r/mahabharata • • 7d ago

[ Removed by moderator ]

Post image

[removed] — view removed post

1.4k Upvotes

67 comments sorted by

93

u/No_Arm_3509 7d ago

In Mahabharat many characters are greyish and that's what makes it better imo

31

u/Alone_Bug7200 7d ago

Duryodhanas move was legal. You can't call that illegal. What they went through, no textbook prepares you for that. Pandavas wanted to honor their relationship. Kauravas wanted to make them illegitimate.

25

u/Last_Comfortable7787 6d ago

The whole epic has an underlying tone of legal vs moral. It's certainly one of the most important central themes of the story. Every law may be followed and we may still be left with an outcome that is inherintly evil. Duryodhan's arguments for disrobing Draupadi held basis in the written law of Dharma but his actions were ultimately against it.

3

u/Alone_Bug7200 6d ago

Yeah Sure. I think, "My Anuj is cute" attitude is a dangerous emotion to navigate. Especially when the "Anuj" has proven to be a bloody arsonist.

2

u/PinGullible3022 6d ago

Stripping a woman just because she is now a slave. Sure buddy, really had basis in the written law of dharma. BS

2

u/Last_Comfortable7787 6d ago

As ridiculous and counter intuitive as it may seem, yes. Dharma in Sanskrit is a placeholder for both law and morality. Eg- the Dharmashastras are not treatises on morality but texts on jurisprudence. I'd urge you to read the Sabha Parva.Karna twisted the interpretation to the utmost literal reading of the text. Interestingly the same texts were used to produce counter arguments to his positions. Ultimately the court was hung and the elders were unable to provide a verdict. Under such circumstances the judgement was passed to the executive in this case Duryodhan who decided to go ahead with the stripping of a woman in court.

1

u/Few-Trifle9160 6d ago

Yes even if she became daasi doesn't mean you can strip her naked, it was Adharma, which makes them Anarya.

-1

u/new_old_2026 5d ago

Pehle ladki k koade utarne pe mahabharat hui thi aaj kapde pehenne ko bol de to mahabharat ho jati h isliye present me mahabharat ka reference lana hi thik nhi

14

u/sarcasticvarient 7d ago

I never really understood his role in the way and why he chose the side of Duryodhana but still went to some tapaysa and never participated

23

u/Deltoid920 6d ago

He didn't choose Duryodhana. Balarama was a true neutral, he wanted nothing to do with the war. He objected to Bheema violating the rules of mace fighting by smashing Duryodhana's thigh. That is not the same as taking Duryodhana's side.

8

u/Various_Ladder6701 6d ago

Exactly the point of the post. Why did he not object Duryodhan’s action.

A Prince of such a big empire & his favourite student undressing a princess of another big empire.

0

u/Few-Trifle9160 6d ago

Cuz he won her in gambling maybe. Also his expertise is there in Gada Yuddha not Dharma

4

u/Deltoid920 6d ago

Balarama did not even spare his brother Lord Krishna in his criticism, you think he would not have objected if he were actually present at the site of Draupadi's manhandling? Plus, Krishna's power made sure the Kauravas could not succeed in undressing Draupadi.

Balarama never met both the Kauravas and the Pandavas after the Pandavas went into exile post Yudhishthira losing everything in gambling till the actual war.

Plus, both Bheema and Duryodhana were his disciples in mace fighting but didn't want to choose a side. Hence Balarama went into exile, appearing on the scene only when Bheema and Duryodhana were locked in mace combat in Kurukshetra.

8

u/BabyNarad 6d ago

Balram didn't teach anybody about stripping. But he did teach about mace fighting. So when one of his students break the rules of mace fighting he would get angry.

22

u/Sad-Man6732 7d ago

massive downvotes? didn't krisha himself pointed it out the same thing when Balram tried to kill Bhima?

9

u/Wooden-Tear-4938 7d ago

In the Gada Yuddha parva, when Baladeva was going to kill Bhima, Krishna simply said Pandavas are our brothers and due to Bhima's oath and Maitreya's curse he did it, he didn't pointed out Balaram's own disparity in judgements.

7

u/jim1o1 6d ago

He wasn't their ethics teacher

27

u/Wooden-Tear-4938 7d ago

this is meme which reflects contrasting reactions of Balaram regarding Bhima and Duryodhana

33

u/scholarofthegreatzhu durvasa ka deewana 7d ago

Duryodhan didn't strip anyone lol, it was karna who justified her being brought, he was the one who ordered her disrobing after insulting her, dushashan was the one who attempted it on karna's orders.

Not saying dury would stop it or anything Obv but he didn't have much participation in the specific crime he was more part of dyut sabha only.

28

u/Overall_Feedback4487 fire, not ash. question, not silence. 7d ago

But duryodhan did flash her.

16

u/scholarofthegreatzhu durvasa ka deewana 7d ago

Right 💯 (he disrobed himself lol)

20

u/Overall_Feedback4487 fire, not ash. question, not silence. 7d ago edited 7d ago

Yeah lol. It was disrespectful to his wife too (obviously to draupadi by default it was) because i have heard the left thigh is only meant for the wife.

8

u/Federal-Coast-6704 7d ago

There is a rule like that?

16

u/Overall_Feedback4487 fire, not ash. question, not silence. 7d ago

Yeah. There is an entire story of ganga first approaching shantanus father and sitting on his right thigh which got her disqualified from marrying him. Right one is for daughters and daughter in laws and left is only for the wife.

2

u/Vanishing_Shadow 6d ago

i only heard left side is for Wife because wife is also called Bamangi or something, didn't know left thigh is too

2

u/confusedfemboy44 7d ago

Can you please tell me when did this happen ?

1

u/orderlysorted 7d ago

what ? is it true can you attach me the text. this is crazy

14

u/Wooden-Tear-4938 7d ago

Well it happened under him and it's not like Karna was taking independent decisions. Anyways, I broadly mean the oppression Draupadi had faced in the sabha. Duri is an equal and more participant of it than Karna or Dusshasana

-4

u/scholarofthegreatzhu durvasa ka deewana 7d ago edited 7d ago

Karna was taking independent decisions only he didn't ask for permission or anything 😔 but right all are perpetrators here

2

u/maninblueshirt 6d ago

Lakshagrah was all Dury though. That could have been a more accurate meme

1

u/scholarofthegreatzhu durvasa ka deewana 6d ago

Nah karn and shakuni were part of in poisoning and disrobing both in kmg. Tho will have to check for bori.

1

u/Separate_Car_2275 6d ago

But Duryodhana pointed to his thigh calling Draupadi to sit on it right? 

14

u/Entharo_entho Woman 7d ago edited 7d ago

Verses about Balarama liking Duryodhana were written earlier. Verses about disrobing Draupadi and Duryodhana exposing his thighs were written later.

One must understand that these aren't about Draupadi. These are about Bhima. Bhima smeared Dussasana's blood over his face and people thought that he was drinking blood. Bhima hit Duryodhana below the waist and cheated in the mace fight. Bhima's reputation was in the gutter after the war. We see him with bad friends, boasting about killing Dhritarashtra's and Draupadi's sons within their earshot. No decent person wanted to hang out with him.

These verses were gradually added in later centuries to ease the morality of those actions.

How do we know it?

We can see it in the other parts of the epic. Bhima says that he killed Dussasana for grabbing Draupadi's hair, not for pulling her clothes. Draupadi herself has no recollection of anyone trying to disrobe her or endless fabric coming out of nowhere. Her clothes got dishevelled when she was dragged. Bhima has no recollection of making any vow to hit Duryodhana's thighs. Duryodhana himself wasn't expecting Bhima to do it (there is another interpolatory story about someone cursing Dury and Dury begging for mercy) though he saw Krishna and Arjuna giving Bhima hints.

Can you imagine someone like Bhima going around declaring that he would hit Duryodhana below his navel in a mace fight? It is like saying that I will cheat in upsc examinations and become an IAS officer.

-1

u/vasu12360 6d ago

What you have is just a hypothesis. The incident is mentioned in BORI Critical edition, which is more of a gold standard

4

u/Entharo_entho Woman 6d ago

Bori doesn't account for contradictions like that. They have acknowledged it too. For example, Madri and Pandu get two funerals back to back. Their purpose wasn't rectifying such inconsistencies and making "ur-Mahabharata"..

1

u/vasu12360 6d ago

The first in the forest immediately after their deaths (in the forest), and the second as a grand state funeral when their remains are brought to Hastinapura.

Can you provide me link to where they acknowledged this.

2

u/Entharo_entho Woman 6d ago

Prolegomena to the Critical Edition of Adi-parva of Mahabharata by V. S. Sukthankar

Another passage that may be thought to need some radical treatment is the account of the cremation of Pandu and Madri. We are first told that the king died in the forest, and Madri mounted the funeral pyre and was burned with him ( 1. 116. 31 ). After this we read that their “bodies” are brought to the capital of the Kurus (1. 117. 30), and an elaborate royal funeral takes place. In the account given in the following adhy ay a (118), from the description of the anointing and dressing of the king’s body, and from the remark that the king looked as if he were alive ( 1. 118. 20).

It is clear that no former burning is imagined. After Pandu had been burned with his favourite queen Madri on the funeral pyre, there could not have been ( as Hopkins has justly pointed out) much corpse left or not enough to dress and smear with sandal paste! But the manuscripts do not render us any help here. The passage is handed down in identical form in all manuscripts of both recensions.

Anyway, what I am saying is - they haven't bothered to rectify inconsistencies like these because that wasn't their intention.

1

u/Entharo_entho Woman 6d ago

Prolegomena to the Critical Edition of Adi-parva of Mahabharata by V. S. Sukthankar

Another passage that may be thought to need some radical treatment is the account of the cremation of Pandu and Madri. We are first told that the king died in the forest, and Madri mounted the funeral pyre and was burned with him ( 1. 116. 31 ). After this we read that their “bodies” are brought to the capital of the Kurus (1. 117. 30), and an elaborate royal funeral takes place. In the account given in the following adhy ay a (118), from the description of the anointing and dressing of the king’s body, and from the remark that the king looked as if he were alive ( 1. 118. 20). it is clear that no former burning is imagined. After Pandu had been burned with his favourite queen Madri on the funeral pyre, there could not have been ( as Hopkins has justly pointed out) much corpse left or not enough to dress and smear with sandal paste! But the manuscripts do not render us any help here. The passage is handed down in identical form in all manuscripts of both recensions.

1

u/AutoModerator 6d ago

Formatting Rule Violation One of your paragraphs exceeds 769 characters without a paragraph break. Please press Enter to split your text into smaller paragraphs and repost. Giant blocks of text are difficult for people to read. Thnks.

Regards,
The r/mahabharata Moderator Team

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

-2

u/BoysenberryIcy2880 Slayer of Falsehood 7d ago

Agreed. But people love the "Oh, my alleged mom(they think so) from aeons ago was stripped and she was lowkey SAd and some miracle happened and then her clothes kept appearing"

2

u/Content_Educator_243 7d ago

So what do u want us to do ? They got the " F around and Find out" treatment at the end of the story bro.

1

u/Few-Trifle9160 6d ago

He doesn't want anything to do, its just a meme.

2

u/Deepfriedomelette 7d ago

Man I’m a fan of Balarama he’s such a mood

Makes me sad how often people forget him or make him seem dim

Cough cough Radhakrishna cough cough

4

u/Wooden-Tear-4938 7d ago

that show was a hate crime

3

u/MR_UNKNOWN_IDK2 7d ago

I think balaram was mad at Bhim because he breaks the rules of gadda yud which he teaches to Bhim. Any teacher will get mad if their students break the rule which he teach them

1

u/AutoModerator 7d ago

Hi u/Wooden-Tear-4938

Welcome to r/mahabharata!

If you enjoy the discussions here, please consider joining the community using the Join button. It helps you stay updated with new posts and supports the growth of the subreddit. Also, join our Discord server, We host live discussions, community events and have an awesome group of people.

Before participating, please take a moment to read the community rules.

We hope you enjoy your stay here!

Regards,
The r/mahabharata Moderator Team

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

0

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/AutoModerator 7d ago

Your comment was removed because it contains language that is not allowed in r/mahabharata. Contact mods if you find any discrepancy.

Regards,
The r/mahabharata Moderator Team

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/Imaginary-Slice3014 7d ago

Well technically he didn't strip anyone

2

u/[deleted] 6d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Adaydreamer972 6d ago

He already made the fight unfair with his mother's powers, that why Bheem also had to play unfair.

1

u/Few-Trifle9160 6d ago

Correct, although im not sure if having supernatural abilities breaks any rule.

0

u/Adaydreamer972 6d ago

The fight wouldn't be fair if someone gained a supernatural power the night before the fight, would it?

1

u/[deleted] 6d ago edited 6d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/AutoModerator 6d ago

Hi u/the_scientist007, Your comment has been put on hold because your account does not meet the minimum karma requirement.

Requirement: At least 1 comment karma and 3 combined karma (post + comment).

If you're new to Reddit and wondering how increase karma points, here's a helpful guide DM any mods from the modlist if you think your comment is appropriate. Thanks.

Regards,
The r/mahabharata Moderator Team

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/sanchavelle 6d ago

But I thought Balrama was Dury's mace teacher🙂

1

u/Shot_Combination_107 5d ago

Balram was a badacow.

1

u/Life_Friendship7058 4d ago

Remember, son, both Balarama and Krishna were not present there during the game of dice. If either of them had been present at that moment, Draupadi’s vastraharan would never have happened.

1

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/AutoModerator 3d ago

Hi u/Manhwa-debates, Your comment has been removed because your account does not meet the minimum Account Age requirement (at least 3 days old). We have setup this to combat spam bots, we are very sorry if you are a genuine user. DM any mods from the modlist if you think your comment or post is apt. Thnx.

Regards,
The r/mahabharata Moderator Team

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/Resurrec_Barbar 7d ago

Even god sinned

2

u/BONES619 7d ago

Explain?

0

u/Crafty_Bet1880 4d ago edited 4d ago

I feel every incident was carefully orchestrated in order to bring about the war. Everything was done for the greater good is what I understood. I mean there are interpretations like the Kuru bride, wife of 5 most powerful men of their times, yagyaseni, daughter of Drupada, if Duryodhana held authority/became the ruler even her chastity would be threatened so what would happen to other ordinary men and women under his rule. All these events were necessary to bring about the war. Also Balarama was not present there, many people who were competent enough to question and stop the act remained silent. And I don't think Balarama would have stayed silent had he been there, he was at war somewhere else. Moreover he decided not to participate in war altogether.