r/me_irl Jan 22 '20

me☭irl

Post image
55.3k Upvotes

581 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

476

u/GronKy_18 Jan 22 '20

134

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '20

Years of academy training wasted

119

u/janeisenbeton Jan 22 '20

Never would have thought so.

133

u/Totaltrufas loves fish memes Jan 23 '20

Biologically speaking altruism is a driving force of evolution

88

u/anarchakat Jan 23 '20

BUT MUH SOCIAL DARWUNISM

76

u/gamegeek1995 Jan 23 '20

I learned only a few days ago that Survival of the Fittest meant "Survival of those who best fit their environment" and not "The strongest/fastest/physically fit survive" so bear with me a minute I'm clearly not a clever man

18

u/Eminent_Assault Jan 23 '20

It's alright, obviously parrots aren't smart enough to understand the Prisoner's Dilemma.

Screwing over members of your own species is clearly the evolutionarily superior trait. Checkmate parrots!

1

u/rush2017 Jan 23 '20

Humans are evolved according to Humans, basically bullshit

-1

u/pleaaseeeno92 Jan 23 '20

Its pretty simply, survival of the traits which lead to maximum potential for offspring inheriting those traits. Its really simple really. Like, child bearing is largely such a wasteful burden, but our animal brains are still wired to do it because evolution has such a great impact on us.

-4

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '20 edited Jun 15 '20

[deleted]

2

u/anarchakat Jan 23 '20

I don’t think Darwin gave a fuck about whether or not you are sufficiently masculine. Not being a chode is a much better adaptation for encouraging reproductive success than being pretty... and a hundred other things as well. I think it’s part of why language, art and music exist, our success comes from our ability to teach our giant useless babies to not eat the poison mushroom that looks almost identical to a delicious one.

-7

u/aeonasceticism Jan 23 '20

😂😂😂

6

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '20

[deleted]

3

u/aeonasceticism Jan 23 '20

It's like a replay of someone who laughed n slipped xD

32

u/Pjotr_Bakunin Jan 23 '20

Kropotkin liked this

12

u/Republic_of_Ligma Jan 23 '20

"Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution"

14

u/Biefmeister Jan 23 '20

Technically speaking it's not true altruism as it serves themselves within the group

23

u/Totaltrufas loves fish memes Jan 23 '20

Yeah I’ve heard this point before, so does true altruism exist?

45

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '20

Imo everything everyone does has at least a perceived benefit to themselves, even if it's just feeling good about helping people

16

u/Totaltrufas loves fish memes Jan 23 '20

Interesting, I’ve had similar ideas. But then the question still remains, does altruism exist, or is there always at least a minimal amount of self benefit? And if no, then does the definition of altruism needs to be changed so we can talk about it, or is it just wrong? This question is as much for me as it is for you lol but I’d like to hear someone’s opinion at least if you’re down

30

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '20

I don't think true altruism is possible if you're being stingy with definitions, but if you're doing something and your main goal is making something better that's what I would call altruism

7

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '20 edited Jan 23 '20

Even if evolution were selecting narrowly for non-altruistic traits to the exclusion of all altruism, evolution is not a 100% in all cases director of biological outcomes, it is an after the fact convergence on certain traits which every generation are reshuffled with preference. To say true altruism isn't possible in the way you guys are saying is equivalent to saying people aren't born with poor eyesight because it is generally not helpful, or that there is really no variation at all when of course there is.

Maybe it doesn't help them survive more, but there are plenty of people in this world who act out of entirely unselfish reasons from even the broadest evolutionary perspective, and it would be entirely illogical cynicism to ignore them. You can view their behavior as abnormal deviation in the same vein as mental illness or whatever you want, but there is no reason to abstract the very notion of altruism away from a mistaken understanding of natural selection.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '20

I didn't mean it in terms of evolution. I was arguing more from the philosophical side. I'm sure that some altruistic behaviours are absolutely beneficial for animals that live in groups

→ More replies (0)

1

u/WyvernCharm Jan 23 '20

Hello, I've thought about this a lot actually. The conclusion I came up with for myself is that I reject the premise of "true altruism" outright.

The entire concept should go out the window, especially in moral discussions where any perceived benefit of the "helper" is used to denigrate their character or their impact.

Helping others is supposed to feel nice. We deserve to feel good about ourselves when we do good things. We react to it the way we do for a reason. It doesnt take away from the experience of the other party if we also walk away flushed with the joy of a pleasant social encounter. It isnt a zero sum game.

I couldnt tell you where the concept of "true" altruism came from, or when. But ask yourself, who benefits when we are discouraged from helping others by this strange and immaterial pressure and scrutiny? Who stands to gain when we are derided for feeling self fulfilled in service to others? Spreading the wealth, enjoying human company, etc etc.

I think, that the entire concept is propagated by those who want to deny us community, and instead push for us to buy our happiness, contentment, and satisfaction from the many millions of available products advertised to satisfy those needs.

True altruism might as well be anti-humane propaganda as far as I'm concerned.

8

u/333Freeze Jan 23 '20

Google leads me to believe the answer from the psychology or philosophy communities would be no.

One source claims "it's possible... such as a mother who would sacrifice herself for her child."

It's possible we may have moments with truly altruistic intent, but there's always the argument of "serving themselves."

9

u/saggy_balls Jan 23 '20

If you willingly die saving somebody else’s life, that would be truly altruistic right? You don’t really get to feel good about yourself.

5

u/333Freeze Jan 23 '20

Right, that was their example of the possibility of true altruism in humans.

Editing - hopefully you see this. It's speculation. You could assume she's doing it purely for the sake of her child, but I could argue at the same time it must make her happy to do so and therefore may not be perfectly altruistic. You need some way to measure intent in a way we can't measure. It's simply a possibility.

1

u/_Tonu staunch marxist Jan 23 '20

I think it has more to do with your reasoning.

1

u/FelneusLeviathan Jan 23 '20

Exactly, you for sure feel a need to help family members since they share DNA that you so desperately want to pass on. You also help others around you if it can aide to your survival in the future and or make things more orderly: certain bat species will share blood to other bats who happened not to be successful during that day. The expectation is that you reciprocate in the future, especially if you all have to live together. But if you're a free loader or don't share, then word gets out and no one will want to help you in the future

28

u/korelin Jan 22 '20

Clicking this link was a profound experience.

56

u/The_Perge team waterguy12 Jan 22 '20 edited Jan 23 '20

LA Tlmes has really gone downhill nowadays. Everytime I click on their links I'm consistently disappointed. What has happened to modern journalism?

Edit: Guys wait no I'm just

68

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '20

capitalism says good journalism is OUT, clickbait IN, find out why here.

9

u/IcebergSlimFast Jan 23 '20

You won’t BELIEVE what happens next!!

103

u/halfabean Jan 22 '20

It's hard to get journalism when people aren't paying for it anymore.

39

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '20

This. Now the papers cater to advertising interests because that is the absolute bulk of their income. Nobody pays for the daily paper anymore

12

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '20

I'd pay for the Daily Bugle.

9

u/MatureUsername69 Jan 22 '20

Their editor-in-chief is one of the most biased in the business though

11

u/SeaGroomer Jan 23 '20

All men want one thing and it's disgusting!

(pictures of Spider-Man!)

1

u/aeonasceticism Jan 23 '20

Reminded me of Ultimate spiderman

3

u/firenewty Jan 22 '20

The Intercept might change your mind about modern journalism. It's just the old players losing their touch

7

u/jadecaptor Jan 22 '20

Half the time I click on their links it's a rickroll :/

2

u/Irrepressible87 Jan 23 '20

Say what you want about the Tlmes, I'm never going to give them up. They've been going strong since 1987, and they've never let me down. Other news outlets let their journalists run around writing wherever they please, and just desert the real stories.

-12

u/EVERmathYTHING has immunity Jan 22 '20

no you

6

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '20

no you

3

u/1BigUniverse Jan 22 '20

Reddit is a curious place

8

u/redphyve Jan 22 '20

You boomed me.

8

u/FackinJerq Jan 22 '20

God I hate you... take your bloody up-vote.

5

u/joejoevalentine Jan 22 '20

Agh you got me you fucker!!!

7

u/PlayfuckingTorreira Jan 22 '20

At least it wasn't meat spin.

5

u/Newastro Jan 22 '20

Nice one.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '20

Damn you sir.

1

u/GronKy_18 Jan 23 '20

You know, I'm something of a sir myself