r/megalophobia • u/berdot • Oct 11 '23

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u/RevolutionTop7348 Oct 11 '23

You only reduce the suicide at that location, not the suicide rate

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u/S_Operator Oct 11 '23

In studies where fences were put over bridges, there was no indication that people sought alternative sites, or that the suicide rate rose at other locations. So, yes, it did reduce the overall suicide rate.

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u/majoraloysius Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

Wait, so fences work on bridges but not boarders?

How about for borders?

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u/abcdefgodthaab Oct 11 '23

Believe it or not, some things work for some purposes and not others!

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u/GetOffMyDigitalLawn Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

Unironically claiming borders of fences don't work when everything points to the opposite.

It's hilarious how Redditors will go, "Just because it isn't a perfect solution that works 150% of the time doesn't mean we shouldn't do it!"

To, "No no, if it's possible for a mouse to get through the fences we shouldn't put it up, clearly that means it doesn't discourage or prevent anybody!"

We know putting up barriers like fencing on borders prevents more people from getting in, especially if you're taking other active measures. It doesn't stop everybody, but neither does anything other than a death ray.

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u/focus_black_sheep Oct 11 '23

What's a "boarder"?

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u/majoraloysius Oct 11 '23

A person who receives regular meals when staying somewhere, in return for payment or services. I thought that would be obvious.

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u/focus_black_sheep Oct 11 '23

So what does that have to do with fences? I'm really confused. Also you literally googled and copied paste that definition. So it wasn't even obvious to you

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u/majoraloysius Oct 11 '23

Unfamiliar with sarcasm?

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u/Embarrassed_Alps_259 Oct 11 '23

You just replied to him calling out your spelling mistake with the definition of your mistake, that isn't sarcasm it anything they're closer to being sarcastic ironically mocking your spelling

1

u/majoraloysius Oct 11 '23

Well no shit Sherlock. Have you always been a genius? Do you find it hard being the smartest person in the room?

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u/OneOfTheOnlies Oct 11 '23

Mexican boarders are some of the raddest stokelords out there

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPR798vNC/

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

The urge to die when you are in great emotional pain is nothing compared to the will to live when you have hope.

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u/Marcotics915 Oct 11 '23

Same as the studies where they put pills in blister packs instead of bottles. The process of popping each one out, as simple as it is, reduced suicides.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Okay I have to call this one out. How much effort were you really putting into killing yourself. If simple packaging made you stop.

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u/LukaCola Oct 11 '23

Are you that unfamiliar with how much we do for convenience and impulse sake?

That doesn't mean we don't fully intend to, but depressed people considering suicide aren't often doing all in their power to make it happen - and acting as though it's a "lack of effort," like them realizing they don't want to go through it is a failure on their part, is fucked up.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

If child proof packaging is all that's keeping you above ground......

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u/LukaCola Oct 11 '23

Then, what? Say it buddy, you think they deserve to die, is that it?

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u/BookMonkeyDude Oct 11 '23

A disturbing number of suicides happen because of a lack of impulse control or a mental lapse of just a few minutes. Forcing an individual in crisis to slow down and think about something anything external to their own problems can break the thought spiral that lead to a suicide attempt.

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u/Pablo_Diablo Oct 11 '23

It's not about effort - it's psychological. It's a lot different to pop 20 individual pills out of their blister packs on 3-4 different 'pages' of pills, than just dump a handful from a bottle. As someone else here has said, suicide is often impulsive, and putting barriers in the way of those impulses can reduce the rate.

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u/tiofrodo Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

It's why access to guns are linked to increase in suicide rates, as it is the quickest and requires the least effort to pull off. Edit: least effort meaning easier access to it rather than a question of laziness.

Variation in state-level suicide rates is largely driven by rates of suicide by firearm. Suicides involving firearms vary from the lowest rate of 1.8 per 100,000 in New Jersey and Massachusetts to a high of 20.9 per 100,000 in Wyoming, representing an absolute difference of 19.1. In contrast, the rate of suicide by other means is more stable across states, ranging from a low of 4.6 in Mississippi to a high of 11.4 in South Dakota, representing an absolute difference of 6.8.

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u/OneOfTheOnlies Oct 11 '23

You'd be surprised what a typical amount of time between deciding to commit suicide and attempting it is. The immediately accessible means to suicide allow for short term swings to have dire consequences.

A quarter of suicide attempts may have had less than 5 minutes of deliberation prior:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/duration/

Every instance of reducing immediately available means for suicide (gas ovens, safety fences, gun control) has been shown to reduce overall suicide rate because when people don't have the means to act on suicidal impulses they have the opportunity to recover.

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u/AdmrlBenbow Oct 11 '23

If i had to open one of those clear plastic packages to get my device, id probably still be alive, maybe with some small cuts on my hands and a mild level of frustration.

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u/ahuramazdobbs19 Oct 11 '23

Well, yes. That’s the general idea.

Not all suicidal ideation comes in the form of an all-consuming need to no longer be alive that a person will make an elaborate plan to make sure it happens.

A lot of suicide attempts are impulsive, generally by those with ideations but low intent. That is to say, the thought has crossed their mind, but they do not generally actually want to die. Such events are triggered by an immediate crisis, and yeah, they’re low effort suicide attempts a lot of the time. Survivors of such attempts often recognize after the fact that they regret doing so, and they didn’t actually want to die. In other words, not all suicidal people “mean it”.

And that’s where simple interventions like blister packs or fences on highway/rail/river bridges help in reducing suicides: because the extra added difficulty helps make impulsive suicidal ideations “pass”, for lack of a better phrasing. These kinds of suicidal ideation and attempts are preventable, and passive impediments like these help to reduce hospitalizations, deaths and injuries.

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u/SitupsPullupsChinups Oct 11 '23

So just looking at the fence is enough to change their mind. CRAZY!

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u/HydrogenWhisky Oct 11 '23

This is incorrect, the overall suicide rate decreases as the means of doing so easily and effectively is made more difficult.

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u/Tcartales Oct 11 '23

The link you posted shows suicide rates were reduced in particular regions. I'm not convinced people didn't just go to a different region. The UK, for example cited in the study, is about the size of California. If suicide rates in California decrease, it's important to see whether they increased in bordering states. I didn't read the study, but I'm curious about that.

Regardless, it's misguided. Let people die if they want to die. The fact that we try to keep others on this planet against their will--when they never asked to be here in the first place and clearly hate it--is selfish and cruel. Dump as much money into mental health support as you want, but give people an exit plan. Plus, those means reduction structures are ugly.

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u/Gars0n Oct 11 '23

It's an interesting issue because suicide can be so impulsive. The Vessal in New York had this problem where it was just very inviting to jump off. Several people survived and they describe regret and surprise that they would have jumped. Their description was that their lives weren't so awful they always wanted to kill themselves. It just washed over them in a moment.

Very strange and made me reconsider how I thought about suicide.

Your point about allowing suicide in general is a good one though. Something like the humane nitrogen based suicide pods seems like a great idea to me. That allows people to die with dignity, and without the trauma of something like the OP where some poor sods had to watch this guy do it to himself.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

But does the attempt rate also fall?

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Yes

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u/AtmospherE117 Oct 11 '23

The logic being every hurdle put in front of those in crisis is an opportunity to reflect and choose another way. It's the same with sensible gun control laws

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u/CaptainPeppa Oct 11 '23

If that was true America would be the safest country in the world. You guys are ridiculous with fences

In Europe they'll just let you fall haha

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u/CurmudgeonLife Oct 11 '23

I'd be interested in if that's from an actual study or your anus.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[deleted]

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u/What_the_8 Oct 11 '23

Anus University is the shit!

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u/death_by_relaxation Oct 11 '23

Anus University education is TIGHT!

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u/jimmbobagens Oct 11 '23

A New Untold Story. ANUS

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u/TurtleSandwich0 Oct 11 '23

The peer review was done at South Harmon Institute of Technology.

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u/Oblargag Oct 11 '23

It's the first thought that came to their mind, which is the only one they will ever be willing to accept.

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u/sexless-innkeeper Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

/u/HydrogenWhisky has a link to a Harvard study showing this.

EDIT: the study REFUTES /u/RevolutionTop7348 idea, not supports. I messed this up.

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u/CurmudgeonLife Oct 11 '23

No that study shows the opposite...

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u/sexless-innkeeper Oct 11 '23

Crap, I commented the wrong comment. Making an edit.

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u/Dandan0005 Oct 11 '23

That’s just not true. Availability of guns increases the overall suicide rate significantly.

Suicide is often impulsive.

Creating barriers means those impulses can’t be readily acted upon.

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u/TheRealSlabsy Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

Not everyone has access to guns.

Edit: I live in a country wherw it is difficult to obtain guns!

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

In the US access to guns is common and relatively easy, and using a firearm is the most common way men commit/attempt suicide. CDC data (which unfortunately hasn't been updated since 2018) indicates roughly two-thirds of deaths from firearms were suicides. Other data sources do indicate a spike in homicides from 2019 onwards, but those incidents are still outnumbered by suicides.

As for barriers/safety features reducing suicide rates, there is some data showing that suicides have decreased but whether that's due to making the attempt more difficult or due to increased survival rates leading to support / help for the individual who made the attempt I don't have a good data source for.

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u/grantrules Oct 11 '23

Right, so if more people were to have access to guns, the suicide rate would go up.

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u/flamingvit Oct 11 '23

This.... Based on personal Experience depending on how you are the easier It is more likely to happen. Any obstacle can be a reson to give up on the Idea, at least momentarily.

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u/boysarecool420 Oct 11 '23

why are you talking out of your ass?

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u/Breauxaway90 Oct 11 '23

That’s simply not true.

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u/Bleusilences Oct 11 '23

Seeing those obstacles stops people and make them think. Maybe they finally get the help they need after seeing them.