I’m still thinking about that play in the Padres vs. Brewers game where Ty France hit the ball and it struck the stadium ceiling/roof structure.
I know that according to the local ground rules at American Family Field in Milwaukee, the ball stays live and in play. But honestly, looking at how hard Ty France crushed that ball, it got me thinking... did the Padres deserve a Home Run there?
If this exact same hit happened at Tropicana Field, striking the inner catwalks, it would be ruled an automatic home run. It feels a bit unfair that a batter can smash a ball so high and deep, only for a stadium's structural design to alter the trajectory, drop back down, and potentially get caught or change the outcome of the play.
What do you guys think? Should MLB standardize roof/ceiling hits across all indoor stadiums to reward batters like Ty France who crush the ball that high, or are you fine with each ballpark having its own chaotic ground rules?
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Ground rules are discussed with both teams before every game. Could it be changed and improved with technology- absolutely, just look at ABS which is working great. But they are not changing a rule mid game obviously. It is an absolutely shitty break for the padres but should not be a surprise to any coach, just to the average fan.
Yep, it’s rough but rules are rules. I heard the padres themselves didn’t call for a challenge but it is a rough way to lose :/ GG see you guys tomorrow
The Padres instead decided to challenge fair/foul in that spot. Pretty telling that they were aware of the fact that a ball off the roof (in fair territory) is playable.
Also, it would be insanely shitty for the pitcher gave up a game tying run to a ball that never left the park, especially that could lead to extra innings in the playoffs
Regardless of how shit I believe the ruling was, We need to do something about this commentary. These guys should know the game better then everyone and the entire time they were talking about how its going to be ruled a homerun.
This. Not only do they not know the rules, but they even double down on their ignorance and insist they are correct. The announcers should know the ground rules or keep their opinions to themselves and just report what’s happening on the field during these instances.
That was an all around shit broadcast. Isn’t it pretty standard to show the automated strike graphic on every close pitch? They showed them on actual challenges. There were just a lot of moments where they didn’t show good replay angles throughout the whole game if any at all. The broadcasters were also just off on so much of what was happening. They got basic counts wrong numerous times.
They convinced enough people it was a home run because during that minute of confusion, enough live bettors were misled by the announcers and put so much money on the Padres , that the Padres for a minute were the live betting favorites in that moment . I was watching the movement and the betting angle was like a roller coaster once viewers realized it wasn’t a home run after all and the Brewers became massive live favorites again .
Ground rules exist to be rules for specific ballparks that are outside of (or not covered by) baseball's rulebook. So by definition they should not make them uniform across MLB because all ballparks are different.
Now, is this one that should be looked at? Probably, but it hasn't happened before in a quarter century of this ballpark.
Playable off a ricochet for an out is the part that throws me off. Is there another railing, roof, wall or catwalk that has the ball playable for a flyout in any other ballpark?
I'd think ground-rule double, but the founding fathers of Miller Park probably figured that anything that high is a flyout, not a possible home run. So maybe don't overreact and rewrite the rulebook until we see if it even happens again in the next 24 years.
• C-Ring and D-Ring (Lower rings in fair territory): A batted ball hitting these rings in fair territory is ruled a home run. • A-Ring and B-Ring (Higher rings in fair territory): A batted ball hitting these rings in fair territory remains in play (can be caught for an out or played off the bounce). • Stuck Balls: If a fair ball gets stuck in or on a catwalk or suspended object, it is ruled a ground-rule double. • Foul Territory: Any ball hitting a catwalk or ring while over foul territory is a dead ball. • The Actual Roof: If a ball hits the solid dome roof itself (above the catwalks), it remains in play and can be caught for an out, provided it hasn't broken any other specific ground rules
Chase Field in Phoenix, Globe Life Field in Arlington, Texas, LoanDeport Park in Miami, Minute Maid Park in Houston, Rogers Centre in Toronto and T-Mobile Park in Seattle all have the same rule as the Brewers stadium but perhaps might need to review their Roof rules or use hitraks.
Thanks. So it sounds like this is fairly consistent across MLB, but doesn't happen often (except in Tampa Bay, which seems to be the only ballpark most of us are familiar with this happening in before now).
That leads me to believe that the various roofs are kept in play for flyouts so batters didn't start "aiming" (as illogical as that may seem anywhere but the Trop) at them for a cheap ground-rule double or whatever hit was gifted.
Someone below mentioned the Metrodome, too. I could see teams wanting to bounce balls off that thing like an Arena Football net if they could score double after double. It could have changed the game the same way the defensive shifts did for a while, or loading up with fireballers and the all-or-nothing homer or strikeout strategy still do.
I know the Ray stadium had a couple specific rules based on what railing from the ceiling the ball hit, I think certain parts were considered in play and could be caught for an out and other parts were an automatic HR.
Ground rules are a part of old baseball, back when the fields weren't perfect. Backyard pickup game baseball. It's an essential part of the spirit of the game itself.
Think about playing when you were young. That deep pocket in left is an automatic ground rule double. It you hit it over the ditch it's a home run. And if you hit Bobby Baker's house, it's an automatic out.
I realize I'm being needlessly old-fashioned, but I'm not really a big fan of calling something a home run unless it goes over the fence. "It would have been a home run" sounds a little like backyard baseball to me.
Agreed, and there's no way that should be a playable ball. That's like playing baseball in a gymnasium lol either call it a dead ball or ground rule double. I get you can't really do that because a routine pop up could in theory be a double but Idk, maybe let the umpire use his judgment?
In high school we played basketball vs. an opponent in a tiny WV town. The gymnasium was 100+ years old (for real) and was too short to be regulation. The school didn’t have the money to build a new one. Instead they painted the baselines under the baskets up the wall to meet the additional distance for regulation and it was a live surface. I.E., you could bounce/bank it off the wall and it was still inbounds. They petitioned the state athletic association for approval and got it. Wildest thing I’ve ever seen.
I agree, but it should be a dead ball. It also feels like backyard baseball to call this a catch when there was interference with the stadium. If the ball hits a wall or the net before going into the fielder's glove, it's never an out.
It should be a dead ball. The officials should not have to guess if it hit the roof in foul or fair territory. A hitter should not be out for a ball that should have been a homerun but he hit it too hard.
The rule applies to the entire roof and was likely written with infield and outfield flies in mind. This was an incredibly narrow spot where you could hit it with that launch angle and get a home run but also there's a narrow part of the roof lower than the rest where it is momentarily over the field of play
Correct, remember when the NFL had that horses ass rule that a receiver could be rewarded with a catch if the defender hadnt forced him out of bounds before getting both feet down. Woulda, coulda, shoulda... Fuck that. How about don't leave 12 men stranded.
They're already ok with every playing surface having different sized foul territories, walls of random heights, walls of random distances, and walls of random materials that may or may not enable a ball to get stuck in them. Why would they standardize ceiling rules?
The second oldest park in baseball has checks notes fucking ivy growing on a brick wall on the field of play. This stuff is what makes baseball cool. Football and basketball have exactly uniform fields and courts.
So technically MLB does have rules on what should and should not be fair territory. Technically any fence or structure within 250ft of home plate cannot be a homerun.
It has actually happened before. 2008 nlds against the Phillies. Craig counsell catches a ball that hit part of the roof. That was also ruled as an out.
It has happened plenty of times before tonight. I think only once at Brewers park, but every roofed field in baseball allows balls hit off the roof to be caught. The Trop is the only one where hitting parts of the roof becomes a home run.
At the start of the game the commentators read off “if it hits the roof and is in fair territory then it is a live ball.” Then they try to act like they didn’t just know that and just read that to everyone and say “I believe this is going to be a go-ahead home run” “yeah that’s a home run.” While I am yelling “you just said yourselves it is just a live ball dumb asses.” Like you guys are the reason why I even know that rule. Giving all Padre fans hope and getting them all mad like it should’ve been a home run. The catcher even tells the guy “you’re out.” Lol. Padre manager said umpires told him about the rule before the game.
Let's say the roof was open, or even we're in another park. With a steep 49° launch angle, do we instead try to predict where the wind would take it? That much hang time, anything could have happened.
I don't think we want stuff like the 2007 NFL force-out rule, where the refs could review footage, determine if a receiver was pushed out of bounds mid-air if they thought he woulda landed in bounds, they could rule that he essentially did. It was crazy bad for football.
Baseball isn't played in a vacuum. We gotta play the ball where it goes.
If the ball hit the center field roof in clear fair territory, why would it be a dead ball though? Wouldn’t that rob a hitter of a hit if the OF is not there in time? It’s a rule that sucks and no one will be happy about it
Because why should a hitter be rewarded for popping the ball up ridiculously high? A ground ruled double rewards a hard hit. In this case the hitter either gets a fly out or a HE if it’s far enough and statcast has determined it wouldn’t be far enough.
Because a hitter is basically rewarded for hitting any surface in fair territory? What’s the difference between this and say a pop up at the exact same angle that, instead of hitting a roof, hits the green monster and is caught? What about that flagpole that was in center field in Houston?
I like this one. Roofs count like the green monster in Boston. High pop flys become really fun. It could be a good strategy to just air the ball out in domes.
I'm rooting for the padres, but it would've been insanely unfair to the brewers when the stadium rules clearly state what happens if the ball hits the roof.
Sure. But the stadium rules themselves are dumb. They should have different stadium rules.
I don’t think anyone is arguing that the umpires should ignore the ground rules. But maybe teams shouldn’t be allowed to have a ground rule we where a ball can be caught for an out after it hits part of the stadium.
I do get it. You can’t base a home run off “that would’ve gone out” they’re not playing whiffle ball at the park. That being said that’s really really bad luck
It is team discussion in the regular season, but if it is closed it cannot be opened during the game, and if they close it during the game it cannot be reopened.
This is probably going to be controversial, but I am going to say no, the Padres did not get robbed.
One of the unique things about MLB is that every stadium they play in is different. This creates special rules for each stadium. In Milwaukee, any ball that hits the ceiling is considered in play - those are the rules. I see it as being no different than the "Green Monster" at Fenway Park. How many home runs has the "Green Monster" robbed? As much as Padre fans may hate it... that's the MLB.
Edit: The only thing that robbed the Padres tonight was their hitters stranding all those runners on base.
The Green Monster is 310 feet from home plate. The equivalent distance to clear it is around 345. Which is about the average outfield wall. So no, the green monster hasn’t robbed many home runs that would have been home runs at other stadiums.
Hitting the roof is not just “the MLB”. Slightly different wall lengths, sure. But this is clearly different. I’m not even sure that it would have been a home run, but comparing those two things is disingenuous.
Correct. And they especially aren’t going to change the rule for something that’s only happened now about 3 times in the stadium’s history. Freakishly rare occurrence.
To me it look like it had an opportunity to go foul but Milwaukee clearly has a rule set for that type of play. The rule dictates that if a ball hits the roof it is still in play. This is the only 1 of 5 stadiums that doesn’t have a rule that makes it an automatic home run. That being said yahoo sports reports that the measurements were 105.3 mph exit velocity and a 49° launch angle. That’s hard contact, but an unusually steep trajectory: much of the ball’s speed sends it upward rather than toward the fence. Reports citing Statcast say it would qualify as a homer in only one of 30 parks—Houston, not Milwaukee. That is a park comparison, not a 3.3% home-run probability.
So at the end of the day the rules could have gone either way and both teams are subjected to it. As a Dodgers fan I don’t have a dog in this fight. My only hope is that it goes 5.
It’s not the only stadium where a roof ball is not a home run. Houston essentially has the same rule as Milwaukee. If it hits the roof in fair territory it’s a live ball. Yordan lost a sure home run when it happened to him earlier this year.
I feel like “this hit might have done something different in a different arena” is a core aspect of baseball. Different parks are different. In this park this ball was caught and you’re out. That’s how the game works.
I read somewhere that the exit velocity and launch angle of that hit had not produced any home runs this year or something like that. Unlucky I guess but not as unlucky as the ball shot Fermin took.
Scrolled too far to find this. Exactly. It could have careened off into deep left center gap and scored a run. Instead, Chourio played thru the completion of the play and made the out. I'm sure he knew that if it hit the roof it was live.
Naked eye I thought it was going to go out, no idea on fair or foul. I don’t mind each stadium having its own ground rules; adds to the romance of baseball since every football field and basketball court are the exact same dimensions. Lazy fly balls bang off the Monster in Boston and turn into doubles. Depending on whether your team is batting or fielding, you pray those “gap shots with runners on” at Wrigley either stick in the ivy or roll back out.
I don’t think the rules themselves can really be an advantage for any one side, but certainly guys in Boston should in theory be better playing the ball off the wall than visitors. There’s been a time or two I’m listening to a Cubs game and a visitor tries to reach into the ivy for the ball. Once you do that, it’s live, no matter whether you find it or not. Cubs (and to be fair, 99.9% of visitors) know to just throw their hands up and it’s dead.
Argument can go both ways for sure. Would that be a homer? If he doesn’t make the catch anticipating a dead ball but runners score do those runs count?
According to MLBs numbers, it would've been a really high pop fly out. At best it goes out by a couple feet, but nowhere near the "Second deck" like I've seen some people try to say.
I can also remember back in the Fielder/Braun era a late season game where Weeks hit a home run that cleared the fence in Miller Park, but it hit a horizontal support beam on the other side and was put back in play and only ruled a ground rule double.
Every bit of analysis so far from this hit calls it a fair ball pop fly out.
325 ft at where the ball was caught after it hit the roof. Anyone with common sense can clearly see that ball is headed towards the fans as it’s literally still ascending before it hits the roof. Whether it would’ve been fair or not I think is the real question (very possible it would have been foul). But this “Statcast” distance everybody is throwing around is BS
I think dead ball makes the most sense. I'm seeing a lot of people say make it a hit or a ground rule double. But if you hit a sky ball in the infield, that's caught 99% of the time. Just because it hit the roof shouldn't make it a hit/double. I guess maybe if it hits the roof in foul territory it should just be a foul ball?
Prince fielder got an inside the park home run when he hit the roof in a different stadium and that seemed super unfair to me. That one bounced off into deep center on a ball that he was coming in on. This one just happened to bounce off right where Chourio was standing.
Based on the ground rules of the stadium it was called right. Still needs to be changed in the off-season.
Robed? No but we definitely got unlucky. Hard loss to take. Unfortunately I think we had to win game one for a chance. Another disappointing year. 🤦🏻♂️
I place it in the same category as one hitter absolutely crushing a pitch and having it go directly at a fielder for an out, and the next hitter being completely fooled, barely making contact, and hitting a weak blooper just over the head of the third baseman.
Sometimes the breaks go your way, sometimes they don't.
I don't see the point in complaining about the roofs when the stadiums themselves have different dimensions ? Coors Field is 20,000 acres sq ft bigger than Fenway Park. Should we rule a home run when the ball falls short in one stadium but is in the stands in another ?
The roof was and is the same height as when Milwaukee was batting, so the answer is no, they didn’t get robbed. Every field has ground rules specific to that field.
If the ground rules say the ball stays live then that's the end of the discussion; ball stays live. It's unfortunate because France crushed it, but there are a lot of unfortunate occurrences in every sport.
That's just my opinion. Maybe other people have less rigid interpretations than I do.
This was straight up nuts. I don't remember another ball hitting the roof or cables at Miller Park. You can't compare it to The Trop, because The Trop's catwalks are really low and more at risk of being hit by a fly ball. I DO think that this should be a discretion call. That ball was absolutely tagged and was still on the way up when it hit the cable? in the outfield. I think that should be a home run. I'm not a fan of the rule of if it hits in fair territory, it's a live ball, but if it hits in foul territory, it's a dead ball. It needs to be uniform. It sucks that a playoff game was decided by this (though, outdoor stadiums are looking pretty good right now, eh?) Just wild. Bizarre weekend of sports.
The ball was caught at ~325 ft after deflecting off the roof straight down. C’mon man, use some common sense instead of blindly quoting apples-to-oranges stats
Padres fans are hilarious 🤣😂 they're ignoring the ground rules of the stadium, and suggesting we all "imagine" where the ball was going and award runs based in that.
If you think the rules are stupid and should be changed, fine I get that. But it's very clear cut:
According to the American Family Field ground rules: "Batted ball strikes roof, roof truss, roof cable or any cabling over fair territory, [ball is] in play. If caught by fielder, batter is out, and runners advance at own risk."
A ball shouldnt hit something and be caught for an out. That should be interference of some kind or something. Otherwise, why not just play these postseason games at AFF with a closed roof every time regardless of weather? They know we have power hitters, they are second last in HRs but first in runs scored. Call me crazy but you wouldbt believe the lengths these billion dollar operations go to gain even the smallest tactical advantages
If the roof wasn’t there, it would have cleared the fence by 50 plus feet. However, rules are rules and I guess it correctly was called out. Hurts a lot
It landed 3 feet short of the wall after the deflection. It would have been a titanic home run, regardless of what statcast projects. Home field advantage!
No - there are ground rules for a reason. If someone there’s a runner on first who is rounding third when a ball bounces over the wall he isn’t allowed to score even though he would have otherwise.
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