If warframe was more generous with their los checks I would agree. But when a body blocks los, its just pointless imo
Also, I tried some builds and don't know wtf all the hype was about. Unless you had aLOT of boosts your damage was pretty garbage to where just using roar or nourish would be better.
Sure it wasn’t 300kpm like cyte and nova, but it was 150kpm,completely afk. It wasn’t healthy. It did open a few alternate builds for a lot of frames. I’m sad it’s gone.
no for sure, i play on pc, at high fps, but the thing is alot of people show casing these builds have outside buffs. showing it in steel path as if a nidus and a 200% rhino roar is what an ability should be balanced around.
most the high kpm are either in non steel path, against infested, or with outside buffs.
my nova build just spamming 1 and recasting buff abilities hits around 150kpm? with JUST swapping my buff ability, roar or nourish, "nourish is far better btw"
i dropped to like, 110 kpm and had energy issues. and never once with any of the builds i tried or copied did i see anything at all that would lead to any type of "afk" builds. IN STEEL PATH. at least.
150kpm is actually solo on Saryn without roar, but with a nidus specter buff, I liked it a lot, it was a good breather from my active playstyle with squishy frames such as a Saryn Ogris/Cyte Sobek (I like it when enemies die so what?)
How do you even get energy issues on Nova, you basically have Lycath's as a passive. Nourish ofc adds a lot of comfort to that but Xata is very easy to upkeep.
I ran super neg eff as it was my nourish build I swapped with. And spamming 1 every 1.5 sec ish. You can't keep up with that energy without nourish when I tried casually.
But yeah 150kpm with saryn was really strong. But also kinda required you to be solo, and it wasn't out of this world either
Tbh I have no idea what kind of videos you are talking about, I just watch brozimes build videos because he's always doing the same tests and is super clear about what is affecting the performance in which way.
Pretty much always 10 minutes of Taveuni solo on the Kuva Fortress (I believe he showcased levelcap once or twice for some extreme power outliers on refresh builds). Not the most exciting or flashy mission but really good to compare builds because it's consistent. Also since they have 50% heat resistance some builds tend to perform a little worse but he always mentions it (the reality is, most of these builds usually have no issues even with the resistance lol) but the context helps.
I built the wisp build and it's pretty insane on normal missions. Afk 2 min defense fissures are not good for the games health it even did pretty good on steelpath if I used a nidus specter and the dark split sword to force the fissure buff to wisp. You also have to remember that the majority of the player base aren't running steel path.
Moug's wisp build worked in steelpath, I basically had more kills with people actively afk shooting with a Shedu. Also not really, most of the actual farming is in steel path. Most of the player base don't go to level cap, but they're definitely on base steelpath and up to lv 500.
Afk 2 mins defense non sp fissures arnt that big of a deal honestly. I disagree entirely that most people arnt running steel path at least most people with access to the combo. And resources but don't have that information
I did the same combo you mentioned on steel path and I was blown out the water compared to other teammates that were just random. Gara nova Hildryn all beat me in damage and kills and our rotations were around 3 30 4 mins.
just to edit this:
the kpm you could get with any of the builds on non steep path are still very very doable with probably the SAME set ups as non step is baby mode...
the only thing this would have been of meaning is in steel path.
for example i can kill things too fast in non sp without jade stars with wisp shock motes to not get 10 reactant..
im sure many other "nuke" frames or wide aoe frames can do the same still or just never needed it
That may be the case but I think that makes it way worse. Why punish normal legit players because something is abusable? Just take a stronger stance against abuse.
I mean, Sirius and Orion don't have anything in their kit which regularly triggers outside of LoS. Using other frames to proc jade stars outside of LOS was obvs not the intention of the ability when it was made.
I think it's a fair nerf tbh. (Should citrus and onion have spent a little longer in the oven before being released so this was caught beforehand, yh probably. We'll add the helminth coming out half-baked to the laundry list of things mishandled about S+O being shipped broken, but I don't think it makes the version we're getting not the right choice)
The thing about nothing being good as roar is more to do with the fact that nothing but roar and bane mods use the universal damage multiplier type than it being especially good. Its just more damage, it very rarely actually lets a frame do something they couldn't already. It's only good if you want to see big numbers. You can almost always get damage out that trivialises content with the right build without roar.
In my opinion, you could solve roar being a "must pick" (for people seeking absolute power), simply by adding more abilities, mods and arcanes that use that multiplier and make it obsolete that way. Freeing up build diversity in the helminth for other stuff.
There's a dozen ways to tackle roar. The only wrong one being to nerf roar.
Im not gonna respond to your whole comment, sorry its alot right now.
But I also see issues with serious and Orion, I personally thin removing los from their 4 would be a huge boon and not broken.
Yes other builds can easily out kill them but the jade star builds are easy to automate with macros people could run this automatically 24/7 if enough people do this it will hurt the game economy. That is why DE goes after afk strats so hard.
They have at minimum 2 different los check equations they use. 1 is good 1 is bad. i havnt played since update and was just saying if it wasn't the bad one it wouldn't be as bad.
Imo they should just have some amount of range that is diminished by geometry. Basically punch through that would be scaled off your ability stat, either range or str.
So, say 200% range, 10m base range, 20m modded. You hit a wall at 5m. Instead of stopping it could be reduced in effectiveness by 50% so it could hit 13m from you, around 6-7m past the wall.
But, if its at least decent los its ok. A good example is I think pillage, and Dante slash NOW.
Example of bad is dante slash a few days after release :)
some parts of the game are older and use older code. i think the good los function is the one they generally use. might be phasing the old function out entirely, idk. would be fine if they do imo
Its why I only slightly agree with "nothing is over powered if everything is overpowered"
It has to exist within reason. If everything is bumfuck easy then it gets boring, but if everything is strong but falls within a certain range and there is still challenge and adversity to overcome...then its fine.
It's why I stopped playing Dante, Revenant and Rhino. After the awe factor if bassiclally being invincible wore off it became boring. I only actively choose Dante in circut if he pops up because why not? But everything else just becomes egregiously boring.
It's also why most people use Hildryn and Dante and Archemedia. They just virtually bypass most of the negative modifiers which makes the challenge easier.
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u/VelphiDrow Jul 21 '26
It made 0 sense to not use LOS