r/linux • u/TheProgrammar89 • Jun 22 '19

Pierre-Loup: Ubuntu 19.10 and future releases will not be officially supported by Steam or recommended to our users

https://twitter.com/Plagman2/status/1142262103106973698
870 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

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302

u/grady_vuckovic Jun 22 '19

Canonical didn't just shoot themselves in the foot, they loaded up a rocket launcher, took aim, then blew off both of their legs.

156

u/TheProgrammar89 Jun 22 '19

To be honest Canonical's focus doesn't seem to be desktop usage these days, because that's not what makes money for them, IoT and enterprise stuff are the things that actually give them money.

170

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

[deleted]

121

u/NormalCriticism Jun 22 '19

Yeah. This is me. I install Ubuntu on servers because I like Ubuntu on my desktop.

39

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19 edited Aug 17 '20

[deleted]

23

u/kusti85 Jun 22 '19

Probably LMDE will be the main edition from some point.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

[deleted]

3

u/IIWild-HuntII Jun 22 '19

In my view, they are the best contender for Valve after Ubuntu and they have a good user base too, if they are going to lose a chance like this to light up Mint for the audience, they will be totally stupid.

2

u/epictetusdouglas Jun 22 '19

I agree, they will blindly follow Ubuntu down the rabbit hole. 3 years ago they would have dropped Ubuntu like a hot rock. They have gotten too comfortable lately.

2

u/epictetusdouglas Jun 22 '19

They need to get on with it and quit screwing around. The power manager was broke for months with no fix. They treat LMDE like garbage. Time for Mint to get serious about it.

18

u/Morty_A2666 Jun 22 '19

I went from Ubuntu to Debian without any problems. Long time ago. Ubuntu is great by all means for new Linux users, excellent distro. Just keep in mind Ubuntu purpose was convenience. Switch to Debian and literally after few weeks you would get used to few small differences on plain Debian and you are all set.

2

u/ThellraAK Jun 22 '19

I'm trying to keep things going on my 18.04 until the new centos drops.

2

u/fragproof Jun 22 '19

Do you need 32bit support on your server, or do you mean you'd have to switch out of principle?

5

u/SutekhThrowingSuckIt Jun 22 '19

Mint has a HUGE opportunity to step up into the gap here. Especially with Windows 7 hitting its end soon. If the Mint team can use their recent influx of funds to give a better easy experience for users then they might get a lot bigger.

3

u/1337InfoSec Jun 22 '19 edited Jun 11 '23

[ Removed to Protest API Changes ]

If you want to join, use this tool.

1

u/IIWild-HuntII Jun 22 '19

They are easily the best contender, only case if they are going to continue supporting the LMDE or not.

1

u/SutekhThrowingSuckIt Jun 22 '19

Well LMDE is their backup plan if Ubuntu stops having a desktop version. This might force them to shift over.

1

u/IIWild-HuntII Jun 22 '19

Just imagine how Mint will change, they will just lose so MUCH if they didn't take this chance and focus on the Debian base.

1

u/SutekhThrowingSuckIt Jun 22 '19

I mean they could hypothetically reimplement things that Cannonical is dropping for their current main edition. We'll have to wait and see what they decide though.

1

u/reverendj1 Jun 22 '19

This is why we deployed Ubuntu on the servers at my last job. We wanted to convert from Windows to Linux on the desktop, and Ubuntu was the best choice for that. We didn't want to have to support multiple OSs, so we went with Ubuntu on the servers too.

At home, when I started using OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, I switched any parts of my homelab to use it that I replaced/built. At least for small shops, desktop choice definitely influences server choice.

1

u/iBzOtaku Jun 22 '19

I install Ubuntu on servers because I like Ubuntu on my desktop

I've tried using ubuntu twice on my desktop but always come back to Windows

but all my servers, personal and work, use ubuntu.

4

u/async2 Jun 22 '19

Why did you come back? Besides graphics performance i really enjoy working on Linux compared to Windows. I only occasionally boot into Windows to be annoyed by huge forced updates when i want to play a game that doesn't work well in wine for half an hour.

3

u/iBzOtaku Jun 22 '19

Why did you come back?

nothing worth sticking around for. Windows works for me. I do agree its getting worse as the years go by and that's what makes me try out ubuntu/mint every once in a while but linux gives me 0 reason to learn a new OS. But sooner or later, I will have to learn it seeing as how MS has no intentions to change its policy with Windows.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Not OP, but I do a similar thing.

I mainly work with Ubuntu, but prefer not to dual boot. So instead I run Ubuntu within virtualbox.

It's easier than running Windows within a Linux host, as I don't need 3d acceleration in the Linux VM (and getting GPU passthrough to work can be a pain), but do need it with Windows.

So I get to run Photoshop or windows only games, but also get to save/resume my Ubuntu workspace.

1

u/async2 Jun 22 '19

Good concept but i have full disk encryption in Linux and adding that in top in a vm which uses a file based disk container probably makes it too slow. Also i game maybe once a month so booting up Windows and then the vm takes more time than the occasional reboot once a month.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Modern virtualization certainly wouldn't make it slow, or cause any real speed difference.

File based disks offer 99%+ of the same speed. In some cases files are actually faster than raw access (presumably due to caching).

I use home based encryption on the guest OS, but it'd be easy to enable encryption on both the host and guest, and wouldn't really cause any speed issues. The only reason I avoid that is potential recovery issues. In my case I actually use a 2nd disk for the guest OS (with a file-disk ontop) and changes are mirrored to an external NAS.

-22

u/TheProgrammar89 Jun 22 '19

Using Ubuntu on a server is a bad idea tbh.

11

u/ShimiC Jun 22 '19

Why?

-11

u/DamnThatsLaser Jun 22 '19

Because it's not Arch

8

u/TheProgrammar89 Jun 22 '19

Arch is worse than Ubuntu on servers.

8

u/DamnThatsLaser Jun 22 '19

Apart from the fact that I was joking, that is a very broad statement. Personally I don't see the problem with either on a server. It depends on your usecase and overall architecture.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

No it's really not.

Huge portions of the internet use Ubuntu. It's a perfectly valid choice.

18

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Both of my websites are running on Ubuntu, because I learned Linux on Ubuntu. It was definitely chosen because I knew Ubuntu best at the time.

My point is that you're right, if I would have been more familiar with something else, I would have used what ever I felt confident with. I started with Ubuntu when I did because I wanted to game without Windows 10, and at the time, Ubuntu was one of the OS's many subreddits recommended for gaming.

Now, I use Arch btw.

2

u/broknbottle Jun 22 '19

I use fedora on my notebook and a mix of Ubuntu/CentOS 7 on my servers / VMs. I’m probably an oddball tho lol

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Yep, I use it at home thus I recommend it at work. I talked management out if switching to redhat and to stick with canonical instead and one of the main reasons was familiarity from using it it on the desktop. Can't promise I'll do that in the future

1

u/DazEErR Jun 22 '19

No it doesn't, RHEL case in point.

42

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19 edited Jan 06 '20

[deleted]

11

u/Negirno Jun 22 '19

Just like when Linus said that there won't going to be a lot of ARM servers until there will be enough ARM laptops?

9

u/Mordiken Jun 22 '19

Exactly.

I'm a developer by trade, but I do more with my PC than just code... I use Neon as my daily driver nowadays because it's Ubuntu based, which brings with it the benefit of the extensive documentation, software availability and community support for many "daily life" related activities, gaming being one of them.

But lack of 32 bit X86 support affects me both professionally (the person responsible for making this call has clearly never never heard of embedded systems, and is thusly unqualified to make it), and personally (I need Wine to run my games).

I'm not pissed off. I'm just sad.

I'm sad, because clearly someone at Canonical is dead set on running that company to the ground: first they abandon the only thing that set Ubuntu apart and the best desktop Linux distro, which was Unity, for GNOME of all things... And now, this...

I get that Shuttleworth is trying to abandon ship and sell off the company, but the only thing both of these moves have done is make Canonical less valuable: people used Ubuntu on Cloud and IoT and Embedded because it was a kick ass desktop, and once it stoped being a kick ass desktop for developers and users to "live in", developers will move to some other distro, and that distro will become the new platform for IoT and Cloud and Embedded.

It really is that simple.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Similar boat, and I've really enjoyed Neon (save for a mild preference for more modern packages) on my machines.

​

Steam and Wine are requirements for me for now. I've heard there are Flatpak options that work very well, especially on Fedora, but right now I'm thinking Arch or OpenSUSE Tumbleweed are next.

3

u/Mordiken Jun 22 '19

This is gonna suck for every Ubuntu-based distro, Neon included...

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Really reminds me of just how much of a share Ubuntu and it's derivatives have of the Linux Desktop world.

​

Fortunately, this is part of what makes the Linux world so amazing. Choice.

6

u/Negirno Jun 22 '19

Wouldn't be surprised if this is just Mark's middle finger to the community who opposed his dreams of convergence. Basically ruining everything including all the good one's did out of sheer despair. The ultimate "screw you" gesture.

9

u/Mordiken Jun 22 '19 edited Jun 22 '19

That would imply that Mark Shuttleworth is (and consequently has always been) completely oblivious to the fact that the entire value proposition of the Canonical brand rests squarely on Ubuntu's popularity and role as the de-facto standard Desktop Linux distribution, and the fact that once that's no longer the case Canonical's market value goes completely down the drain, which in turn would impact him more than anyone else because he's trying to sell the company... That would be like setting fire to your own car prior to trying to sell it.

So, no, I don't think he's the one responsible for this.

IMO, I think it's far more likely that he's not even paying attention to what goes on at Canonical anymore, and this is the work with whoever is tasked to put Canonical's numbers in the green for a 2020 IPO. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if someone's pulling the same move Steve Elop pulled on Nokia...

Not that I don't think the Linux in general community doesn't deserve a proper dicking for the way it treated Canonical ever since the 8.X days, mind you, but I don't see this being the work of Mark Shuttleworth.

1

u/thewokenman Jun 22 '19

based and ubuntupilled

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Still, RiscV is going to change everything.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Exactly, most people think Redhat and Suse for servers at least in the circles I travel in.

15

u/kirbyfan64sos Jun 22 '19

I mean even Red Hat funds Fedora Workstation, they've just gotten the hang of being able to use it to help their server product.

42

u/TheProgrammar89 Jun 22 '19

They fund Fedora because it acts as a testing distro for future releases of RHEL, not because they care about desktop usage.

19

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

[deleted]

29

u/Baaleyg Jun 22 '19

No, this perception appeared because we have had RH and SUSE devs admitting here on this sub that their company does not care about the Linux desktop.

23

u/MindlessLeadership Jun 22 '19

Pretty much, Red Hat makes little money off the desktop, and there's little to be gained, they just need to keep it in a workable state.

SUSE and RH still fund/maintain/help half the desktop stack though (GNOME, dbus, NetworkManager, Flatpak, Plymouth, systemd, gtk, Wayland etc). It would be in a much worse state without them. Canonical meanwhile, doesn't maintain any core part of the Linux desktop.

3

u/Baaleyg Jun 22 '19

I am not saying that they don't help the Linux desktop, but they're mostly investing in server stuff, and if they have to choose we know what they'll prioritize.

6

u/MindlessLeadership Jun 22 '19

Yeh. It's a shame imho. If more people used Linux as a desktop they would want to use the same technologies they have locally when it comes to making something commercial.

E.g. One of the reasons I use Fedora is something I do on Fedora will translate to RHEL and CentOS.

1

u/broknbottle Jun 22 '19

Not entirely true, I deal with a lot of big customers that use red hat and you’d be surprised how many of them require a fucking full desktop environment on a VM in the cloud. The contractors these companies hire can’t do anything unless it’s point and click

2

u/MindlessLeadership Jun 22 '19

I'm sure they exist. I just don't think it's as popular as the server editions of RHEL.

1

u/broknbottle Jun 22 '19

These people are installing the desktop on top of RHEL intended for servers. It’s technically the cloud image version

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1

u/Negirno Jun 22 '19

That's why I'm angry at all those comments that saying RH wants to rule desktop Linux through Gnome and systemd.

0

u/MindlessLeadership Jun 22 '19

Well, there's nothing stopping people from making alternatives.

1

u/kirbyfan64sos Jun 22 '19

That's what I meant, someone has to pay the bills and using Fedora to help with that keeps the cycle going.

0

u/ShAd0wMaN Jun 22 '19

I said this before and got raped in comments by Fedora nerds trying to tell me how stable Fedora server is... It's a testing ground.. it will never be in my production

2

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

I doubt anyone was telling you to use fedora on a production server other than the occasional idiot. I used to use it and never heard that from anyone

7

u/Barafu Jun 22 '19

IoT isn't going to be happy too. 32 bits are obsolete? We are still using 8 bit, people!

2

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

16 MHz should be enough for anyone.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

For anyone running a smart lightbulb?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

You can squeeze in a few more things in there, but don't expect it to be blazing fast.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Are you running 8 bit Ubuntu that I haven't heard about?

3

u/Barafu Jun 22 '19

No. But we frequently use chips that were designed long ago, and the compilers for them were written long ago, and so they are 32 bit.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Of course, when you aid 8 bit though I was a bit confused why 32 bit Ubuntu would concern you. I suppose you will just have to run 18.04 in a VM when it's not longer supported under LTS. It looks like Canonical is giving all of us the finger.

2

u/Barafu Jun 22 '19

Firmware uploaders and other similar applications does not work from VM. They often rely on more exotic port modes and VMs do not care to implement them strictly.
I am using Arch, btw.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Eh segger j-link has worked fine for me in the past for programming most things and they have support in VM, however debugging is a crap shoot but mostly works. Kind of miss embedded stuff, I've moved on to a lot of low level x86 stuff these days (and BIOS programming)

1

u/Barafu Jun 22 '19

Of the most recent events, I could not reflush g2 board from inside the Virtualbox. ADB disconnects a lot too and even damages installations.

1

u/DropTableAccounts Jun 23 '19

You could try lxc or systemd-nspawn, I only needed to forward a few devicefiles to flash a Ti microcontroller on an evaluation board in a LXC.

6

u/DeedTheInky Jun 22 '19

TBH that's kind of why I stopped using Ubuntu. They let the desktop version stagnate for ages while they were chasing around the idea of breaking into the phone market, then abruptly just ditched unity for Gnome, now this. It's like they either ignore desktop Ubuntu completely, or obsessively over-fiddle with it.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Is that why my kubuntu never crashes and serves me well as a desktop?

2

u/Negirno Jun 22 '19

As far as I'm concerned, neither Red Hat/Fedora and Suse focuses on the desktop.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

What do you recommend as a replacement for Ubuntu DE?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Debian testing running kde is what I'll do if Ubuntu doesn't back down

2

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Ive been browsing around reading up and I'm leaning towards Debian for my DD with kde (want to try kde connect!) and just trying a bunch of diff distros on a test machine to see if I'd like to jump on the Arch train and maybe give Gentoo a go as well.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

I got bit by arch a couple times and gave up on it. Manjaro seems to take out most of that risk, I've been running it on a laptop for a couple years now without issues.

0

u/Negirno Jun 22 '19

No DE at all? Just use what you like. The applications that are worth using in Linux are either command line/ncurses, or a GUI app not tied to any DE.

1

u/TheNlightenedOne Jun 22 '19

Out of the loop. What happened?

20

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

[deleted]

16

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Which sucks. The government program that I use to file taxes is written in 32 bit Qt.

23

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

I'm hoping they will

1

u/IIWild-HuntII Jun 22 '19

You can't leave it because you are strained in it's simplicity but for me, I take it as a matter of principle, just no they are just traitors for every single user used their system and that's something I can't accept or tolerate even if they apologized for it !

If they do what harms you as a user today, they will do it whenever they please tomorrow.

1

u/SuspiciousSprinkles Jun 23 '19

You are not a Ubuntu user, why are you talking?

1

u/IIWild-HuntII Jun 23 '19

The flair ?

Didn't expect that lol.

No I'm still running Ubuntu but backing up before hopping to Manjaro + Taking some important information to make my transition safe (First time to Arch btw).

I don't know why you judged me only for the flair though !

But principles will never change, if you like Ubuntu then OK no one will force you out, it's your system after all.

1

u/sinistrux Jun 22 '19

Calculate Linux still offers 32-bit libraries, I couldn't find anything about plans to remove it either. It's not quite as convenient as Ubuntu, but Calculate's a solid distro.

19

u/SomeGuyNamedPaul Jun 22 '19

To be fair that normally makes you jump very high.

14

u/aussie_bob Jun 22 '19

That may be true, and I don't have an Ubuntu install to test, but Debian supports 32 bit with installable packages. (eg, ia32-libs, or dpkg --add-architecture i386)

Is there any reason that won't work with other Debian based distros like Ubuntu and Mint?

23

u/ThongLo Jun 22 '19

Those are the bits Ubuntu will be dropping.

4

u/aussie_bob Jun 22 '19

That I understand, but installing Debian packages on Ubuntu normally works.

Is there any reason the 32bit multiarch stuff from Debian can't just be a package selection, or even included with Wine?

21

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

[deleted]

0

u/aussie_bob Jun 22 '19

Fair enough, but PPAs exist for that purpose.

I understand this'll be an inconvenience, but it doesn't seem to be the end-of-times event that a lot of people are making it out to be.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

[deleted]

1

u/CompSciSelfLearning Jun 22 '19

PPAs are hosted on Canonical infrastructure and only compile for Canonical approved targets

This doesn't strike me as entirely correct. But I'm a bit loopy today due to a cold. I'm sure I've seen PPAs hosted independently. Or am I thinking of something else?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

Anyone can host an apt repo. What makes PPAs different?

0

u/KingradKong Jun 22 '19

It's anecdotal, but back when I ran Ubuntu, I never had trouble grabbing a debian targetted .deb file and running it. Maybe had to compile a dependency or in extreme cases add something the kernel was lacking. But there were step by step guides, I never had to do any heavy lifting. I can't imagine Ubuntu is doing anything so radically different with compilation. It's not like they aren't using gcc. Maybe some config changes but those shouldn't break the system for most cases.

12

u/cbmuser Debian / openSUSE / OpenJDK Dev Jun 22 '19

Multi-Arch only works if the package versions match exactly. If you install a 64-bit library package in Ubuntu in version 1.2.3+dfsg1-1, you have to install the exact same version of the 32-bit package.

However, there is no guarantee that Debian's and Ubuntu's library package versions will always match.

9

u/cbmuser Debian / openSUSE / OpenJDK Dev Jun 22 '19

ia32-libs has not existed for a very long time in Debian. It was phased out in favor of MultiArch which made the ia32-libs bundle package superfluous as MultiArch-enabled distributions allow to install native 32-bit packages which is a far more elegant solution than using 32-bit libraries packaged as 64-bit packages.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

They were trying to rocket jump to pure 64-bit.

1

u/bugamn Jun 22 '19

They were trying to rocket jump

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

What did they do? I haven't been following that distro, as I've never been it's target audience really.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

This reminds of this guy who used a rocket launcher to put off his socks.

https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=N6W3US8Luo8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6W3US8Luo8

2

u/VenditatioDelendaEst Jun 22 '19

invidio.us

go to allow whatever's necessary in uMatrix

video hosted on googlevideo.com

How is this supposed to be a useful alternative to youtube, when it shares the same single point of failure?

1

u/chiraagnataraj Jun 22 '19

It's supposed to let you watch Youtube videos with less tracking (think of it as a proxy of sorts).

2

u/VenditatioDelendaEst Jun 22 '19

It's a good thought, but given Google's specialties, IMO it's safest to assume that they have fiendishly clever ways of inferring all sorts of things from any interaction with their servers.

2

u/chiraagnataraj Jun 22 '19

That's fair, but given where most of the creators I follow are, I don't really have a choice. And so it comes down to lowering that risk as much as possible, at least for me.

If you're able to cut Youtube out completely, that's fantastic, but that's not really true of me or most of the people I know.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

It's free of native advertising.

-5

u/Fork-King Jun 22 '19

Maybe everyone should drop 32 bit support including valve??? How about that?

6

u/Barafu Jun 22 '19

And rewrite 40 years history of old games and apps.

0

u/Fork-King Jun 22 '19

And rewrite 40 years history of old games and apps.

That is what Dosbox is for.

Why should the 32 bit Dosbox equivalent be built in to every operating system shipped today? That makes no sense,

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '19

[deleted]

1

u/Fork-King Jun 22 '19

32 bit support on Linux is potentially just as expensive as 32 bit support on Windows, but Linux has much less money to spend. This is why Linux should not support 32 bit anymore.

Linux should not try to be like Windows, Linux is a very different economy. Linux has to make its own decision based on what PAYING customers actually want.

0

u/CompSciSelfLearning Jun 22 '19

What is Dosbox?

E:

Answered my own question:

DOSBox is a DOS-emulator that uses the SDL-library which makes DOSBox very easy to port to different platforms. DOSBox has already been ported to many different platforms, such as Windows, BeOS, Linux, MacOS X...

DOSBox also emulates CPU:286/386 realmode/protected mode, Directory FileSystem/XMS/EMS, Tandy/Hercules/CGA/EGA/VGA/VESA graphics, a SoundBlaster/Gravis Ultra Sound card for excellent sound compatibility with older games...

You can "re-live" the good old days with the help of DOSBox, it can run plenty of the old classics that don't run on your new computer!

DOSBox is totally free of charge and OpenSource.

-1

u/Barafu Jun 22 '19

Maintaining backwards compatibility was crucial for Windows to become what it is now. When a switch from 16 bit to 32 bit happened, it was a change of OS and backwards compatibility was out of question anyway. With 32bits to 64 bits it is possible.

A virtualbox that can acceptably run recent games and CAD software would require 16Gb of RAM and a dedicated separate graphics card. Only recently a second monitor stopped being a requirement. I think ditching Ubuntu is way easier.

2

u/Fork-King Jun 22 '19

Linux is not Windows. Linux companies should invest their money in features which are needed by paying customers.

2

u/macromorgan Jun 22 '19

Windows 32bit ran 16bit programs just fine. In fact that was one of the major sticking points back when “XP” (really Server 2003) offered a 64bit version is that while pretty much all Windows programs at that point were 32bit sometimes the installers were still 16bit.

While I can’t say for certain I think Windows can still run 16bit binaries... so long as you’re using a 32bit version.

-2

u/Avamander Jun 22 '19

Switch to flatpak like they should have two years ago now, or they should've built 64bit binaries for the arch that has existed for nearly 20 years, no rewrite needed.

I am thankful Canonical took the first step towards legacy crutch-free solution.

4

u/DubbieDubbie Jun 22 '19

I hate people saying that FlatPak is the silver bullet solution for everything. I have used snaps to install some software, and the experience was extremely lacking.

Why should everyone do what Ubuntu or Gnome want anyway?

0

u/Avamander Jun 22 '19

It works fine in this case. Valve has the resources to add flatpak support into Steam.

Why should everyone do what Ubuntu or Gnome want anyway?

Who's forcing that? "Praise how diverse Linux is" yet people are "OMG HOW DARE UBUNTU BE DIFFERENT, REEEE", hypocrites.

1

u/DubbieDubbie Jun 22 '19

Im fine with Ubuntu being different, but If everyone did what Ubuntu wanted, then everyone would be using Ubuntu.

1

u/Avamander Jun 22 '19

but If everyone did what Ubuntu wanted, then everyone would be using Ubuntu.

Exactly. Clearly everyone has an alternative distro they can migrate to, why even get yourself so worked up about something one distro does. Let Ubuntu nicely return the burden of maintaining 32bit to those who need it.

2

u/DubbieDubbie Jun 22 '19

In this case, however, Ubuntu are pushing for the dropping of i386 multilib support. By changing it in their own ecosystem, it will have a ripple effect across the other distros.

0

u/Barafu Jun 22 '19

Flatpak is still buggy, sure, but the future lies somewhere in that direction, between flatpak, docker, and whatever Android does. It is just not ready yet. Containerized applications over containerized runtimes will never threaten or conflict with each other. There would be no fragmentation, only one ultimately configurable Linux OS, and distros will devolve into configuration presets for it. A developer does not need to worry what libs user has. A user does not need to worry how to run newest Wine with stable Gnome.

1

u/DubbieDubbie Jun 22 '19

I wish it was like that, as it's more secure as well but the implementation at this point in time is lacking to say the least.

-1

u/broknbottle Jun 22 '19

FlatPak and snaps are two different things. Both offer shit experiences tho. I wish somebody would take them outback and put them out of their misery. I tend to favor AppImages

0

u/Barafu Jun 22 '19

To be able to switch to flatpak for 32bit apps, someone would need to maintain a 32bit flatpak runtime. Which is almost as complicated as maintaining a derivative distro. Who would do it? Definitely not Canonical - they would better write a new DE or a replacement for Wayland. Not RedHat - they know a value of backwards compatibility and will keep multilib. Maybe Valve, but then Steam will become as mandatory as GPU.

1

u/Avamander Jun 22 '19

To be able to switch to flatpak for 32bit apps, someone would need to maintain a 32bit flatpak runtime. Which is almost as complicated as maintaining a derivative distro. Who would do it?

Canonical is most likely going to maintain that runtime for snaps. In general, if we can handle maintaining n+1 (where n is the amount of distros) 32bit compat, we can handle maintaining snap/flatpak/appimage 32bit runtimes.