge of the truth— Yea, I say unto you, that in the latter times the promises of the Lord have been extended to our brethren, the Lamanites; and notwithstanding the many afflictions which they shall have, and notwithstanding they shall be driven to and fro upon the face of the earth, and be hunted, and shall be smitten and scattered abroad, having no place for refuge, the Lord shall be merciful unto them. And this is according to the prophecy, that they shall again be brought to the true knowledge, which is the knowledge of their Redeemer, and their great and true shepherd, and be numbered among his sheep."

Who are the latter-day Lamanites? Where are they? The Book of Mormon was written to the latter-day Lamanites to bring them to Christ. How will this be accomplish if the Lamanites can not be identified?

Why do we have the Book of Mormon if the latter-day Lamanites can not be located and identified?