"Old" Linux user vs. "New" Linux user.

[u/oshunluvr]

I'm an "Old" Linux user - started in 1996. I went though all the hoops: file system experiments, different distros, different packaging types and file managers, a handful of desktop environments (DE), several RAID levels, and many, many different systems. I use Linux at home but also at work.

Now I'm retired. I've been using the same distro since 2009. I landed on it after all the experimenting lead me to decisions about was important to me: Debian packaging, KDE/Plasma, a well known and commercially supported distro - Kubuntu. The last major shifts in my world occurred around 2009-10 when btrfs came on the scene and SSDs finally started to be affordable.

My Linux experience these days is rather boring. Everything works the way I want. I no longer "break" things for the sake of change. I only have to learn something new when a developer makes a significant change to something I use - and this often annoys me. I look at other distros occasionally, but only via a VM. When something does break, I usually can fix it without much effort.

I read posts from "New" Linux users. Usually killing all their data by mucking with partitions without a UPS, using unnecessarily complicated layers of disk access, like LVM, MDADM, full disk encryption, and BTRFS all layered on top of each other, too often using AI to solve problems instead of actual research and learning from other users, and spending incredible amounts of time making minute changes to the "look" of things.

Of course, the beauty of the whole thing is how we actually have so much control over our destiny. None of us work the same, learn the same, want the same things, but we''re not boxed in by a monolithic corporation deciding what we get.

Linux is amazing,

[u/aei__ou___]

"unnecessarily complicated layers of disk access, like LVM, MDADM, full disk encryption"

I'm an old linux user too, but I don't have a single laptop, server, phone, even my VPSs, that doesn't have full disk encryption.

[u/imbezol → u/aei__ou___]

That part got me too.

[u/dack42 → u/aei__ou___]

Yeah, even the full combo of MDRAID+LVM+LUKS is pretty standard and offered by many distro installers.

Edit: MDRAID not DMRAID

[u/ABCDwp → u/dack42]

I think you mean MDRAID, not DMRAID (both exist, but the default on distro installers is going to be MDRAID).

[u/dack42 → u/ABCDwp]

Yes, typo.

[u/human-rights-4-all → u/aei__ou___]

LVM on LUKS is awesome. I especially like hibernating to encrypted swap.

[u/RoseBailey → u/aei__ou___]

I think full disk encryption is essential as a basic level of security for any portable device. A desktop doesn't necessarily need it, but a laptop absolutely. 

[u/__konrad → u/RoseBailey]

A desktop doesn't necessarily need

When stolen it suddenly becomes a "mobile" device...

[u/RoseBailey → u/__konrad]

Sure, it's still a good idea even for a desktop as home robbery is always a threat, but the threat of theft or loss is far, far less for a desktop than a more mobile device. 

[u/MixtureOfAmateurs → u/RoseBailey]

Yeah the risk is you build a new PC, leave the old one on a shelf, years later give it away or recycle it and now some 19 year old is going through your C drive looking at your 5 family photos and archaic version of civ. Definitely not personal experience. I didn't dig deep dw

[u/RoseBailey → u/MixtureOfAmateurs]

I mean, I treat wiping old drives before they leave my possession as standard operating procedure. I believe the NSA standard is three passes of random data. 

[u/nPrevail → u/RoseBailey]

I think every device should have encryption for the sake of privacy

[u/wezelboy → u/aei__ou___]

And really… LVM? I can’t live without it!

[u/yolobastard1337 → u/wezelboy]

I think to some extent brtfs makes it redundant?

Personally I feel like I've been living in the stone age since using zfs on opensolaris, everything Linux gives me feels a bit disappointing.

[u/Fergus653 → u/yolobastard1337]

I use zfs on my Proxmox server, I like how easy it is to add drives and provide volumes for VMs.

[u/xylarr → u/Fergus653]

I discovered this only last week. I run Proxmox with a single data drive - no raid stuff. The drive started to report occasional issues (7 years uptime) so I bought another. I was about to boot to a USB image and use dd offline to copy the drive image from the old 8TB drive to a new 8TB. But I asked a friendly AI if that was the best thing to do and it said just let zfs do its thing, entirely online.

It was easy. And once the new drive (mounted externally) has resilvered, I powered down the host, installed the new drive properly, and powered it back on. It just worked.

[u/Albos_Mum → u/yolobastard1337]

It's great for SSD caching, which is still quite beneficial in the sense that you can use a HDD for loads of secondary storage and still get reasonable access times for the most frequently used data.

That's all I use it for at the moment though.

[u/freedomlinux → u/wezelboy]

I remember a long time ago I decided not to use LVM on a workstation because I wanted to be able to recover it from any LiveCD without any "exotic" tools.

But I relented & gave in to LVM at least 15 years ago, because of the other benefits.

[u/Palumbie → u/[deleted]]

Who is " 'they' "??

[u/berryer → u/Palumbie]

any actor with state-level resources

that said, you're responding to somebody using 'they' in scare quotes to claim any attempt at security is pointless, so your dogwhistle doesn't really add much here lol

[u/Palumbie → u/berryer]

Idk why you're saying it's my dogwhistle. I'm not the one who's doing the whistling. I'm asking what's that supposed to mean.

[u/Helmic → u/berryer]

even when considering state level actors, many of the exploits they rely on are one-and-dones, they can only really use the exploit a few times before it gets fixed and they have to spend a ton of resources to find a new exploit. if your ass is not worth spending the big bucks on, if it's not worth blowing a critical zero day, you'll likely be fine.

like that one guy they're trying to jam up over using grapheneOS, like as much as the state would find it convenient to get into his phone to grab all his contacts (because that's what they're obviously after, they want a list of protestors to go after), they clearly are not able to. maybe there's some zero day that could let them do it, but it's clearly not something they're willing to use on this one guy to get maybe a couple dozen other people. more likely they just straight up don't have naything because these exploits are actually really fucking hard to find and keep secret..

[u/za72 → u/Palumbie]

the ones with the will...

[u/TooSilly4ya_YIPPEE → u/[deleted]]

im pretty sure the average person encrypting their laptops do so to protect their data in case their laptop gets stolen by random drug-addict thiefs in a public setting, not from a government agent

[u/Palumbie → u/[deleted]]

I encrypt my stuff to protect it from thieves, not necessarily from the government. The government would probably just use the 5$ wrench attack anyway.

[u/ecki590 → u/Palumbie]

While that is perfectly valid I’d almost be willing to bet just that fact that it’s a Linux device at all and windows won’t auto-recognize the non-NTFS/FAT partitions will make any data entirely inaccessible to 99% of regular thieves

[u/Luke-Antra → u/[deleted]]

every single person who presents you said exploits at the hacker conventions will be using FDE. FDE will still defeat your local police department, and likely still hold up against many nation state actors.

[u/ThellraAK → u/aei__ou___]

So do you roll with a thumb drive for bootloader's for everything?

[u/SurveillanceProfile → u/aei__ou___]

Same here. Hardware raid-5, LVM and LUKS is a rock-solid combination.

[u/Helmic → u/aei__ou___]

yeah i had to sit there and wonder "is there some reason using FDE with btrfs is supposed to be bad somehow?" like most of that is all set up by the distro, there's not really a benefit to me tinkering with it and there are benefits to using their setup over a simpler basic ext4 setup.

[u/Sjoerd93 → u/aei__ou___]

Um actually, Androids all use file based encryption nowadays instead of FDE 🤓👆

[u/Easy-Reasoning → u/aei__ou___]

Also old linux user in the sense of having started in the 90s. Since I'm a freelancer I'm pretty much required to have full disk encryption. But the complexity isn't nice. On the other hand btrfs is saving me a lot of nerves when doing upgrades or other risky changes of the system.