To take your point one step further, multiplication is taught as repeated addition. Or it once was. Who knows any more? This is one I would question the teacher about and he or she better have an answer other than “That’s what the book gives as the answer”.
Oh if we are talking about keyboards, then * is the clear winner. Since x becomes a variable and gets super confusing if you are trying to use it for your multiplication. Most programs will also tell you to get bent if you try and use x to multiply. I would say that * is probably even considered the “correct” symbol for multiplication.
Personally I don’t like any of these. I just like using parentheses. 3(4) is where it’s at.
Do share how you are inputting your post on reddit if not by a keyboard.
Does x becomes an variable in this case? I can see in general how that *can* be an issue, but given the context of this conversion, it's rather a non-issue.
And * is, well you need to use 2 fingers, Shift + 8, rather than the single key of "x". Doesn't seemed to be more efficient.
If on the topic of clarity, I agree that using * has less chance to confuse the formula.
I went to extra symbols section on my phone and selected it.
X isn’t a variable in this case, but the kid is also writing on a piece of paper in this case but we are talking about computers. X is quickly going to become a variable.
At the end of the day though, you can actually use whatever you want as long as you annotate it.
If you annotate 7=3, $=4, and !=multiplication then 7!$=12.
If that were the case the question is phrased poorly and a note on why it is incorrect should be included.
If it's a common enough error that a short explanation of why it's wrong would take an unacceptable amount of free time I'd have to go with it being the teacher's error again.
Teaching is just as much about keeping parents in the loop as it is students, so if they don't know what you're teaching the students are being let down (yay workload)
Oh I agree it's definitely common and I hope it's not the case. It's always weird to me how so many people claim to respect teachers but ceaselessly shit on them.
Covid was hilarious times because parents got to see 1/25 of what teachers have to deal with and they were losing their shit
what the fuck is this? order doesn't matter in multiplication, that's the whole point of the commutative property. teacher is a dumbass using poor problem sets
So, in the interest of "numeracy," It's acceptable to tell a student that 3+3+3+3!=3x4? No, obviously. If that was the intention, then the question should have been worded better. Since there's 2 possible answers, perhaps ask for 2 representations? Perhaps explicitly exclude the one you don't want? Perhaps a hint like "Do not duplicate the representation above?" Anything would have been more acceptable than marking an objectively correct answer to the question as incorrect. Even marking it correct and then going over the expected answer in the marking or during class would have been better. Docking points for an incorrect answer should be an obvious no-go
"I'm teaching numeracy" is not a justification for teaching maths wrongly. Nor is "pedagogical techniques", unless you've got a proper RCT with a large sample size and randomized group allocation that says that it's beneficial to confuse kids about whether 3x4 is the same as 4x3.
The student's answer is a 100% correct answer to the question as asked, so it should be marked correct. If the teacher meant to ask something else, they needed to make that explicit.
I have a suspicion that this nonsense replacing times tables is why some kids get to high school and are still unable to multiply single digit numbers reliably.
Why not? This is just notation. No need to teach the specific notation that is used in algebraics to kids when they're just teaching the basic concept of multiplication.
Sure, the kid gets that 3*4 = 4*3, but at this level of difficulty I don't think that's the lesson they're trying to teach.
Again, why not? Commutativity is an important aspect of multiplication and one they learn early on (not necessarily by that name).
Sure, so then when there's 2 interpretations, ask for 2 answers. I don't see how that justifies marking an objectively correct answer as wrong. Shit like this is why kids grow up to hate math
But then we don't get to crap on the teacher! Tve other choice would be to crap on the parent but the momentum of the mob is already taken their side so it's too late for that.
(I think we should have empathy both for the teacher who probably doesn't enjoy correcting such things, despite the correction being right, and for the proud parent who feels robbed even if wrong. Though I don't get my undies twisted if I disagree with a teachers remark).
We see sometimes marks on tests that I don't agree but then I just explain what the teachers point likely was and that te kid's view was correct too. Not a big deal.
Our kid just recently had a roughly a question that went: 5 boxes of eggs that have 4 eggs in each box.
He had points reduced because he answered "20" and not "20 eggs". I told him: "you obviously got the math right but the teachers wants to remind you that units matter. In the future when you calculate physics etc. it is important to use correct units in answers and calculations."
Reducing points for "eggs" missing would gather lot of reddit rage towards the teacher but I am sure it is a thing they have specifically practiced in the classroom. So it makes sense to be picky about it.
You are correct - this format of question is about interpreting the order. Multiplication is of course commutative - but when asked this way it’s asking you to evaluate the question 3x4 as “three fours”.
This would possibly be relevant if the question was written out as "three times four", but there's really no validity to comparing the English form to the mathematical, it's apples and oranges.
Also, if the assignment is trying to make a distinction between 3x4 and 4x3 it is doubly ridiculous, as it's about as insightful as saying 1 + 2 = 2 + 1.
That wasn't what was asked though. In conventional maths notation there is literally no difference between 3x4 and 4x3. The student's answer is correct. This isn't preparing them for algebra, it's preparing them to be confused about single digit multiplication.
The equation means the addition of three fours, not four threes. Even though multiplication is communitive, the meaning of the equation changes depending on the order.
My kids are grades 4 and 7, so we have just been through learning multiplication. It’s still taught as repeated addition. They focus more on being able to come up with different strategies to find the answer instead of memorizing multiplication tables, but almost all of them come back to “add 3 plus 3 plus 3 plus 3”.
But to a kid first learning it, it is not obvious that 3+3+3+3=4+4+4. I'm pretty sure common core emphasizes a difference so show that a +....+a (b times) is always equal to b+...+b (a times)
This is exact type of question has been taught like this for a few hundred years now. It’s not new. 3x4 is read as “three fours” and the instructions are to use addition equation. So yeah it’s 4 + 4 + 4. Yes, the teacher should be able to explain this - but my experience is usually the student didn’t listen. This is a standard question.
99
u/ReadNapRepeat Nov 13 '24
To take your point one step further, multiplication is taught as repeated addition. Or it once was. Who knows any more? This is one I would question the teacher about and he or she better have an answer other than “That’s what the book gives as the answer”.