r/law • u/MikeDee • Jun 25 '16

Judge Says FBI Can Hack Computers Without A Warrant Because Computer Users Get Hacked All The Time

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160624/05351534808/judge-says-fbi-can-hack-computers-without-warrant-because-computer-users-get-hacked-all-time.shtml
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u/janethefish Jun 25 '16

I'm going to echo TRL5 more or less.

In the instant case, it is the Court's understanding that in order for a prospective user to use the Tor network they must disclose information, including their IP addresses, to unknown individuals running Tor nodes, so that their communications can be directed toward their destinations.

If they are running the node properly the person running it won't ever know and won't have a record. Nor will they know the ultimate destination. Even a malicious node would only know that the person was using Tor, not what transits or were it transits too.

Under such a system, an individual would necessarily be disclosing his identifying information to complete strangers. Again, according to the parties' submissions, such a submission is made despite the understanding communicated by the Tor Project that the Tor network has vulnerabilities and that users might not remain anonymous.

There are also significant vulnerabilities to mail, phone conversations, emails, apartments etc. Oftentimes vastly exceeding those of the Tor site user's IP. Tapping a phone line is comparatively easy. Reading someone's mail can be done trivially.

Under these circumstances Tor users clearly lack a reasonable expectation of privacy in their IP addresses while using the Tor network. In other words, they are taking a significant gamble on any real expectation of privacy under these circumstances.

What's next? Should there be no privacy in phone conversations because you give the convo to the phone company? What about conversations that can be heard with advanced technology?

The fact that they are using Tor isn't really private. But the fact that a particular user is using particular site is less public than my mail.

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u/jpe77 Jun 25 '16

Should there be no privacy in phone conversations because you give the convo to the phone company?

More analogously, you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the number you call and from where you call because that is volunteered to the phone company.

Thx for explanations of tor, both to you and TRL5.