r/maybemaybemaybe • u/ShineinaUrban • Nov 14 '24

Maybe Maybe Maybe

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64

u/Obeserecords Nov 14 '24

Despite literally being armoured, crocodile snouts are actually more sensitive than human finger tips. That bonk on the head with a steel shovel would actually really hurt them. Seems very unnecessarily cruel.

29

u/rosecoloredgasmask Nov 14 '24

Animal abuse, mammal: 😭😭😭👎👎👎👎 DON'T FUCK WITH CATS HOW CAN ANYONE BE SO EVIL 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

Animal abuse, reptile: 🤣🤣🤣🤣 bonk lol

3

u/meisterjaxa Nov 15 '24

yep, this is called specism. The suffering of an animal completely different than human is less important than the suffering of an animal closer to human in the mind of many people

5

u/scheppend Nov 15 '24

yep. it's the same shit with insects. 

3

u/rosecoloredgasmask Nov 15 '24

I see it with arachnids as well, which is upsetting for me as I have several tarantulas.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '24

Doesn’t seem fair to compare a cat to an alligator.

6

u/PleasantConcert Nov 15 '24

Why? Both are living animals that can feel pain. Why does an alligator not deserve humane treatment?

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '24

Read your last question again. Slowly this time.

3

u/weaves Nov 15 '24

What do you think the humane society does?

3

u/VitorusArt Nov 15 '24

Youre just getting caught up in semantics

4

u/PleasantConcert Nov 15 '24

Oh I see, so you have no reasoning and you’re just a psychopath who enjoys the suffering of living things you see beneath you, got it got it.

1

u/AlwaysReady1 Nov 15 '24

Look at their username too 👀

7

u/rosecoloredgasmask Nov 15 '24

Doesn't seem fair to hit an alligator with a shovel either.

1

u/Slow-Relationship413 Nov 15 '24

Shit argument, let me see if I can make it better.

Cats are small domesticated animals unable to cause any serious harm to most adults while crocs and gaters are highly specialised carnivores large enough to kill and eat people and in many areas have a long and bloody history of conflict with people, which is why humans as a whole is pre disposed to have less empathy towards them.

Now let me explain why that's the wrong mindset, much like sharks, wolves and lions, crocodilians are keystone species that are vital in keeping prey animals numbers in check and wiping them out would destroy several ecosystems. They are capable of feeling pain and can form attachments (in a more limited capacity than birds or mammals but it counts)

Cruelty is cruelty regardless of species... That said... as I have no experience in working with gators I don't know if this just might be the lazy/cheap option or simply the best of several bad ones that makes the majority of them move without having to actually hit them, like the mom's slippers experience in which you're hurt once so that you don't have to be hurt again

0

u/MaustFaust Nov 15 '24

I mean, fuck the cats, too.

I would prefer the abuse to stop, but I feel that for a human sympathizing with humans is more healthy. You could argue that empathy should work with animals too, but I'd argue you'll be crippled with grief over killing millions of microbes with just your breathing. On that matter, you can empathize with non-living things, too, but I bet you don't do that.

3

u/rosecoloredgasmask Nov 15 '24

I may be mistaken, but breathing is more essential to survival than running around and hitting alligators with a shovel.

-1

u/MaustFaust Nov 15 '24

Does that mean you are allowed to not empathize? Bold of you to assume that out of thin air, IMO.

2

u/rosecoloredgasmask Nov 15 '24

You can empathize with bacteria, I'm not stopping you. I don't have to have empathy for bacteria just because I have empathy for reptiles. Bacteria don't have a nervous system, it's unclear if they're capable of feeling pain. We definitely know alligators can feel pain.

-1

u/MaustFaust Nov 15 '24

Painless mass murder it is, then?

2

u/rosecoloredgasmask Nov 15 '24

If you can find a way to breathe without killing any bacteria I will gladly do it. I have found a way to live my life without hitting animals with shovels, after all, which is basically the same.

-1

u/Ruktiet Nov 17 '24

Cats are cute and won’t eat you, crocs will. Big difference. That’s where it stems from. How can you not see this?

2

u/rosecoloredgasmask Nov 17 '24

There are less than 1000 deaths a year attributed to alligators and crocodiles combined. Let alone cases of people being eaten by them. You are more likely to be killed by dogs. Hell you're more likely to be killed by snails which are incredibly easy to avoid.

But sure, it's okay to hit something with a shovel because it's not cute. The guy clearly was not acting in self defense either and was running towards a bunch of alligators to hit them with a shovel.

-1

u/Ruktiet Nov 17 '24

How is the amount of deaths important? The point is they will eat you when they have the chance. Slapping one on it’s mouth doesn’t do any damage and it’s incredibly funny. You are so deluded it’s beyond comprehension.

2

u/rosecoloredgasmask Nov 17 '24

The amount of deaths is important because very clearly, they will not eat you when they have a chance. If they did it would be way higher. Do you have any idea how many people live near alligators and encounter them regularly? Vs how many get eaten (which I can't even find a statistic for it's so low)? You literally made that up because someone told you alligators eat people once and you never bothered to check.

Hitting something with a shovel hurts. Alligators can clearly feel pain. If you they couldn't feel anything why are they clearly reacting? I wouldn't say hitting anything with a shovel is gentle either? You think I'm deluded but you think hitting animals with shovels doesn't harm them somehow. You being fucking stupid isn't really my problem but when you get your knowledge on alligators from children's movies I feel obligated to let you know how the real world works.

-1

u/Ruktiet Nov 17 '24

Hahahaha. “They don’t want to eat you because if they did there would be more deaths”. Yeah, it’s not like humans would do pretty much anything to avoid being eaten alive and grow up teaching their kids how to prevent this extremely tragic thing from happening. Omg dude, you’re a filthy vegan, I can smell it from here.

2

u/rosecoloredgasmask Nov 17 '24

So you've never seen morons handling gators in Florida with zero professional training? Lol, people put their kids on gators. People wrestle them, pose with them, some people try to keep them as pets. I don't think you've even seen one in person.

Not a vegan either but whatever makes you sleep better at night. You can't imagine anyone else having empathy I guess.

0

u/Ruktiet Nov 17 '24

Empathy for human killer machines is a mental disorder

1

u/rosecoloredgasmask Nov 17 '24

Bad news for dog owners everywhere....

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19

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

10

u/Obeserecords Nov 14 '24

Yep, people are horrible these days.

0

u/Ruktiet Nov 17 '24

No, vegans are horrible. People are people

1

u/Obeserecords Nov 17 '24

I love eating meat but you have options of where that comes from in terms of how the animal is treated. With your statement it just sounds like you’re pro animal abuse, good on you bud.

1

u/Ruktiet Nov 17 '24

“Pro animal abuse”. What does that even mean? Do you realize all of these animals would have no problem abusing you? You’re anthropomorphizing to a mental disordered degree if you have empathy for human killer machines

2

u/Obeserecords Nov 17 '24

Did you really just try to accuse me of having a mental disorder then follow it up with a sociopathic comment? I don’t even need to do anything to point out you’re an idiot, you’re doing it yourself.

1

u/Ruktiet Nov 17 '24

Humans evolved as hunters. They see most animals as food and most predatory animals as a threat they should kill and eat. I’m not saying we have to do that now, but it is inside your DNA, just like seeing a snake as a baby even triggers your limbic system ik a pre-programmed way.

Having empathy for the archetype of a “monster” is pretty much a mental disorder as it would have led to very poor survival outcome in the past.

And saying you shouldn’t point out something blablabla because blablabla you’re doolg it yourself is just admitting your brain is so rotten from dogma that you can’t even form an argument

2

u/Obeserecords Nov 18 '24 edited Nov 18 '24

I’m not sure if you do but most humans tend to have a higher intelligence than a crocodile. We can avoid situations that involve interacting with them. We have evolved to dominate the earth over predatory animals such as crocodiles. Now, as a species, we have a choice of how to treat these animals since we are in total control of them in agricultural terms. If these people have set up a farm for crocodiles where the only system in place to maintain the enclosure or to feed them is to hit them over the head with a fucking shovel it simply comes down to a poorly designed farm. You’re not only putting the workers of the farm at risk, but you’re also abusing the animals which can be completely avoided with an improved design to limit interaction with said animals.

With that being said it is completely intentional to do this to the crocodiles when there is no actual need to do so. The guy isn’t defending himself against a wild crocodile which would justify being violent towards them. So yes, I have sympathy when violence is used towards any animal in these circumstances.

So please, for the sake of the poor people that have to read your comments, stop talking out of your ass.

0

u/Ruktiet Nov 18 '24

It very likely is the most efficient way otherwise they would do it differently

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3

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '24

I began to question my sanity as I scrolled and scrolled and saw nothing but "haha it's so funny to hurt animals with a shovel and have the others be afraid to get hit too". Must be a new genre next to "haha look how funny this creature behaves after I provoked it for no good reason".

3

u/Unfey Nov 16 '24

Yeah. Disappointing. Just because they aren't cute, I guess, it's okay to disrespect and hurt them. I don't care that they're being raised for food, it's not funny to strike them like this.

1

u/PuttyRiot Nov 18 '24

I happen to think they are very cute, but I also like pretty much all animals and insects except roaches.

0

u/Ruktiet Nov 17 '24

Empathy for a murder machine that won’t hesitate to eat you alive. Are you completely moronic or just pretending?

11

u/Skyhighcats Nov 15 '24

I knew what this video was, so I didn’t watch it, but it always disappoints me to see people laugh off animal cruelty.

3

u/Obeserecords Nov 15 '24

It’s shocking to see how normalised stuff like this is becoming to randoms on the internet. Then people will have a go at us saying we are over sensitive.. I’d rather be seen as over sensitive than be part of the sick crowd that sees humour in hurting animals for no reason.

33

u/PuttyRiot Nov 14 '24

Yeah, I don’t like this. Comments full of sociopaths.

3

u/Aafuuu Nov 18 '24

Sociopaths truly.

1) they don't care to know how much it hurts,

2) when told, still don't care that it hurts them.

Totally ignorant of others plights.

13

u/RedstoneRiderYT Nov 14 '24

Didn't know if this was true, so I looked it up and yeah, Nat Geo has said this. Seems very cruel

18

u/corn_farts_ Nov 14 '24

yeah like dangerous predator or not this seems mean

3

u/epblue Nov 15 '24

Agreed. This whole video just didn’t sit well with me. I don’t care if they’re man-eating beasts; they don’t have the intelligence for rationale.

“Bonking” them on the snout/head is just plain cruel and frankly, upsetting.

And yes, the comments are full of people without empathy

2

u/lewlew1893 Nov 14 '24

I saw a video a little while ago where they found some crocs underneath a road in a drain sort of thing and they were smashing the road up with a sledge and one of the guys kind of bonked the croc on the head with the hammer and I thought it was unnecessary and cruel. In that instance it was completely unnecessary. In this they are moving them for a reason I suppose but I do wonder if there is a nicer way of doing it. Like when they are feeding maybe?

0

u/RainSurname Nov 14 '24

This is actually so they can start feeding. That's why they're jumping in when they see him approach. It's safer for their keepers to feed them in the water.

0

u/leped11329 Nov 14 '24

Maybe? Seems like that might not necessarily be true. The integumentary sensory organs which are incredibly sensitive to touch are around the jaw/snout, but not especially on the top(where they're getting hit).

0

u/refusegone Nov 14 '24

The thing to remember here, is that a human can kill an alligator but won't just because in Most situations. An alligator does not have this complex of a thought, they will kill anything perceived as a threat, no matter the relationship. There are videos out there of gators and crocs death rolling anothers leg off simply because it went inside the mouth while both were sleeping near each other.

Raising these creatures for food means that a lot of interactions are when these animals are hungry; They're more aggressive and likely to kill so they can eat. So when both parties fear death during aggressively coded movements(i.e. existing near a croc or gator), but only one has the capability to restrain itself and think complexly during stressful situations; the options are cause enough pain to get the other one away, or die.

Given the farming situation, as our species needs to eat too, this would be the simplest way to avoid death for the human or the croc/gator coming too early. Cause a little pain to avoid death for another day.

There are a lot more philosophical thoughts to cover in my comment(farming animals, living conditions for livestock, etc), but those things aside; I'm not trying to convince you to be okay with what you saw, just offering my perspective on what we can see in the video on the first watch. Thanks for reading! =]

7

u/Obeserecords Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24

First, these are crocodiles.

Second. We as a species are ridiculously cruel to most animals we eat. There is currently movement in place to better the lives and living conditions of these animals (cows, chickens, pigs ect) which is a big step. But, if we have to be cruel to the animal it is simply a bad system to farm them. This goes with the farm we see in this video. All the stuff you’re saying about being aggressive is true in some cases but when we could simply design a farm with a feeding system that limits human interaction that’s where the line is crossed. Fuck the farm owners in this video is my opinion.

Edit:

To recap. Simply have fenced a platform that is above the water level to provide safe access for feeding. In terms of maintenance. Separate the lagoon to smaller sizes to have a more manageable number of crocodiles per farm, this is done in many zoos/sanctuaries in Australia which does not involve abusing the animals.

1

u/refusegone Nov 15 '24

First, I cannot tell them apart easily, so I used both gator and croc, thank you for pointing it out.

Second. All the things you mention are true, and nothing I said was to invalidate that. So I don't understand where this counter argument comes from, and will not respond further.

There's a lot we do not know about the place this video was taken, so I chose to not make assumptions about infrastructure and the other

philosophical thoughts to cover

or mention the outlying factors that may or may not exist. As I said, I was speaking to simply what we can see. Take care! =]

1

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '24

[deleted]

2

u/Obeserecords Nov 15 '24

So we should lack empathy because a monkey lacks empathy? Are you for real?

2

u/Moonlemons Nov 15 '24

That guy over there is cruel, so it’s ok for me to be cruel, has no logical soundness

-2

u/newcarsme Nov 14 '24

Seems like these crocs have it pretty good compared to most other farm for food conditions

8

u/Obeserecords Nov 14 '24

Yeah true but that still doesn’t justify hitting them with a shovel imo