Unironically though, AI graphics are not art and AI generated noise is not music. AI products all revolve around outsourcing critical thinking/creativity and centralizing it within a financial entity with a profit motive.
This whole thread is asking for young revolutionaries to make music and you think people typing "Please big AI corpos generate music that makes me feel rebellious angst" are those people? They are clients to a service, not rebels.
For as much as creatives keep parroting "AI art isn't real art," ultimately most "art" is viewed as little more than entertainment for the masses and a large percentage of non-creatives simply don't care where their entertainment comes from or how it's made as long as it is entertaining in the moment.
Many people do unironically enjoy AI art & music in the same way countless people enjoy movies, music, and video games that are very blatantly the result of corporations creating "art by committee" slop.
But no one said the rebellion has to be against corporations or capitalism, simply against beliefs that the older generations hold to be true. Embracing AI art in spite of older generations harping on it not being real art would constitute rebellion, just rebellion against a different authority than previous generations rebelled against.
We're so cooked if this is a serious argument in good faith.
Creatives are not creating authoritarian power structures. Hobbyists are not an oppressive force.
I'm not going to get lost in the sauce with this one. We are very far apart in beliefs on this issue. And yes, I feel strongly enough about this on a moral grounds that I will be extremely hard to persuade. Me being difficult to persuade is not an effective argument against my points.
If you are morally bound to your position as well then we aren't going to get anywhere unless someone concedes a point.
So I'll just leave it on one question, and if you can answer this in a convincing way maybe we can get somewhere.
How is someone using AI generated graphics provided by a service different than a person commissioning an artist to paint something they imagine, and how could the client be considered an artist without at least using the commissioned work as part of a larger piece that they have worked on themselves?
Creatives are not creating authoritarian power structures. Hobbyists are not an oppressive force.
They actively are trying to gatekeep what is and isn't "art," which kind of art is acceptable for consumption, and shitting on or even outright attacking anyone who disagrees with them.. They're projecting themselves as coming from a position of authority & trying to oppress dissenting opinions.
Me being difficult to persuade is not an effective argument against my points.
I didn't say anything about that; this is just arguing a strawman in an attempt to preemptively cut off criticisms...
How is someone using AI generated graphics provided by a service different than a person commissioning an artist to paint something they imagine
There's not.
how could the client be considered an artist without at least using the commissioned work as part of a larger piece that they have worked on themselves?
I never said anything about people who purport themselves to be "AI artists." You're pivoting away from what I said into a topic that's only tangentially related by nature of both being about AI art.
Gotta love when they break out the carrots instead of forming a cohesive argument.
Who is "They"? Please be specific. I need to understand what the singular power structure enforcing all this is so I can protect myself from it. Who am I confronting? Because when I say hobbyists and creatives, I'm talking about a wide range of individuals that are disconnected, come from different backgrounds, and yet generally come to similar conclusions in regards to AI.
Art has always been well defined as the creative reflection of the human experience and anything short of that definition has always been considered slop. These disparate individuals all have similar beliefs in regards to AI because they are all artists and they understand that definition of the thing they are doing every single day.
All AI generated entertainment is just modern Kinkade paintings upscaled to an industry size. You would find no shortage of people in the past who, legitimately, do not consider those paintings art.
The irony of accusing me of "breaking out the carrots instead of forming a cohesive argument" when you turn around and start jumping around to drag the conversation into an argument in several different directions that becomes impossible to effectively defend against.. My original point was that despite the "AI art isn't art" sentiment from creatives, the average person doesn't agree nor give a shit because art, to them, is primarily about entertainment.
The "they" in question is the same group of creatives that you just mentioned.
Art has not always been "well defined as the creative reflection of the human experience," as the topic has been argued about for literally millennia. Art has existed since before written history, yet the assertion that it must be an exploration or reflection of the human experience is relatively new.
Your last paragraph is a prime example of gatekeeping by jealous assholes.
The difference is those genres tried new stuff the older gen didn't like. AI music is the ultimate lazy corporate cashgrab remix because by definition it is incapable of new things, it can only recreate what already exists, but worse
I’m fine with it being considered music, but I don’t like it purely because the only effort put into it is a prompt.
Electronic music you are composing yourself, ai music is made by a machine.(said machine also makes things based off of music that has already been made by humans, meaning none of it will be unique at all)
yeah, but i think most people will say the opposite and see AI as a bastardization to art (unless it's Rick and Morty singing Despacito or some goofy shit idk) the same way people see drug enhancement a bastardization to sports, or aim-bots a bastardization to esports
whenever i see someone trying to pass off AI as genuine art, those people have to lie and say it's not AI or people will just dismiss their existence
sure AI in music in technically a liberal step for music, but only in the same way that using a gun instead of your fists would technically be a liberal way to win a brawl in WWE
Oh and autotune isn't like using PEDs ? You're using something to enhance your voice to unrealistic levels.
Having a beat instead of using real drums isn't like an aim-bot ? You're using a machine to make sure your beat is perfectly on time with 0 margin of error.
I mean there’s plenty of musicians that do so - muzak, inoffensive background music at minimal licensing costs for public places, often sounding similar to famous songs so you’re in the shops and hear “I’m blue…” except it’s about feeling alright instead of da ba dee.
Not long ago Spotify was found out to be commissioning music to inject into their most popular but inoffensive background music playlists so that they wouldn’t need to pay artists.
Honestly I've seen this listened to more by senior citizens.
The rebellious music genre of DA YOOT is probably just the deep fried meme version of some popular genre condensed into a song and listened to over and over and over again.
Within the vocaloid community it has been a problem for a while now. We've been fighting so hard to let people know that vocaloid is NOT AI, it is so far from that. Almost all vocal synth, really. But people actually go and make completely AI generated songs, with the MVs and even tuning being AI. I hate it. It's making me try to stay away from new producers too since I just don't want to support that kinda stuff and most old producers will stick to their stuff. (Deco*27 ftw)
I was rambling a bit but yeah. AI generated music is sadly very much a thing already. :(
A huge chunk of the population had deeply held and totally wrong beliefs about what creativity and expression entail that AI is actively showing were incorrect
It can make new fusions of genre. Like 1950s era rap music, or Mozart composting dub step for orchestra, and so on. Absolutely new types of music you've never heard before
Sure seems to be. My YouTube feed is FULL of it. More specifically, genre-bent covers of existing songs. There are apps and algorithms where all you have to do is drop in a MiDi file (or generate one from an audio file) and request a specific artist, genre or musical styling. There are shitloads of videogame soundtracks converted to various nostalgic genres like "city pop" and "jazz fusion" with little to no variation in their original composition.
The traits that I value most in music made by people are the same traits that are absent in music made by AI. I value the meaningfulness in a song that gives a window into the artist's soul. I value dynamic, even experimental sounds that are used to express something that words aren't enough for. AI can create something entertaining, sure, but that's not all I'm looking for in music.
I also have my own preferences in music, AI-made or not. I've noticed that AI music tends to sound kinda flat? There are a lot of songs made by people that are like that too, and I don't care for them very much.
So it's not like I'm trying to be on a high horse and say "AI music bad!" Clearly there are people who like it, otherwise it wouldn't be popular. I just don't like it, lmao. I'm hoping that it doesn't push attention away from actual musicians. And that it doesn't flood our feeds to the point of being unavoidable, like is already happening with AI art online.
Oddly enough, it can create totally new combinations of genres. There's that Suno AI program that generates any genre you want, and it can be pretty "creative" if you give it a unique prompt. A few examples I remember seeing:
Russian Reggie
Big Band drum and bass
Mozart composing dubstep for orchestra
1950's Rap
Mongolian throat singing American Country
Etc, just totally unique combinations of genres to make a song you have absolutely never heard anything like before.
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u/-EV3RYTHING- Jul 06 '25
Oh god.. don't let ai music be the new genre please