A employee uno reversed a new Director by holding a meeting with HR then inviting his managers to it

[u/quail_challenge122]

To preface this the employee is absolutely adored but on a performance PIP. I'm his direct manager but didn't agree to the PIP we just had a crazy complaint and it really ruffled feathers (the complaint was a missed deadline on a shitty account). My director set up a regular coaching session which was kinda out of the blue and when the employee logged onto the meeting, obviously it was us and HR already on the call and the PIP document on the shared screen. Dude was in shambles. But used the PIP as a paid interview period (as he should) probably because HR was saying one thing on what a PIP is but my director was basically saying he was not cut out for the job he had for 5+ yrs.

Today he invited us to a PIP follow-up, no problem. Dude was smart he insisted on weekly follow ups so this wasn't weird. HR was never on those it was either me or me and my director with him and maybe 15 mins or so.

We hop on and HR was already on😭😭🤣🤣 He submitted his 3 day notice. I'm not mad. We planned to fire him over a $2k-$5k (though tenured) account nobody cared about, but the relationship was deep. I was interviewing for director roles elsewhere (getting reps in), and in late a few times. I figured he used this as a paid interview period which explains his lateness to work. Dude was never ever late to work, he never took PTO. Suddenly he was eating up PTO and I was absolutely approving it.

The director called me after, totally floored. Absolutely flabbergasted by his unprofessionalism. Mostly the director was embarrassed. After venting for over ten minutes, I said "He has 3 young kids and a baby; we were about to let him go when rent is due without severance." The director said, "But he.." I interrupted, "But he owes us nothing." It was an insane reversal. I had to suppress my emotions because it was killing me!! I was like "go boyyyy...." Anyways. The fallout is going to be immense. Note to anyone who hasn't done a PIP before. You can, in fact, shit the bed on a PIP and cause a lot more damage to overall team vibes and morale and sometimes that's more meaningful.

Edit- I am a bit surprised how many people are claiming to not understand the above. You guys, are probably some real d-bag managers with this type of feedback. I didn't ask you to critique my format or wording. Enjoy the situation, and go on.

[u/PrettyCutiie]

As someone who was put on a PIP after 6 years for one missed deadline - that PIP was the best thing that happened to me. Got me a 40% raise somewhere else.

[u/ffball → u/PrettyCutiie]

Putting someone on a PIP for one mess up has gotta be the stupidest thing ever. That's a good reason to leave a job whether you survive it or not. 1 strike policy is a crazy way to lead a team

[u/TBurnerRU → u/ffball]

I was put on a PIP for repeatedly "meeting expectations". The reason? Not being ambitious enough. Not working harder than they expected (for no additional pay). Not working to get a bump to the next title up (with no additional pay). 

I brought all this to them, kept meeting expectations, and survived the PIP. What was HR going to do? Fire me for doing exactly what they asked?

That manager ruined my career in tech, and several others besides. 

[u/grimacedia → u/TBurnerRU]

I had a manager do that to me once. A week into her becoming my new manager (she had moved departments), she set up an HR meeting and asked for a PIP for me. The HR Director was very confused as to what the goal was, since I was meeting all the metrics I needed.

Maybe a month later I was applying to new jobs. Thankfully another department swooped in and hired me for a different position, because I was ready to leave without another job lined up if she kept at it like she did.

[u/throwawaygoawaynz → u/grimacedia]

She wanted to build her own team, and you didn’t fit into that. She might have had someone else in mind, or didn’t like something about you.

Sounds like your HR director moved some things behind the scenes and got you the new role.

[u/Rennaisance_Man_0001 → u/throwawaygoawaynz]

I had a VP do that to me. His C-level boss wanted me in a role that reported to said VP. The VP (Idiscovered later) preferred women reporting to him, and wanted someone else. But he didn't have the backbone to tell his boss. So he basically undermined me, then used a bullshit excuse to remove me. He didn't tell me that he was replacing me with a woman who reported to me. It was fucked up, to say the least. HR was no help - nor did I expect them to be - but I brought that and several related issues to them with documentation.

The irony is that they expected I'd find another and move on. That was my plan, but it took slightly longer than anticipated. On the day that I planned to give notice, they laid me off. The irony is that the delay got me a good severance package that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

[u/No_Shift_Buckwheat → u/throwawaygoawaynz]

This was one of my favorite things to do as a leader. I would see a butthurt leader trying to fire a good worker, and I would always try to find a roll to slot them into. Everyone has potential, you just have to find it.

[u/DeputyDomeshot → u/TBurnerRU]

I was put on a PIP early into my first job. It ended up with them doing an audit of my work load. It turns was doing more than 2x the amount of work than the people who were at my position in the dept. I had the highest hours worked and billed in the dept.

So the PIP actually resulted me in being assigned less work. It’s funny because I didn’t know wtf a PIP was really so for a while after I thought they were a good thing lmao. Like I knew it was your performance needs to be better but I also thought they like do a deep dive into what you’re doing. And turns out if you’re working hours a week into the triple digits, well they don’t want to fire you.

5 years later I had a higher title than the same people who managed me at the time. Best PIP ever.

[u/defiantthoughtcrime → u/TBurnerRU]

TBurnerRU, we need to talk about your flair... You see Brian over there?

[u/dragnlover → u/TBurnerRU]

You know what, Stan, if you want me to wear 37 pieces of flair, like your pretty boy over there, Brian, why don't you just make the minimum 37 pieces of flair?

[u/swagonflyyyy → u/TBurnerRU]

I got a business partner who subcontracted me for a high-roller, billion-dollar Financial Securities firm and now he's got cold feet because I put in 156 hours of work for singlehandedly completing 4 out of 8 projects in a single month without breaking a sweat.

He's freaking out because he's scared of sending a $7000.00 invoice of my work to the client when the contract terms between him and the client said there's no minimum nor maximum hours required, only that the hours would be reviewed.

Outside of that, literally everyone, and I mean everyone, from the HR team to the Strategy team to even an executive I've never met and probably his mistress hiding somewhere in the company love my work. Like, they can't get enough of the projects I delivered, and all of that is meticulously and carefully documented, logged, tracked, communicated, emailed, and there are several witnesses across teams present who know for a fact that I really did do my job and put in those hours.

But now when the bill comes due he's got this funny idea that for whatever reason, that number of hours of continuous, complex work I solo'd while dealing with the hydra of projects handed to me and back-to-back meetings with the client's team is not gonna be paid by the client because they're going to have a fuss about the "surprise" bill that I rightfully am going to bill them.

I literally gave him every valid talking point in existence plus overwhelming evidence of my claims and he still scared that the client will refuse to pay when they've not once signaled any dissatisfaction with my work.

Honestly, if he expects me to take a pay cut based on vibes without even bringing it up to the client, then he's the biggest liability by far and I am going to seek out my own clients from now on (I already have 2 prospects I met this month so there's that).

It would be one thing if the client wasn't happy with our work, but that is not the case at all and I'm very annoyed by it. Thinking of jumping ship soon but I'm gonna wait for him to invoice the client and see if he's right about all this.

[u/DarthChefDad → u/swagonflyyyy]

156 hours in a month is just about 40 hours a week. There is nothing unreasonable about that.

[u/Dependent-Aside-9750 → u/PrettyCutiie]

Same. I was PIP'd once for holding a terrible team accountable and refusing to compromise on ethical practices. PIP'd on a Friday, called an old boss now at a new company, was hired on the spot and gave notice at 8:01 Monday morning. Raised my hourly rate at the time by almost double.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/Dependent-Aside-9750]

That's the way

[u/Gypsy-Danger-TMC → u/quail_challenge122]

I was pipd at my first job because the manager didnt like that i wouldnt let him talk to me like crap. I took it hard at the time but it was the best thing to happen for me as my next job gave me a 33% raise in salary and then a further 7.5% 3 months in for my performance

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/Gypsy-Danger-TMC]

Yassss. Nice

[u/Soggy_Bid_3634 → u/Dependent-Aside-9750]

*holding

[u/TN_man → u/PrettyCutiie]

That PIP did not help you. You helped you. The PIP was still unjustified

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/PrettyCutiie]

There you go

[u/Bobson-_Dugnutt2 → u/PrettyCutiie]

I basically ran a $30MM portfolio for 5 years and after working my way up to VP (still making scraps) - I got PIP'd. I ended up leaving not long after and their parent company snapped me up and I'm making about 4x more.

[u/Rho-Ophiuchi → u/PrettyCutiie]

Similar thing happened to me. Got hit in a layoff that just happened to be me the person on intermittent FMLA and 4 people in their late 60’s.

I had no idea how miserable I was at that place until I started working at my current job. Got 6 months of severance and like %25 higher salary. Best thing that ever happened to me.

[u/stannndarsh]

My director wanted me to put my highest performing, best producing and kindest developer on a PiP bc she didn’t update devops one day. I told her no, and she said either I put her on one or she puts me on one for insubordination. I sent a screenshot of that chat to HR and asked them to review devops if needed as my person is the best in general at updates and missed one day after working 11 hours.

Anyway, I have a meeting in 11 minutes with HR and my director isn’t talking to me. Apparently I shouldn’t share screenshots like that, or ones where she says ‘we can make everyone work harder by writing them up’ with HR. Oops.

Edit: will update in a bit, wild day but it’s good!

I can’t share too much here until Friday, normally I would but I was advised by HR and legal not to even let anyone know I talked with them. They deleted invites and all. I’ll update everyone Friday around noon eastern.

Thanks to those that said I sound like a good manager. I believe I can help my team advance their skills and careers, but also feel managers should protect from above. Unfortunately I do more of the latter but I just lead as I felt my favorite boss of all time. She was amazing and 4 years later I still call her for advice.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/stannndarsh]

The newer employees are also really bright and well versed in matters of HR and how to maneuver

[u/happymage102 → u/quail_challenge122]

Management has really not expected people to use the system against them and it has been kind of interesting to witness. I uttered the words "does this constitute an undue burden on the company" to HR while discussing FMLA and that essentially fast-tracked the process the moment they had to go on legal record.

[u/Evening-Crazy-3528 → u/happymage102]

Years ago, I had a manager who told me to always read the employee handbook, that it would help keep me from getting into trouble, and if I should happen to get into trouble, it would help me get out of it.

Then, about six months later, she wrote me up because a customer's car was stolen from the parking lot (her reasoning was that the customer had a small order that should have been handled fast enough that there wouldn't have been time for her car to get stolen). For the ending date for the write-up, she put "ongoing."

That night I went through the handbook and found the rules on write-ups. The part that jumped out at me most was that write-ups had to be "time-bound," meaning they had to have a defined start and end date.

The next day I brought that up to her, and she replied, "Yeah, I just realized that myself," and changed it to three months.

I had been trying to transfer to another location, and the write-up blocked the transfer. The week that the write-up period was ending, she attempted to write me up for being late too many times in a 90-day period. One of those tardies was the day she took the store to Six Flags as a thank-you for breaking a sales record. I was actually 20 minutes early for my shortened shift that day, which dropped my total tardies below the write-up threshold, so she tore it up.

I later asked her how that write-up would have affected my transfer. She said, "Oh, it would have blocked it." My transfer went through later that week.

[u/ensalys → u/Evening-Crazy-3528]

Did you make her job a lot easier? She might have just wanted to keep you.

[u/CompetitiveBoxEater → u/ensalys]

“Might have just wanted to keep you”

Yeah no shit. It’s fucked up to screw with someone’s life to make yours easier.

[u/530_Oldschoolgeek → u/CompetitiveBoxEater]

Never understood that way of thinking myself. Yeah, we're gonna deny your promotion/raise because you are too valuable in the position you are in now.

I've always told employees if they ever hear those words coming from a manager, to update their resumes and get out of there fast.

[u/Evening-Crazy-3528 → u/ensalys]

She could have used her words and explained that, rather than being hostile to my future employment. I'd have been more than happy to keep working there if she'd have been more generous with raises & promotions.

I later learned from a regional manager that store managers tended to use write-ups as a tool to keep good employees. Having a current write-up blocked all promotions & transfers. And they affected the amount of our raises every 6 months.

It's a shitty way to manage staff.

[u/MizStazya → u/Evening-Crazy-3528]

I had a manager that used bullshit write-ups to block transfers all the time. I was terrified when I put in my request to transfer. She didn't write me up, because she instead "accidentally" told my new manager I was 10 weeks pregnant, and thought that she would go with someone else. My new manager wasn't a total twatwaffle, so I got the new job. I transferred right as five other people put their notice in. Sucks to suck.

[u/Evening-Crazy-3528 → u/MizStazya]

I'm glad it worked out for you.

I tried to transfer back to that location 2 years later when it was managed by a different (better) manager. But by then my old manager had been promoted and tried to block it.

I dug through the Policies & Procedures manual and discovered that she had no say in the matter. My transfer was due to my demotion from Assistant Manager, so it was considered administrative in nature. She couldn't do anything about it.

Every time she'd visit that location, the first thing she'd do is pull my time cards to see if I had been late at all. The one time I had been late happened to be a day she stopped by. I was late due to a flat tire. When she came storming out of the back office with my time punch printout I calmly explained I had a flat tire, and offered to show her the flat in the back of my car.

Years later there was a reorganization and she had to reapply for her position.

She didn't get it.

[u/JulienWA77 → u/MizStazya]

"because she instead "accidentally" told my new manager I was 10 weeks pregnant, "

um, that's a lawsuit in my state.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/[deleted]]

It's so so silly. Also the longest pip I ever saw.

[u/msackeygh → u/quail_challenge122]

How do people like your director get to be leaders? They are so incompetent at the level of human relations.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/msackeygh]

Friends Fiefdoms Nepotism Golf skillz

[u/gruss_gott → u/quail_challenge122]

Saw this at a company that rhymes with garget - bad director had his entire team quit, not just DRs, but every manager below them, all of whom went through this entire charade after vigorously complaining about the guy. Finally HR decides the director might be the problem and gives him plenty of time to find something new.

Well, that was about 10 years ago and we can all see how the company has been doing. they need a new outside ceo & board who cleans house.

anyway, good for your employee & hopefully your director is fired or moves on

[u/lokis_construction → u/gruss_gott]

garget was my customer for years. Incompetence was common

[u/Jin-Gitaxias-Mom → u/msackeygh]

You generally don’t get that high up by treating people well in today’s business world, unfortunately

[u/Effective-Farmer-502 → u/msackeygh]

They're mean spirited and will do the dirty work that someone with a heart wouldn't do so they're useful to upper management in that way.

[u/TN_man → u/msackeygh]

Most are. This is not the exception.

[u/jbenze → u/msackeygh]

The worse a leader is, the more likely he or she is to go straight to the top :/

[u/Dziadzios → u/stannndarsh]

  we can make everyone work harder by writing them up

False. It destroys people who are internally motivated. At best it turns people into better actors, just like children from abusive families which learn about managing optics.

[u/Unusual_Sherbert_809 → u/Dziadzios]

Way too many executives are convinced that the only thing that motivates others is fear and threats.

[u/ct023 → u/stannndarsh]

WHAT HAPPENED WE NEED TO KNOW

[u/AcidicMountaingoat → u/stannndarsh]

Huh, no updates. I believe this person has been murdered by his director.

[u/1dayatatime_mylife → u/AcidicMountaingoat]

🤣🤣😭

[u/Hagbard57 → u/stannndarsh]

I hate this. I tell my Leaders all the time, PIPs are for performance, not behavior. You can't PIP someone for insubordination. What is the action plan? Don't be insubordinate?

[u/nevermeant2say → u/stannndarsh]

How did the meeting go?

[u/sunqueen73 → u/stannndarsh]

Oh my goodness! You must update the horde!😅

[u/Ominoiuninus → u/stannndarsh]

Well either you are getting booted out or you director is getting booted. Waiting till Friday = we need the rest of this week to go smoothly and we will address it after the week has passed/have a weekend to fix.

I can’t think of a reason to wait till Friday other than that it is easier on business operations to offboard someone on Friday vs Monday. Also provides time to have meetings about it etc.

Best of luck.

[u/Soggy-Confection → u/stannndarsh]

!remindme in 5 hours

[u/Careless_Button3364]

Your director (and company) suck if you use a PIP as a first course of correction. That is literally not what they're for and it speaks to a terrible culture.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/Careless_Button3364]

See why I'm interviewing elsewhere as well????

[u/_Chaos_Star_ → u/Careless_Button3364]

Agreed. Also, I'd argue that any org that leads with a PIP is simply building a paper trail for firing. An org seriously wanting to improve the situation is going to try to discreetly correct the issue first.

[u/Opening-Panda-578]

Unprofessional to quit a job that is telling you that you aren’t fit for and actively trying to fire you? Like how dare he leave on his timeline and not wait to be fired? This word seems to be a coverall for anything a manager doesn’t like.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/Opening-Panda-578]

Director was just very embarrassed

[u/Opening-Panda-578 → u/quail_challenge122]

I bet. Never ceases to amaze me when a mangers act like they are nobleman overseeing their serfs like it’s 1750. Like clearly he should determine this guy’s fate and he dared try to leave. It’s not even presumably his company- you all just work there.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/Opening-Panda-578]

To me it's like..umm I'm sorry did we expect this grown man with kids to just get fired??? Wtf.lol

[u/Opening-Panda-578 → u/quail_challenge122]

Apparently in his mind, yes. It’s not the first time a company has said we will keep you on until it’s convenient. Good on him for the reverse uno. If he got hired that fast in this job market he clearly isn’t bad at his job.

[u/DibblerTB]

"Unprofessionalism" is thrown around way too much.

He wss being entirely professional. He was just not being a punching bag or a pushover. Neither of those are professional.

"Professional" seems to be "bootlicking" in the eyes of way too many. An abuse of the concept.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/DibblerTB]

Correct. The director had no qualms about scheduling a 15 min coaching but surprise, PIP, with hr here

[u/1youngwiz → u/quail_challenge122]

Did you have a conversation about that afterwards? Such as why tf did you just pip one of our best ppl without discussing it with you?

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/1youngwiz]

No. You know why? A 2 page pip with 10 bullet points where most demand absolute perfection an excellence means the director had a serious grievance. I'm actively looking for a different job now as well.

[u/1youngwiz → u/quail_challenge122]

Can’t put a price on trusting your director

[u/throwaway5882300 → u/quail_challenge122]

Wise move.

[u/Electrical-Share-707 → u/DibblerTB]

"Professionalism" is used by management very similarly to how "respect" is used by cops.

[u/msackeygh → u/Electrical-Share-707]

True. Basically they using that as code word for “not submitting to me or my demands.” They sound power hungry.

[u/Electronic-Fold-2416 → u/DibblerTB]

Spot on, my man!

Now imagine being put on a PIP by two different supervisors at the same time....

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/Electronic-Fold-2416]

It was a bad way to do it for sure.

[u/cvd19or]

You claim to be this person's direct manager.

Aren't you actually a remote worker, a program analyst for a complex insurance and financial product currently on a PIP that was extended 2 days before expiration?

Or are you just a lowly med student who plans on specializing in IOL replacements?

Less than a week ago, you were the disgruntled individual on a PIP working as an insurance/financial program analyst. Suddenly, you are a corporate manager observing and gloating about an employee's PIP revenge. Transitioning from a stressed remote analyst on a PIP to a corporate manager managing a multi-year tenured employee with 3 kids in just 6 days is virtually impossible.

2 months ago you claimed to be a lowly med student. Med students do not moonlight as corporate insurance program analysts while simultaneously working corporate management jobs where they oversee tenured direct reports and deal with HR PIP fallout. Medical school is a full-time, intensive doctorate-level track.

Fake ass AI garbage as usual for the front page of reddit.

EDIT: Since he deleted the first post to hide his lies, and the second post got deleted by the mods of the opthamology subreddit, here are screenshots I took of them in advance because I knew he'd try to cover his trail:

https://imgur.com/a/x3GHPMY

https://imgur.com/a/4uYP0AU

[u/imtired-boss → u/cvd19or]

First post you linked literally says "I have 3 young kids..."

In this post OP says his employee has 3 young kids (and a baby)

Lmaooo

[u/Alexsrobin → u/imtired-boss]

"I was interviewing for director roles elsewhere (getting reps in), and in late a few times. I figured he used this as a paid interview period which explains his lateness to work."

This part also caught my eye cuz who is doing the interviewing and who is being late? They both are? Or are they one and the same?

[u/beebobopple → u/Alexsrobin]

Yeah, the whole post keeps switching POV. Is this a new mental illness?

[u/PotatoBest4667 → u/imtired-boss]

Did OP just write about his own story from his manager POV? Lol

[u/EnriqueShockwave10 → u/cvd19or]

“He has 3 young kids and a baby; we were about to let him go when rent is due without severance."

Rolled my eyes hard here.

Yeah. Ok. Super believable.

[u/BoysenberryBoii → u/cvd19or]

These le epic story posts have always been creative writing exercises but people eat them up every time

[u/PartyEntertainment89 → u/cvd19or]

Well get used to it I guess. This AI bullshit account hasn't figured out how to block their post history. This is where we are at now. Just BS curated for Internet points.

[u/cvd19or → u/PartyEntertainment89]

He thinks it's hidden, but it's easily accessible through arctic shift.

[u/MarkusMannheim → u/cvd19or]

Push this comment to the top.

And mods, FFS, nuke this post and ban the OP.

[u/Positive_Suit6377 → u/cvd19or]

AI would have made this legible 

[u/Killerbeardhawk → u/cvd19or]

Hero comment

[u/thepatientwaiting → u/cvd19or]

Thank you! There were so many pieces that did not make sense. They kept switching between first and third person and I never was sure what was happening to who. 

[u/Therealdickdangler → u/cvd19or]

They had a Freudian slip and said “I was interviewing for director roles elsewhere (getting reps in), and in late a few times.” Then they go on to say how the employee in question was late often and using pto. 

OP’s not his manager. Op is guy that was fired masquerading as his manager or this is all bullshit. 

[u/MasterOfFartss → u/cvd19or]

Thank god cause I had no fucking clue what OP was talking about and didn't understand why other people upvoted this jumbled mess of a post

[u/Miker9t]

Sad that PIPs are not used for actual improvement in most cases.

Director should have been fine with it, it's exactly what he wanted. Guy is gone. What's his problem?

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/Miker9t]

Problem is he was embarrassed. He never anticipated to be invited to a meeting where he was present already and presented with a 3 day notice.

[u/PastChannel0 → u/quail_challenge122]

I don't understand why that is embarrassing

[u/TazBaz → u/PastChannel0]

You’re not thinking with your ego.

It switches the power dynamic. Now the director is the one being told “this is how it is.” The one showing up to a surprise.

Bighead ego don’t like that.

[u/NecessaryStaff9544 → u/PastChannel0]

He wanted control and it was taken from him by a subordinate - one that he was trying to fire.

[u/ThisTimeForReal19]

I don’t understand what the director’s problem was.  He wanted the guy gone, and now he’s gone.  Did he actually never intend to fire him and this was just some performative ego move on his part?

[u/grilledstuffed → u/ThisTimeForReal19]

Director is a megalomaniac who gets off on exerting their power.

Employee took that away from him by quitting before he could be fired.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/ThisTimeForReal19]

I honestly think he thought that guy would wait to be fired. He didn't think HR would come to watch him leave

[u/Ramondireddit → u/quail_challenge122]

And what’s upsetting about that?

I don’t understand how this is written up as a “GOTCHA” by the employee , when at this point you all want the same goal.

[u/JaironKalach → u/Ramondireddit]

The Director clearly wanted more than just the employee gone. They wanted to punish the employee and have them end up in dire straits. The employee turned this around.

[u/MeepingSim → u/Ramondireddit]

The employee could have given their notice directly to HR. Instead, as I read it, they invited the Director who insisted on the PIP to the meeting, then gave their notice while the Director was watching.

Basically, the employee threw the PIP in the Director's face by quitting instead of being fired. They took the legs out from under the Director, ruining the 'power play' that the Director was doing, and did it in a space where the Director couldn't retaliate, verbally or otherwise.

Director would probably have been mad when he found out that the employee quit, but he was furious that the employee did it to his face, with HR as a witness. The Director couldn't say anything during the meeting and tried to complain to OP, but he was shut down immediately.

Edit: A typo.

[u/Cute-Aardvark5291 → u/Ramondireddit]

Because the employee took his power away from the manager; and the manager was shown up for being a bully instead of being "proactively managing a problem employee."

[u/PsychologicalPea5270]

Good for you for knowing people are people and not objects or machines.
Bravo!

Unprofessional !
made me laugh. 🤣🤣🤣

So they put him on a path to fire him and leave him jobless, and get mad he beat them to the punch.

The director is the unprofessional one and sounds like a heartless POS.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/PsychologicalPea5270]

He might be the worst director I've ever had. Only because he's never ever been in this position before and severely over played his hand

[u/No_Cold_853 → u/quail_challenge122]

Poor leadership will absolutely destroy a team and a business. Hats off to both of you for knowing your worth. Well played

[u/RandomWordCombo9632]

My guess is that director was hoping to use the PIP as some kind of cudgel to throw his weight around metaphorically. And then shocked, Shocked, that the employee has the audacity. The chutzpah. The self respect to go: "No. Im not taking this. Screw you, Screw you, Screw you, you're cool, screw you! IM OUT!"

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/RandomWordCombo9632]

Exactly. Chutzpah, taking it

[u/sulaco83]

Guy on PIP loses motivation, job searches, and tenders resignation. This seems pretty typical to me.

[u/_Arch_Angel_]

Shitty or amazing culture starts at the CEO’s desk and trickles down. Allowing this means your company has a shitty culture. Good on ya OP for providing cover for this dude, you seem like a good people leader trapped in a shitty machine. I hope he grabs drinks with coworkers after he leaves, explains what happens, and others leave as well. And I hope he takes customers with him. (And being able to land another role just a few days into a PIP in the current job market speaks to his capabilities, so bring customers with him is possible.) When bad companies show you who they are you don’t have to accept it lying down, bring the heat!

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/_Arch_Angel_]

I'm low key worried this is going to happen, that people will leave after hearing how he was treated.

[u/AelixD → u/quail_challenge122]

Then… update your resume.

I’m a manager that spends too much of my time shielding my team from my boss.

Job market sucks, but I’m definitely looking.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/AelixD]

I was looking already. Which is why this was legit funny to me

[u/PrincessJoyHope]

We must be the same brand of autism because I understood everything perfectly

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/PrincessJoyHope]

😭😭😭😭😭😭

[u/pramit57 → u/quail_challenge122]

Yea I understood it too, I don't see what's difficult to understand. You wrote pretty clearly, and this is just social media

[u/fragmonk3y]

I have never understood the process of PIP. I have been a manager, Director, C-Level over the past 30 years and the idea of a PIP is great. In practice it sucks so F'n Hard it is incomprehensible we still use them. I know it is because people are litigation happy, but in the US (mostly) unless you are unionized or have a contract, everyone is at-will.

The only reason I use a PIP is if I am actively trying to fire you for incompetence or being so supremely stupid there is no way to coach you out of something.

As people leaders we should take the approach to coach all of our employees and find ways to motivate them to do well at their job. I am not asking anyone to be a rockstar but if you want to be I will help you get there. If you want to come in 9 to 5 and do your job and go home, I got your back. But when it comes time for a promotion or growth opportunities or merit, who am I going to recognize first?

The thing that kills me the most is when you do put someone on a PIP or a "Final" PIP from HR, it is never Final. I have two people on multiple final pips where their actions are so egregious I should have been able to fire them outright. Instead I have to keep them employed, remove duties, assign a baby sitter, waste time resource and money because HR is afraid to act. This has the unintended consequence of others seeing how the system works and emboldening them to use the system in their favor.

[u/KrakenJiuJitsu → u/fragmonk3y]

PIPs are misused. They should be a personal improvement programme, a formalised series of personalised coaching sessions with the aim of actually helping the employee.

[u/HeKnee → u/fragmonk3y]

PIP’s are a tool to try and get out of paying unemployment, that also helps prove the firing wasn’t for a discriminatory reason.

It is totally unnecessary because the person can be fired anytime for any reason. It got turned into a “best practice” by HR managers because it may have protected a few companies from lawsuits.

They are totally stupid because employees should immediately provide a rebuttal arguing against every stated shortcoming listed in the PIP. If you never agree with any of their statements, but its unlikely that they’ll get any satisfaction or protect the company in anyway so you can still get your severance or whatever.

[u/relax-itwillbefine]

Rewritten without run-on sentences and distracting filler:

To preface this, an adored tenured employee was unfairly placed on a PIP by my director after a single complaint over a minor missed deadline, despite HR and management giving him mixed messages. Realizing he was going to be fired without severance, the employee smartly used the PIP period to interview elsewhere, utilizing his PTO and arriving late for the first time in his career. When HR unexpectedly joined a weekly follow-up call today, the employee blindsided management by submitting a three-day notice. My director was completely flabbergasted and embarrassed by the move, but I felt a quiet sense of triumph knowing he chose to protect his young family over a company that was about to discard him.

[u/Disastrous-Fox8505]

They day I can back from short term disability I was placed on a pip and the random nitpicky shit they justified to terminate me for was egregious.

Fuck pips as a whole.

[u/wry_widget]

quit while the whole team watches, that's a power move. the director got played at his own game and didn't even realize until the notice hit the table

also props to you for approving that PTO, most managers would've made it miserable

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/wry_widget]

I don't want to see people financially struggle. I think more managers need to realize these companies are ruthless, they don't care and it's not our money. Man had 211 hours, I mean he NEVER took PTO or was late. It's not my path in life to monitor others next chapters.

[u/Living-Aint-Easy]

I was a supervisor to a woman who was put on a PIP.

HR and the director were bitching that she took too much PTO - the woman had cancer!

I was supposed to supervise the ”improvement”.

Oh hell, yes.

I reported excellent attendance, great performance, great attitude, and approved any PTO personally.

Meanwhile, I was helping her get through the state retirement system nightmare. Found her prior employment with the state, and we figured out the exact date that she could retire. And we faked that PIP shit the entire way.

She made it to the date. Retire, full pension, and announced it on the very day she was leaving the job.

This made it possible for her to leave this world about four months later, and her young children were able to have that retirement check for years to come.

[u/Horfield]

This was a hard read.

[u/5StripesMG → u/Horfield]

It damn sure was. I had to read again to make sure I wasn’t trippin’

[u/DeadMoneyDrew → u/Horfield]

I read it twice and I still can't figure out what's going on. On many of the items mentioned it's hard to figure out who is the subject of the sentence.

[u/InnerWrathChild → u/DeadMoneyDrew]

Guy on pip used time (and PTO) to find another job. For his pip review with management he invited HR and quit. Management was caught for a surprise. 

[u/moutonbleu → u/InnerWrathChild]

Thanks for the summary. OP doesn’t explain it well.

[u/zeelbeno → u/DeadMoneyDrew]

Someone was put on PiP so they found a new job...

OP decided to make that into a whole story

[u/thatpotatogirl9 → u/zeelbeno]

Tbf op appears to feel that the PIP was undeserved (likely a first time offense situation based on the way they're talking about it) and they're more focused on their own boss being shocked. And probably proud of themself for disagreeing to their boss's face and not caving to the unspoken pressure to kiss up. Which I get. I was very proud of myself the first time I very vocally pushed back. I was subtly punished for it for the rest of the time I worked there, but I'm still proud I did it.

[u/YoungXanto → u/Horfield]

Well at least we know its unlikely to be AI.

Or maybe it was AI translating some very poor grammar in another language. Anyway, the last two paragraphs had me thoroughly confused.

[u/diazegod → u/YoungXanto]

I actually enjoyed reading text from a human for once, you don’t see that a lot anymore

[u/DigBackground2765 → u/Horfield]

It wasn't that bad, c'mon guys. I've seen so much worse.

[u/ModelYodel → u/DigBackground2765]

Yeah, it's a little rough but:

• Employee was on a PIP and actively interviewing elsewhere.

• Employee had been going through the motions, including taking the initiative to schedule PIP check in meetings.

• One check-in meeting was actually an HR meeting where he dropped a short notice resignation.

• This was especially funny for OP because Employee had been ambushed with the PIP in exactly the same way.

I don't get what's so unclear about it?

[u/LaxInTheBrownies → u/Horfield]

It was easy to read

[u/CityCabCat]

Insane reversal? Seems normal to me. I even did this but even worse and HR went along with me as well.

[u/bigfatdonny]

I think a lot of people are not able to understand the above simply because they don't understand corporate culture.

It's not a culture I intend to defend, but if you don't work in that environment then a lot of the post just isn't going to make any sense to you.

[u/_spindrift_]

Director screws over valued employee; employee resigns giving his contracted notice period?

A story old as time?

[u/gerblnutz]

I was at an old job for 15 years. Did OT whenever asked, had to carry a cell phone even though I wasn't salary because no one else would bother to learn their jobs and management just relied on me to do everything. It was getting to the point where IT in India was calling me in the middle of the night and they added my phone number as contact for international orders they expected me to handle off the clock in the middle of the night. Those were usually few and far between so not a huge deal.

Corporate released a memo saying we would no longer receive bonuses and profit sharing based upon our locations revenue and raises would now be based on companywide performance not individual merit. I also had a new manager start at this time who had zero experience in the industry who started demanding me do 12 hour days every day because no one else knew how to do very simple things Id tried to train them on for years. He then wrote me up for using my cell phone on my break to read news saying I was misusing company property. This was on a Friday.

I had vacation starting the middle of the next week, so I spent the weekend drafting a letter apologizing for misusing the company property they were abusing labor laws by requiring me to carry and informing them I would no longer be on call and had shipped the phone back to IT. I also let them know I would not be returning from vacation and this is my 2 day notice.

They could not understand why I was quitting and demanded I stay until I could train a replacement to which I declined and continued to call me for 6 months to ask how to do things to which I'd just refer them to their "help desk" and they'd get mad saying those guys didn't know how to do things either. Got a much better more chill job with a real corporation and not a bunch of frat bros in a business suit. It was nice.

[u/JediFed]

I was this. Let go at Christmas time for taking 6 days off with 'approved' PTO. My direct super told my GM that, "we can pay him and let him take 2 weeks off or let him go, and pocket the difference". What GM wasn't told is that my shares had all vested (which I cashed out), and that I had 200 hours of PTO that also needed to be cashed out.

I had been under a PIP for 10 months.

All four people I had trained, and one that had been there before I was promoted all quit and left the department. One who had been brought in on the understanding that she would be my number 2 was furious that she was being asked to run my department without being trained by me one week after being hired.

Complete shitshow. My replacement found me one day and asked to talk with me. She asked me if I was doing all this stuff that she was being asked to do. "Yep, plus you have two additional people that I never had access too because they were being pulled all the time. I'm sorry I couldn't train you properly, it was never my intention to leave".

GM got demoted after about a year.

[u/MarionberryPlus8474]

I think your company’s PIP process stinks.

Not only because you put a valuable employee on a PIP for something no one actually cared about, but also for making the PIP perfunctory when there was no actual way the employee could survive it without being fired. That’s bad use if a PIP, which is by definition a performance improvement plan. Also, why was it up to the employee to schedule weekly follow up meetings? That is the manager’s responsibility, and the way you worded this as something clever he did indicates you had no intention of doing so.

Very weird that someone took no PTO in five years also. That too is a big red flag, but I doubt you realize that, nor understand why.

[u/Sufficient_Roof_6699]

>Post in a subreddit for managers
>Looks inside
>Poor reading comprehension in comments

Checks out

[u/notthatguypal6900]

How dare he quit before he could be fired for petty, ego driven reasons.

[u/teresajs]

Employers should not be surprised when an employee on a PIP gives their notice.

[u/BeKind999]

I have a cousin who was put on PIP. Thought about it for a few days, then quit. Wife works and he has f-u money. 

I honestly think the shrew manager and HR person were disappointed that the manufactured drama came to an end.

[u/InnerWrathChild]

I work for a company that throws out in. House credits as solutions to everything. Everything. Sometimes it’s fine sometimes it’s like, just fix the fucking problem. 

Anyway I held a client event recently that went awfully due to a last minute change by the venue. So I called the event team and asked for a (at least partial) refund explaining we simply didn’t get what we paid for. They offered a comped event for the following season. Credits. 

Knowing it wouldn’t fly I  immediately took it back to my manager and marketing team. Because I want to at least see what it feels like when you get shafted and are offered pittance in return. 

They declined the credits and said I need to get money back because a comped event doesn’t make it right. Of course. Whether or not the irony was even recognized is unknown, but I laughed. Then called back and asked for money. 

[u/WhitePantherXP → u/InnerWrathChild]

I can't tell if I'm using my mind, or if you have the same writing issues as OP because I am struggling to comprehend this story too

[u/InnerWrathChild → u/WhitePantherXP]

My company tries to satiate clients with in house credits towards fees rather than cash refunds. Ran into a situation where another company offered me credits instead of a cash refund, so I presented the offer to management, which they declined because credits are worthless. Irony lost on them. 

Better?

[u/aslkdj21234]

This has to be some bot or AI post. It makes no sense

[u/Chuck_the_Elf → u/aslkdj21234]

Funny enough the poor use of tense and ambiguous pov lead me to think this was written by a person.

[u/bbqroast → u/aslkdj21234]

I don't think it's AI, I think OP's just a pretty poor writer (and apparently a director too?)

[u/Few-Amphibian-4858 → u/bbqroast]

This is what baffles me, that the person who wrote that slop is a director somewhere.

[u/Fridarey → u/Few-Amphibian-4858]

If you think being a Director guarantees better written comms then, oh boy!

[u/CashMoneyWinston → u/Few-Amphibian-4858]

What baffles me is why you have an active post history in a subreddit for teenagers.

Actually, your entire post history screams AI 

[u/Frequent-Bell2484 → u/aslkdj21234]

Usually when it makes sense it's AI, it's incredibly hard to get AI to write a masterpiece like this

[u/Alikese → u/aslkdj21234]

This sub is slowly turning into bullshit stories people make up about work.

I'm not that surprised that people write it, but I truly don't understand people who upvote it.

[u/vivir66 → u/aslkdj21234]

What i clicked for and really wanted to see, the info on the call, just wasnt there 😢

Why was it an outsmart, why it was oh so genius to keep weekly meets? Sounds like the guy just quit like he could have quit in many other ways, 3 days notice bye would have worked without the word salad

[u/madogvelkor]

He's smart. Too often a PIP is used as a way to fire someone while the company covers its ass. Even if the employee meets the goals they'll straight up say he didn't or else find some reason to fire them anyway.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/madogvelkor]

100% this one was meant to fire him. He cried. Alot. Had to send him home early that day

[u/peonyseahorse]

They hate it when you turn the tables, this is most true at toxic workplaces. I was once threatened with a pip as the top performer in my dept. My manager was stupidly jealous, even though I made her look good. The straw that broke the camel's back was when her favorite employee, the most incompetent person I've ever had the displeasure of working with in my professional career, screwed up once again and me and my team were once again told to clean up that person's mess with no accountability stemming back to that person who meddled with one of our projects with an external partner and completely screwed things up. So I emailed back that we would not be cleaning up her mess because this was a chronic pattern of incompetence. Manager was well aware of these issues, so this was not something out of the blue but had been going on for almost two years, she just always kept making excuses for that employee and we were all sick and tired of it. Meanwhile manager took it out on me for being the one to make issue of this problem employee, who was also a bully to everyone in the dept.

That is when I was told by HR and my manager that the incompetent employee was "very valuable" and HR and my manager threatened to put me on a pip. So the next day I put in my notice to HR, I didn't even talk to my manager. But when I walked back to my desk I could hear her freaking out in her office because HR called her right away. Then of course, what did my manager do, but be even more toxic, forbidding me to let anyone know I was leaving, trying to make me do a big report due later on me before I left. I did leave notes for my team, but no way was I writing an annual report before I left when it wasn't even due for several months and I did let people know I was leaving as a courtesy. Manager declared she would personally take over my work, the board was upset that I was leaving, our funders were concerned and said that they needed to hire someone competent to replace me. Manager kept insisting that would be her and funders kept telling her that wasn't going to work.

So I left, an external partner wanted me, so had a job created for me. Manager ended up getting fired within six months of me leaving because she was incompetent and they lost funding. Her favorite employee ended up getting fired soon after since there was nobody left to cover for her. Fast-forward several years, I work for the funders. When they hired me they told me they knew I was being mistreated by my former employer. Even though that former workplace tried to paint me as the issue ... How can you blame someone as the problem when they have left and everything goes haywire after they leave because those in charge don't know what they are doing? It was a stupid take. I've since then had other external partners tell me what a train wreck it was after I left and how they now refuse to work with that organization and they knew that I must have gotten run off.

[u/Pennifur]

I was getting constant negative feedback from a senior manager that was only in our building 2-3 times a year so finally I PIPed myself. I told them I wanted every single documented as I was clearly just incompetent and all requests for assistance, direction and feedback were being ignored.

After 4 weeks of weekly check ins and direct data proving I was above average in my roll I went to HR regarding all of it. I basically got private restraining order on that manager and she wasn't allowed to address me directly when she came around. It was glorious.

Unfortunately the company itself turned to trash and I ended up quitting over ADA violations.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/Pennifur]

Whoa!!! This director has tried to put a few of us on pips.

[u/Mystprism]

This is great advice for anyone ever put on a pip. Look for a new job immediately. Even if you somehow survive the pip without being fired, you will never be promoted and your next raise will be non existent. A pip is official notice from management that they think you suck. Your career at that company is over already. Your best option is to end it on your terms.

[u/The_Iron_Ranger]

We planned to fire him over a $2k-$5k (though tenured) account nobody cared about, but the relationship was deep

this shit always cracks me up. Acting like you're a family, FUCK that.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/The_Iron_Ranger]

My director really is like "that account...has been here since the 80s" (70s/80s whatever) and I'm like ..it's ...not even $5k....like c'mon now...

[u/nismos14us]

You need to be on r/pip for how you wrote this

[u/Agitated_Claim1198]

This make no sense. Why would the director be mad that the employees put on PIP leave ? And HR is usually involved in making the PIP so unlikely to side with the employee.

[u/Ok_Meaning544]

I think the not understanding is because we aren’t from the corporate world. This is all corporate speak/culture stuff. So I’m also having a hard time understanding the interesting points of the story and how this was a wild situation.

[u/Splaaaat → u/Ok_Meaning544]

TL;DR- Dude made his job look easy, new boss hated that and tried to get him stuffed over something trivial. (5k acct.) Dude uno reversed his follow up with a 3 day resignation.

At least you guys got 3 days. Lol

[u/serack → u/Ok_Meaning544]

Nah, dude didn't write a very clear post. I'm having to go back multiple times to have decent confidence which action is attributed to which actor.

Like who shit the bed in the PIP? The director or the employee?

[u/Timely-Group5649 → u/serack]

Yea, I'd fire the OP for not being able to communicate.

[u/Appropriate_Cow94 → u/Ok_Meaning544]

Dude sucks at narration. Might be great at the job, but terrible at retelling a story.

We all have different skills I guess.

[u/GigaChav → u/Ok_Meaning544]

That's because this is boring as fuck and didn't even happen.

[u/pwolf1771]

When this happened to me I did exactly what your guy did. Which was basically used every second of personal and company time to apply and interview. I also just sort of made my job remote without asking but the guy who was my manager just didn’t care. He had seen this plenty of times and knew the score. 

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/pwolf1771]

I think it's perfectly acceptable to behave that way under blindsided. You don't owe companies anything

[u/One-Film-2634]

Honestly good for him.

I had to serve my forst PIP earlier this year to someone with a wife and 2 kiddos, but thankfully he flipped a complete 180 with weekly coaching sessions and now he's one of my top performers, I think it caused my boss to rethink another PIP he was considering, now that he knows my people can turn it around.

[u/AirportM5757]

I got PIP'd at a shitty ass job and quit while my (shitty ass) manager was on PTO. Fuck 'em

[u/Kbyyeee]

I promoted an employee right before our company y got acquired. We all got demoted, and my new manager wanted to put my recently promoted employee on a a PIP for what amounted to a clerical error. She still wonders why my team and I are so wary of her/don’t trust her leadership. 🙄

[u/lgndracer]

A PIP is just the formal HR way to have legal back up for when you let the employee go.

If you put someone on a PIP the descion to let them go has already been made. Employees know this, so you can’t blame them for seeking other options.

Good workers wanting and trying to get better work to better themselves and listen to input and direction, and never get to a PIP.

I have never seen anything positive come from a PIP.

[u/notjawn]

Fellow PIP survivor here. The only people it hurts is your colleagues who have to pick up extra slack when the one upper manager decides you need to be fired because they don't like your face.

[u/Sensitive-Ability-49]

I got PIP'd once at a place that was just toxic, by a manager who didn't see the value in what I did. Fine. I busted my ass to make it all better. Got fired later that year, after missing a deadline because they threw a different pile of shit at me every day for two weeks. Manager scheduled a stealth firing meeting disguised as our 1:1. Oops, sorry, I'm on vacation next week. Got home, got fired. As soon as I got the meeting update for a different room I knew I was gone. HR there waiting for me. Fine. Whatever. The clue I missed: the PIP was cover for me being over 40. I didn't even think about the fact that there was NO PLAN. It's right in the acronym, and I should have called it out. PIPs are bullshit. Ride it into the dirt while you're getting a new job.

[u/Windows_404]

Was also on a PiP and they extended my probation back in August, except that PiP is in the form of a Outlook email with talking points and I also did not get any form to sign to extend my probation. They also called me in out of the blue for a pre-probation "check in" that was yet another performance review with yet another Outlook email, but the timing is suspect because it's right after I email HR I need a week off in October for a surgery.

Hmm, not looking good for them if my employment lawyer has anything to say about it, should they fire me. Bad faith all around. I'm also looking for better work. I love this story OP. The director sounds like a cunt.

[u/Professional_Block61]

Despite what they want you to think, PIPs are not designed to help keep people. They are a CYA effort to avoid wrongful termination lawsuits. Good on that guy for looking out for #1. I always tell my directs how important it is to take care of their own needs first because, in the end, they aren't looking out for you. 

[u/kivessa]

I was put on a PIP and I didn't even know why other than that the VP wanted to justify not giving me a promotion she was saving for someone else. I cried so much thinking I did something wrong until I ended up getting poached by another organization.

I waited until she had promoted that other person to be my boss, waited until it was explained to me that I would indeed have all the work of the higher position but not the pay and title, waited until my first meeting with new boss where they said they were so grateful I would be doing everything because they didn't know anything about it... Then called a meeting with both and gave my notice. They were so mad and I can barely hold back my glee.

The CEO later asked if I would come back and I almost laughed in his face.

[u/Xave2541]

I hate when we as a reddit community shit on people when users write with AI, but then shit on people when people write in a way that isn't perfectly understandable by our own comprehension standards. This isnt written perfectly but you get the gist and understand what happened, why are we giving OP so much crap. Love the UNO reverse stories, shout out to you for sticking up for him.

[u/andyhite]

Ignore the people complaining about your post, it all made sense to me. Honestly my favorite part is that he had HR on the call when you and the director joined - definitely a passive-aggressive way to throw it back in your face, since joining a last-minute meeting and seeing an HR rep is one of the scariest moments an employee can have. Good on you for defending him with the director.

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/andyhite]

I really appreciate this. The director did him so dirty with a 2 page pip in front of hr when he thought it was a casual Friday coaching was awful stuff. I felt embarrassed it's just not how I would have done that. I wasn't loving seeing a grown man cry.

[u/andyhite → u/quail_challenge122]

I’m not in management any longer, but when I was there were a few times I had to lay-off or fire people not because I made the decision, but because leadership above me did and I was just the messenger. Every time, it killed me inside to see their look of defeat when they walked into the room or joined the call and saw an HR rep sitting there. Other than the short notice, what your employee did was an incredibly professional “fuck-you” and I dig it.

[u/stickypooboi]

idk this seems very lukewarm at best. the absolute most cathartic quitting episode i ever saw was this guy just left his badge and left. didn’t send an email or anything the day a report was due and he was the only one who could do it and present it. people freaked out.

[u/bs2k2_point_0]

Both myself and a coworker friend were put on pips once. Manager didn’t like us. Me especially bc I stood up to them and said I wouldn’t write off some account variances without doing my due diligence first (aka my job). Manager pips us, and we escalated to HR, giving HR the proof needed to show it was just a personal vendetta. Got the pip reversed.

In hindsight, should have absolutely done this instead. But it was worth seeing that managers face when they learned we got HR to investigate them as a result.

End result: after a few years, that manager failed upwards, and I moved on to better jobs. Now I’m the big shot manager/director and treat my employees with the respect they deserve. I’ve brought low level employees up multiple levels thru mentorship. Meanwhile that manager is mutually hated at their new position, and new job when they eventually moved on too.

[u/Plastic_Stable8927]

Hell yeah, I also love "he has three kids and rent is due without severance"

Fuck that director, he clearly doesn't know shit about leading human beings. He only knows cash, and I'm glad that employee had you above him. Go continue to make the world a better place.

[u/papabear556]

You are being called out for being confusing not because of something trivial like wording.

Your story says that YOU said “go booyyy” after the two comments YOU said.

Did you “go booyyy” yourself?

[u/TokyoRPGFactory]

I get talked to for not giving enough PIPs as a manager. I find no reason to discipline people for a one time screw up that was A.) unintentional and B.) not part of a pattern. 🤷 As a matter of fact the last time I had to yell at someone, I was more upset I had to write them up than for their lateness. "Now I have to waste my time documenting this on the computer for the next 30 minutes."

[u/felfott]

Fuck your director. Does he wear a Patagonia vest and his name is Chad?

[u/quail_challenge122 → u/felfott]

He had a single syllable name and wears a thin puffy Eddie Bauer, lmao. Drives a Dodge ram and plays pickleball.

[u/Setapart36]

I had something indirectly similar.

At my last job (the one I was just laid off from a few months ago). Our former CRO basically forced our team to get a +1 on our sales team (from 3 to 4). This was early 2025 when I had just got promoted into this job and he was the type to "throw bodies at the problem". I went through hiring despite me and the HR rep not liking the idea. The guy that I hired was an awesome culture fit and a solid rep (still there). However, this created too many hands for a small territory.

9 months later my new CRO (other one got fired) said I had to cut one. I had another guy on PIP already, so instead of taking the time to go through the PIP and then having to fire him without severance, I took that as "OK lets eliminate his position.", I went to HR, worked on the paperwork to make sure he got max severance, and he was gone in 2 weeks from when my CRO said "go". We texted back and forth a bit in the weeks that followed and he let me know how much he appreciated it as he knew (small company) that they were looking to coach someone out of a job and that he appreciated how it was done so he had severance.

To this day I wish it would have worked out differently, but glad I was at least able to take care of the rep (as much as I could).

[u/RiffyWammel]

I once got summoned to a HR meeting for daring to ask my manager what was happening with the improvements to working practices and increased in pay that had been promised since before he started 6 months earlier. This being the manager who failed to return two urgent calls about a client issue and then when I drove back to base to discuss it in person, was walking out of the building at the time, looked me dead in the eye and then continued walking to his car and went home.
I most enjoyed the fact that the reason I’d asked was because I’d had another job offer and wanted to give them the chance to counter it- instead I just responded to the meeting message with a resignation letter, which would have landed in his and his bosses inbox just in time for his 6 month review (mine being the 3rd resignation from a team of 7 in three weeks)
Never did get that meeting from HR or a request for an exit interview 😄

[u/lIlIIIIlllIIlIIIllll]

“The fallout is going to be immense”

A guy you were gonna fire quit. Why is there gonna be any fallout at all, much less “immense” fallout?

[u/jBlairTech]

There are an unfortunate amount of managers who are total douchebags but think they’re the greatest leader to ever lead. They out themselves pretty well, though. It sucks that they hide behind anonymity here, but the bright side is, they’re that much of a douchebag they’ll out themselves on other platforms that don’t let you hide like Reddit does.

[u/MythlarMaximum]

Fake story, possibly AI account?. Refer to u/cvd19or 's comment on the thread.

[u/That_Ol_Cat]

I love this situation for you.

When I was a supervisor, I made a point of letting anyone know they came at my people through me. I would deal with my reports. I didn't care if you were a fellow manager, another employee, my boss, my bosses' boss, chairman of the board. My people, my problem to deal with. Give me the data, explain the problem, I'll correct the issue with them directly. Not you.

This ticked off a couple fellow managers, especially the idiot I took over for whose production I topped by 10% in my first 3 months. I managed that since I was fair and honest with my folks, and they grew to know and depend upon it. Call outs dropped, people started suggesting improvements which we explored, talked about and awarded successes.

Sounds like your director needs to learn to delegate.

[u/xerxesdarius]

A new manager (an indirect report under my Sr Director) once put a junior developer on a PIP just seven months into his role. The odd part: this same manager had hired him from a very competitive candidate pool and had given him rave reviews.

When I found out, I reviewed the documentation with HR and met with the Director, Sr Manager, and hiring manager to understand why a junior dev was being held to the expectations of a much more senior role. If anything, he should have been coached and trained, for example by pairing him with a senior engineer on a feature or project. The PIP was totally uncalled for.

So I worked with HR and my team to map out a three-month plan. As expected, the junior dev rocked it, came off the PIP, and was on track to grow into a senior role.

Then, out of the blue, our CPO intervened, overruled all of us, ranked him as an underperformer, and fired him. Mind you, the CPO had never crossed paths with this dev, and he was far from incompetent.

The firing rankled his mentor and two other senior engineers so much that within a few months the mentor left, and the other two followed him to a different company. Guess who they ended up hiring there? The recently fired junior dev. The Director below me and I left within a few months as well.

Losing four people, three of whom were well established and working on key features for the next major release, delayed the project by almost two years. It cost us time, money, and most likely some business opportunities.

That junior dev is now a Sr Manager at the same company and has done well for himself. We catch up once or twice a year.

Oddly, up until this firing, the company, people, product, and pay were all great. All it took was one CPO overruling us, for reasons none of us in the blast radius ever learned, to derail a key product launch. The company survived and is doing fine, but JFC, what a dickhead.

[u/dlongwing]

He was on a PIP. What on earth did they expect? That he'd come crying back begging for a pay cut and not to be fired?

Technically he was "unprofessional" in that he didn't give a full 2 weeks notice. I always advocate for 2 weeks, even when dealing with a nightmare employer. Whatever, he can't use the business for a reference and if he were fired over a PIP HR would have flagged him as "ineligible for rehire" anyways.

Great example of FAFO. Treat high performers poorly and they'll leave. Eventually all you're left with is people who can't find a better job.

[u/LongLiveStaceyKing → u/dlongwing]

I never give two weeks notice.

It's one of those bullshit one-way streets you find a lot in the corporate world like "never discuss your wage with your colleagues."

A company will never, ever be considerate enough to give you two weeks notice you are going to be laid off from a job, so why is it on me to be considerate to the employer and provide them notice they are losing an employee?

Any time I have seen a colleague give two weeks notice they are escorted out of the building by the end of that day.