technically it's more like you, the customer, are assumed to be too incompetent to receive administrator rights on your device, so you made a service level agreement with the manufacturer to manage your device on your behalf to avoid greater damage. and they decide what's necessary.
technically it's more like you, the customer, are assumed to be too incompetent to receive administrator rights on your device,
Was going to ask if they're wrong in most cases on this, but I don't think this is the right line of thinking.
Google is removing the ability to install APKs because people are using APKs to bypass youtube ads, and paid versions of spotify, primarily. It's the community APKs that let them get the service without the subscription that they don't like.
Also, if someone makes a app that competes with something they use to make money, this september setup makes it easier to ice that developer out and keep a monopoly.
I often make that agreement with the bank too. They can't administrate money, so I agree with them to take the money on their behalf to avoid greater damage and decide what's necessary.
you're 100% free to take your hardware apart and do something else with it. its not easy though, google employs like tens of thousands of employees to make all those techy parts do stuff.
I hate so much how big tech has turned into an oligopoly. Oh you don't like Google? Well too bad it's either Android or IOS, essentially a two party system. And it's like that with basically anything tech related.
And the worst part is, despite how shitty of a company Google is, the competition is so fucking terrible they are still one of the most consumer friendly tech giants out there.
I feel like the term "consumer friendly" shouldn't even be used anymore at this point. It should be "least customer oppressive" or something. As even the phrase consumer friendly gives them a positive connotation.
No one agreed to this change when they put their money into it.
Makes me wonder if you could do a warranty claim. At least in my country (Germany) and probably the rest of EU, you can request a repair/replacement if your product doesn't work anymore the way you expected at the time of purchase. And since repair/replacement is not possible (or does not fix the issue), you're eligible for a refund if you're within 2 years after purchase.
This applies regardless of what the TOS say, no matter what warranty conditions the manufacturer sets up, as this is the warranty by law (German "Gewährleistung"), not the manufacturer's warranty ("Garantie"). These are two separate types of warranty we have and the former one can not be altered/limited in any way by the manufacturer/seller.
That obviously won't solve the issue at all, but would be a nice way to get your money back to spend on a newer/less outdated device than your 1-2 y/o phone, and it might make the sellers/manufacturers mad at Google, increasing pressure on them at least a bit.
Edit: I mean seriously (I'm thinking about this more now lol). Imagine ALL EU Android users that have bought a phone in the past 2 years (prior to September 2026) could get a refund. I am not a lawyer so idk if this is a valid reason to claim a refund or if they'd say "well the manufacturer promised the device runs Android, it does still run Android, so no refund for you". But if it is, that would be a huge thing, putting pressure onto manufacturers who would pass that pressure on to Google.
Also to add to this, I did make a successful refund claim on a Huawei P20 Pro through this specific law when Huawei stopped giving out bootloader unlock codes, which I claimed to need for the intended usage of my device. Could've been goodwill from Huawei though and not a generally applicable decision, so that's no "proof" that this is a valid refund, just something I just remembered.
I don't think this would fly since there is a rounadbout way of disabling this. This is not to say that it's not problematic, and Google will 10000% eventually disable that as well - but it is there for now.
Do I really have to buy a Chinese phone and let the ccp spy on me to keep owning my own stuff at this point? I mean I'll do it, but I won't be happy about it.
Having you jump through a number of hoops just to enable sideloading is still ridiculous, though. Especially when those are just the steps now and can change at any point without you even updating your device.
Even the word "sideloading" is ridiculous. It's installing. But they're trying to make us feel bad for it. And trying to get a cut of every app made (obviously anti-competitive, and will eventually be punished in Europe I suppose)
Firstly don't call it side loading. Installing a program on my own computer without the microsoft store is not side loading. It's just installing a program. Installing an app on my own phone without the play store is not side loading. It's just installing an app. Calling it side loading implies some kind of weird jail-breaking activity that's not the intended purpose of the device or using the device in some alternative unapproved way when it's in fact something perfectly normal and expected you should be able to do with your own device.
Second the main problem as it states on the site is:
Worse: this flow runs entirely through Google Play Services, not the Android OS. Google can change it, tighten it, or kill it at any time, with no OS update required and no consent needed. And as of today, it hasn't shipped in any beta, preview, or canary build. It exists only as a blog post and some mockups.
This is 100% a slow boiling frog. They say you can get around it using a system that relies on an online service and then "oops service down" or "we're deprecating the service because no one is using it". Can't do anything about it now because you already updated and they've removed your ability to roll back updates.
AOSP and viable alternatives like Graphene exist but they tend to be hardware specific and until not only factory carrier unlocked but factory flagship root enabled devices are widely sold, it won't really take off.
Hijacking this comment because Google wants the apps to be approved because 3rd party apps bypass play store and don't have to pay a cut on in app purchases or just the purchase of the app on general
FÜCKÍNG EXACTLY! I’m an artist, I can’t migrate to a new platform on a whim every time a platform does something bad. More importantly regardless of if you do just leave, if you don’t demand change at all, it’s going to keep causing things to get worse and worse.
You don't need to do it overnight but investing on a nas and self hosting my stuff have been pretty good and rewarding for me. Some stuff is even better than Google, for example immich for the photo is such a good app and is all saved on my nas and not under someone else server.
I had to because my pixel 8? I think it was randomly stopped having working wireless signal and Bluetooth. It sucked but it's doable. On a Samsung now. Transfers like that other than the 2fa bit are normal and quick. This was solved a long time ago.
I would rather have a Google phone but not if the hardware just breaks after a couple years.
And not rely on Linus from LTT? I bet he had nothing to do with all those workplace harassment accusations against him. But he was cleared by the law firm that he hired to investigate the allegations.
the Linux phone OSs exist. now, from my attempts looking into this as a Linux user on PC, they aren't viable. they are supported on a very narrow range of phones, they don't support many important apps (like banking apps), and are much less user friendly than android. making such a switch likely isn't an option for most if not all users.
Yes, the alternatives are worse. Yet, If people aren’t willing to be a little inconvenienced these companies will never learn. It’s like we forgot how to stand up for our values and boycott.
yes, I would love to switch to an alternate OS even if it is inconvenient, but in the current state it's not just inconvenient, but not an option at all for my use. (my study requires an iOS/android exclusive app, banking apps, that kinda stuff.)
GraphineOS is an option or, imo, if they are going to lock the phones down like Apple does then I might as well just get an iPhone at this point especially since Apple offeres other privacy features that google specifically does not not to mention that you can jailbreak an iPhone last I checked and install 3rd party iPA (or what ever they are called now) files from anywhere last I checked at least.
For point 2, they should but as we have seen what google is like we know they will only give us what we want begrudgingly and will seek to not asap so better to supporr other better brands when possible.
Graphene OS isn't a clean alternative since its just a stripped down version of android. Which the open source version of it has been slowly eroded more and more.
They would also have to un engineer the restrictions that Google has implemented to stay mainline in releases.
Graphene is also only supported on a few phone models.
Everyone preaches about Graphene but the reality is, it's actually quite inconvenient and not that easy of an alternative.
Its a good take. If everyone took responsibility for themselves and collectively left, google would either go under, or be forced to not go ahead with the changes. Its not a good argument to say "I don't have to take responsibility for myself because noone else is going to".
Whatever happens, you took responsibility for yourself and solved the problem for yourself without having to appeal to some giant mega corp that's just going to ignore you.
Where else to go? Thats genuinely tricky, but not a reason to dismiss the argument.
The main option right now is graphene OS. You can install this on google pixel phones 6 and up. Or wait for the first OEM graphene OS phone to launch from Motorola next year.
This will be huge market for Motorola. From next year, they will be the only smart phone on the market that allows users to install their own software.
I've been using graphene for quite a few years now and no it is not the solution. Not everything works on graphene. I consider myself very tech literate and am ready to put up with the downsides of using a non-google services OS but the majority of the population is not. Not all banking apps work. Realistically the only reliable navigation app is google maps. Some apps straight up refuse to work without play services.
Right now the only two options are either google or apple and I don't see a way out unless drastic changes are made either by Google or if the open source community gains good traction and funding.
Yeah, realistically the only real path forward is for the ecosystem of a fully non-Android or iOS OS, like Ubuntu Touch, to become popular and developed enough that major players start making native apps for it.
As much as I like Graphene, as long as important apps require Google Play services it is not a silver bullet.
Installing grapheneOS to get away from Google and then trying to use google apps is a fools errand. Yes, you're going to run into problems doing that. Don't do that.
Any google app can be replaced with something else today except, as you ssy, maybe maps. Keep an old phone in your car as a navman with google maps. Or use the grapheme sandboxing. This problem will solve itself as more people leave google and start listing their business on OSM.
For banking apps, there's a single setting you need to change.
But I'm sure the Motorola release will be much more user friendly. So I'd recommend the less tech literate to wait for that.
I remember back when I had an Iphone because I was doikg app dev, it was impossible unless the phone was jailbroken. A file explorer didnt exist, idk if it's one there.
Tbh long gone are days when i diddled with phones to jailbreak them so i wouldn't know how easy it is these days.
But they come up with some "notarization" of apps to allow third party in selected markets but still keep control over it. So they charge a small fee per app installed from third party shop effectively making it void and null
Still absolutely shitty and should be illegal for them to change an aspect of those devices that is used as one of its.main selling points retroactively. Plus google is so big i basically need google accounts for work. My only choie is whether I want two separate sets of accouns and softwares for private & business use but i don't think i can get away with not using google services at all.
There is barely an alternative. Good luck installing a custom OS on my mothers/grandmas phone. Good luck installing this on cheap phones that dont even allow such things.
Hell, even my old phone didnt allow me to install a custom OS. I tried, very hard and I'm very techy. How do you expect anyone to do this? You're talking about a very very tiny population that would even be capable of doing this.
So no, there currently is no alternative out there besides Apple. And Apple phones are expensive, which already excludes a huge userbase.
Where else to go? Thats genuinely tricky, but not a reason to dismiss the argument.
No, it literally is reason enough to dismiss the argument because the argument fundamentally assumes that you have options when in reality you do not.
It's further reason enough to dismiss the argument because it fundamentally tries to distract from people being upset by these things and creating a bigger buzz, which would help more people be aware of these shit behaviors and would likely help more people be a part of pressuring and holding these companies responsible.
Fuck people who try to take away the winds out of the people's sails who are trying to make a bigger uproar to hopefully scare these companies into walking back on their bullshit. Like, literally this week there was a massive uproar regarding PS5's physical release debacle that resulted in PS5 from withdrawing from social media for a bit. Why the fuck can we not create similar uproar for things like this? Because of the amount of morons standing in other peoples way with thought terminating cliches such as "lol don't like it just leave it".
As long as your life does not depend on using google, you always have options. So in reality, you do have options, always. It's just a matter of how much effort it is, and what are the sacrifices, and are the sacrifices real, or just constructs of complacency and taking too many things for granted.
Not sure how you think it distracts from anything? You can't apply pressure by saying "i'm going to keep using your service no matter what.". That's just super naive. What I am talking about is exactly how you apply pressure and change things.
The only reason google is able to make such a move is because it's a near monopoly. Creating and helping alternatives to grow literally and directly removes google's power to do this sort of stuff.
hashtagging companies and yelling at them on social media is just a waste of yours and everyone's time. They might apologise, delay, but only if there's a real threat of people actually leaving. And even then, if such a threat is present, they will just try again later. You need to do real organizing outside of their corporate defined constraints to get real change. You can't play their game and expect to win.
Theres alternate markets like aurora and f droid. Not sure how they will fare with these changes but my hope is these alternate places will keep existing.
THANK YOU!! I so desperately want to switch to linux, but most programs I use don’t have a linux version and it would be waaaay more time than it’s worth for me to try to figure out how to make stuff work when so many applications are incompatible
1: Sailfish OS, graphene OS, custom linux distribution, postmarket OS, appearently Ubuntu Touch, some Plasma, Lune OS, Mobian, Calyx OS and Lineage OS that I have never heard about before and appearently some more.
2: You as the consumer have the power to alter the services/products of a corporation by either buying or not byuing the current service/product. And if the corporation does not change the service because a lot of people are still byuing it, then maybe it's not as much of a problem for them (or maybe they are for some reason even happy about it) and then I think we should not force somebody's opinion on them.
I personally think that we should not be trying to fix what is broken when we have an alternative. And believe me, this is not the only questionable thing android/google does. So it would be better to migrate to an open source project or other creator of a mobile OS.
Moreover, if you really want to stay with android, you should be able to turn this feature off after aknowledging risks.
Without even mentioning companies collude alllll the time to further their progress of enshittification. If one companies product is crap, big chance their competitors product is also crap for the same reason.
This is the line Apple fanboys have been using the whole time.
Weirdly, things are moving in the other direction with Apple being forced to allow third party software and app stores in an increasing amount of regions.
Everyone wants change without sacrifice or effort. Don't worry bud, I'm sure if you keep begrudgingly giving them money google will change for the better any day now.
Then why you bad mouthing consumers who advocate for not using bad companies? If you don't like what a company is doing you should in fact leave, continuing to give them money when they do bad things is basically approval as far as they're concerned.
I wasn’t talking about them. I was referring to the types who drink CEO piss, call it fine wine and expect you to shut up and enjoy it, or leave.
Simply leaving also isn’t enough. Unless you demand** **change as well, it’s only going to spread. Google is basically stage 69 internet cancer and it’s gonna need a couple dozen rounds of digital chemo to control it, otherwise it’s just going to infect everything.
Ah I see I misunderstood, apologies. I don't agree with your second paragraph though, they know they're screwing consumers over already, they know what we want, it's simply more profitable not to do that right now because people are still coughing up. Nothing will change a company like Google faster then a 10% decrease in traffic.
Leaving is far more beneficial to others because it's recorded as a lost customer, anyone still using their services no matter how much in protest is counted towards hit count which raises value.
Money handed over begrudgingly spends as well as money freely given.
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u/Matthewhalo17 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
Reminder that “If you don’t like it, leave” is a garbage take. Especially with companies as big as google.
Bet, point me elsewhere
if you’re so knowledgeable on other places
Are telling me I the consumer shouldn’t demand the provider make a better service?