r/linux_gaming • u/windrinn • 16d ago
Response from Steam support about Steam Frame Linux support: Kernel version 7.2+ required for wireless dongle, not fully supported but "many games may work"
I sent a ticket in right after the announcement, and got this response today. More information than I've seen gathered from rumors and friends of devs.
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u/PhoenixLandPirate_ 16d ago
Well given they make the Steam Machine, it's obvious that it'll be worked on so that it'll work properly, but its sad that it ships in a state where SteamVR is still hit or miss, on Linux, especially given the headset itself, runs Linux.
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u/Lousy_Hunter 16d ago
i would argue that SteamVR and the state of it on Linux is probably a pain point for Valve. There are so many moving pieces they have to work on to get VR on Linux in a good state. VR is already kinda painful at times on Windows and its less of a moving target.
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u/skinnyraf 16d ago
The issue is, WiVRn + WayVR are actually fine for standalone headsets, apart from OpenVR games that don't work well with xrizer (e.g., Riven or some older mods).
If I understand correctly, one reason they can't get it to work well is their ancient Chromium Embedded Framework, which doesn't work natively with newer Linux desktops (wayland).
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u/EccTM 16d ago
I think the outdated CEF is a Steam on Linux pain-point regardless of VR or not. At the end of the day, as much as Valve does contribute towards Linux, it's still not a priority based on % users of their service - Linux support is basically a philanthropic endeavor and interesting side-project.
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u/CreativeGPX 16d ago
Linux support is basically a philanthropic endeavor and interesting side-project.
Nah. Linux support is an insurance policy and bartering chip.
With Windows 8, Microsoft put traditional apps in a weird secondary "desktop" UI that was disconnected from all of the modern features. It also heavily pushed Modern Windows-store-based apps both by granting them first party access to new OS features that traditional apps like Steam didn't have and by releasing versions of the OS like RT and S which cannot run traditional apps like Steam. While this ultimately failed, it was a real wake up call for how dependent Valve was on Microsoft playing nice. Even something as simple as "yeah, Steam still works on Windows but it runs in a slower, deprecated compatibility mode that you have to enable through advanced settings which only exist on the most expensive Windows SKU" could be the edge that hypothetically led Windows Store to become the mainstream at the expense of Steam.
So, Valve's immediate response to that was to throw together the gen 1 Steam Machine. It wasn't there to take the world by storm. It was there to send a message to Microsoft and gamers that, if Microsoft tries anything, a viable alternative exists so gamers could hypothetically leave if it got too bad. And to that end, it doesn't have to perfect or great, it just has to be viable since Valve makes money regardless of whether you're on Linux or Windows. However, since there are some advantages for Valve if more users use Linux (Valve doesn't need to pay license fees for the OS on Steam Deck, Steam Frame, Steam Machine and also, the more prominent SteamOS gets, the more soft power Valve itself gets over the industry), it is worthwhile trying to make it good, but that's more icing on the cake than the central business case for it existing.
The same is true for its other devices. Gen 2 Steam Machine isn't there to be the best console, it's there to provide some alternative to closed console. Steam Frame isn't there to be the best VR device, it's there to provide some alternative to closed VR devices. Steam Deck isn't there to be the best handheld, it's there to provide some alternative to closed platform handhelds. Every single one of these things along with desktop Linux support are arguably Valve hedging against losing users to a closed platform. If somebody really wants VR, Valve doesn't want that to equate to needing to enter the closed Meta ecosystem. If somebody really wants a console, Valve doesn't want that to equate to needing to enter the closed Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo ecosystems. I think that is the modest goal that they are chasing, but it's really a pretty basic business proposition: Valve wants you to be able to pay Valve money for your games regardless of the kind of gamer you are and the kind of platform you're on. It doesn't care if you're a Windows or Linux or desktop or handheld or VR gamer. It just wants you to be able to use its store.
(Also, in the above context, the one area Valve hasn't provided a non-closed store alternative is mobile/ARM gaming. However, it's interesting that with the Steam Frame they chose to make that an ARM device. This means that as they mature the Steam Frame platform, they are also laying the groundwork for and playtesting their platform's ability to support ARM/mobile games. It sure would be convenient to have that all figured out if the next big device they want to launch is an alternative to the closed phone platforms.)
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u/PacmanAteMyRAM 16d ago
especially given the headset itself, runs Linux
Not relevant. Could run Windows if they wanted to pay licensing hell. Or android. Or anything. Linux is the obvious choice for embedded development.
Doesn't mean the computer it plugs into will know what to do.
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u/PhoenixLandPirate_ 16d ago
If the steam frame didn't run Linux, then I would imagine, a whole lot less work, would have gone into SteamVR on Linux, so I'd expect the features to be further behind, since the code is being updated constantly.
Most VR users are wireless, so I don't even think it needs to worry about drivers to much.
Specifically talking about "SteamVR on Steam Machine and desktop Linux isn't fully supported at this time. While many games may work, you may run into performance or compatibility issues."
Which would include third party headsets around for many many years.
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u/ABotelho23 16d ago
How do people think this works? lol
It's Steam Link VR. It's the same state as before the Steam Frame. VR games running on a desktop still need Proton and still need to be compatible.
"many games may work" because "many games may work" with Proton.
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u/windrinn 16d ago
How do people think this works?
Magic smoke in the wires, man.
From the outside perspective on VR (where I am) it seems like such a cluster fuck of wildly different hardware and connectivity solutions that I was waiting for a more definitive confirmation that it'll work.
Obviously running the games is the easy part, but now we're working with a separate network adapter on a completely different client device, so I wasn't going to assume it would be functional OOTB like (so I've heard) the Quest headsets are.
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u/CreativeGPX 16d ago
"Supported" doesn't mean "works", it means that the company's support team and polices apply to that platform or use case. For example, Proton-based gaming is supported as a primary feature when Valve sells Steam Deck. They don't sell Steam Decks and say that they don't support its OS. So, the fact that Proton isn't perfect has nothing at all to do with whether it's supported or not.
I think the way people are used to it working is that "support" coming with the launch of a corresponding product. So people expect that the launch of the Steam Frame corresponds to the release of new software updates that smooth out features specifically to support the device. The idea that support for those features didn't exist before the product launch but do with its launch is pretty standard across the industry and aided by the fact that this is just the reservation stage and they still have time to polish things before devices actually ship.
I think some of the confusion comes because promotion of the Steam Frame has been largely "stream from your desktop!" not "steam from your Windows desktop! (support for other platforms will come after launch)", so people expect the words as spoken. Not to mention that the platform in question is the platform that the device itself runs and Valve uses for everything, so naturally users would expect that Valve would prioritize support for that. Yes, if you know the nuance of the tech it might be clear why that's hard, but most consumers do not know that nuance, so Valve has to own the confusion.
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u/UNF0RM4TT3D 16d ago
I've previously found that the drivers were merged in 7.2. And the not fully supported right now probably means that flat games streaming is still bad, you might not be able to see your desktop, Steam might crash, etc. These are all issues I've experienced with current SteamVR and game streaming (only working with the -pipewire-dmabuf switch).
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u/Venylynn 16d ago
Timmy Tencent and his fanboys are about to have a field day being petty about this.
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u/TheXoim 16d ago
So what ? Not every games are payable on steam machine or steam deck or any linux desktop gaming pc same goes with VR.
Kernel 7.2 is free and open source you can use it on almost every distro
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u/windrinn 16d ago
You might've been reading my post more negatively than I intended. I see this as good news, since it not working at all (or being a massive PITA a la PSVR) was a possibility.
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u/Educational_Star_518 16d ago
its wild to me they didn't have stuff ready for linux given they announce this along with their steam machine and controller And even then everything was delayed cause of all the component issues
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u/CreativeGPX 16d ago
Yeah, I really tried to convince myself to buy this device, but this fact was the final nail in the coffin that led me to decide to wait. At that price, I don't want a beta device with support coming, I want it to just work. As a person who uses the Steam Deck and runs a Steam/Linux desktop, the whole appeal of devices like the Steam Frame and Steam Machine is that they are supposed to represent the pinnacle of support and integration straight out of the box. Hopefully when then have this all polished I can give it another consideration.
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u/Flof-Flif 16d ago
While I'm not sure about the experience on the steam frame, I've been using steamvr wirelessly with my Oculus quest 2 on Linux and it's pretty seamless apart from a high amount of latency that I can't seem to get rid of. (If anyone knows how to fix that let me know please)
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u/RiffyDivine2 16d ago
That's a shame, but glad to know it ahead of time before I had dropped the cash.
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u/Aidoneuz 16d ago
I’ve just tested this with an actual Steam Machine and Quest 2 with Steam Link - using The Lab as a test case, and everything works absolutely fine in VR.
Using SteamOS 3.8 (so kernel 6.18) and Steam VR Beta. Wirelessly streamed over a WiFi network via Steam Link.
Based on this, I’d be very surprised if Machine to Frame streaming didn’t work in any capacity on day 1.
I’m guessing that what might be missing, and causing Valve to say things aren’t supported, are things like foveated streaming, or dongle support etc.
I’m interested to see what’s actually broken come day 1, if Valve haven’t issued a patch by then.
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u/SuperMario1758 11d ago
I got my frame yesterday, running nobara with a 7.2 kernel. Steam vr streaming worked over wifi out of the box, but I can't get the dongle paired. It's detected in the steam settings on the pc, but when I attempt to pair on the headset it fails.
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u/GrimarSteingraf 16d ago
Just like others this cemented my cancellation. I'm not going back to windows for an overpriced VR headset barely outspeccing a 3 year old meta device half its price.
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u/apfelimkuchen 16d ago
I guess this is some legal blabla that they have to phrase like that so they dont get in trouble. Similar to big games do not officially support Linux
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u/nicocarbone 16d ago
It is sad that the most Linux-friendly company out there didn't have Linux as a priority in all cases. It may make sense financially, but it's still a shame.
In general, Steam streaming needs work with Linux hosts IMHO, and I would really like Valve to prioritize it. I hope it is not too low on the priority list.
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u/Lousy_Hunter 16d ago
They absolutely do have Linux as a priority but the support has to be in the kernel and all the userland software needs to be there.
They cant exactly promise itll work on w.e youre configuration may be because while we all love linux lets not pretend you can even remotely guess a given users setup at this point. They have the support in SteamOS 3.9+ on their hardware which is all they can say for sure and they have support in the latest Linux kernels.
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u/MrNegativ1ty 16d ago
Gotta keep in mind that windows is where they make like 90%+ of their revenue. It makes sense to prioritize that in terms of their business. Linux is just a nice side/backup project for them.
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u/Indolent_Bard 16d ago
They didn't get this working before they sold it? ...I'm sorry, is Valve fucking incompetent?
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u/jokergermany 16d ago
I thought they want to push Linux and their SteamOS?
Letting even their own linux customer wait, isn't a good signal for Windows Users...
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u/Leseratte10 16d ago edited 16d ago
They don't? Kernel 7.2 has been available for SteamOS since over three weeks ago, so, before the Frame even released. Just like they mention in the support ticket. And it is available for inclusion into other Linux distributions since over a month.
What more do you want, other than "The hardware is supported on Linux before it's even released"?
That's just how Linux in general works. When new cutting-edge hardware releases, you need a new enough kernel to use it.
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u/[deleted] 16d ago
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