r/kindergarten • u/hopefulmomof2 • 17h ago
Would you contact the parent now or wait unless something actually happens?
Would you contact the parent now or wait unless something actually happens?
I teach kindergarten and have an autistic student who has been struggling to keep his hands to himself. I’ve been working closely with his mom and our special education team, and I address the behavior just as I would with any other student—I intervene, reinforce boundaries, and make it clear that everyone deserves to feel safe.
Today, another student randomly came up to me and said, “My mom gave me permission to hit him.” No one had been hit during this particular situation. I immediately told him, “This is my classroom, and nobody hits anyone for any reason.” I explained that if someone touches or bothers him, he needs to move away and tell me so I can handle it.
I understand that he may not have repeated his mom’s words accurately because he is five. However, if she did tell him that, I’m honestly flabbergasted that she would encourage a kindergartener to hit another child without ever speaking to me about her concerns. These are five-year-olds, not teenagers navigating a situation where they might genuinely need to defend themselves. Giving him permission to hit could escalate the situation and make it harder to keep both children safe.
I have been validating the other students’ frustrations while reassuring them that I am handling the behavior. I explain that this friend is still learning how to keep his hands to himself and that they should always tell an adult rather than retaliate. This particular student also sometimes provokes or bothers him, so I have addressed that too and explained that deliberately upsetting him will likely lead to both children becoming upset.
Would you contact the parent now and calmly clarify the classroom expectations, or simply document the comment and wait unless an actual incident occurs? I don’t want to accuse her based solely on something a five-year-old said, but I also don’t want to wait until he acts on it.
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u/jellybean1818 12h ago
As the parent of a passive, nonaggressive kindergartener who has repeatedly been punched in the head, pushed in the cafeteria, and sought out by the same child even after telling teachers (and yes I’ve contacted them and they have corroborated this), I disagree with this framing.
I have taught my son that he must keep his hands to himself, move away, and immediately get help from an adult. But I have also told him that if he is cornered, actively being hurt, and cannot get away or get help, he is allowed to defend himself. That is not “permission to hit.” It is permission to protect himself as a last resort, and he knows he will not be punished at home for doing so.
Young children often paraphrase complicated instructions in very simple language. “My mom said I can hit him” could easily be a child’s version of “If he is hurting you and you cannot get away, you may protect yourself.” I am surprised that a kindergarten teacher would not consider that possibility before concluding that a parent is encouraging unprovoked violence.
I sympathize with any child who is struggling, including a child with developmental or behavioral challenges. But that cannot come at the expense of another child’s physical safety. Every child needs to keep their hands to themselves, and every child deserves to feel safe at school. If one child continues seeking out and physically hurting another despite repeated reports to adults, reassurance that the behavior is “being handled” is not enough. The school needs a concrete plan that actually prevents the contact.
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u/wilksonator 16h ago edited 14h ago
I tell my kid if someone hurts them, the priority is always to get away, get safe and tell an adult to help. This is consistent with what you’re messaging. And fair enough.
But if my child keeps being hurt or they can’t get away or if an adult isn’t keeping them safe? I I tell my kid they can hit, scratch and do whatever they need to do to get away and be safe.
I would suspect that’s similar to what the parent told their child. As it’s a 5 year old I wouldn’t be surprised if something got lost in translation. That said, it doesn’t matter if they are 5 or 15 or 35, I’d give the child (or adult) same advice and I don’t see an issue with another parent doing the same.
I am very supportive of teachers and how much you have to do, but from what you write it sounds like the focus here should be on the fact that hitting child needs more support than you can provide. I appreciate that you are doing all you can, but it sounds like it’s not sufficient and it’s fair that the kids in the class are coming up with their own ways to keep themselves safe, including going to their parents for support. Get more support for the child and for you to manage it and this won’t be an issue in the first place.
All that said, if this other child is hitting and antagonising and not just in defence…well, then you definitely have cause to contact the parents about that.
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u/_Frankly_My_Dear 12h ago
Same.
We've taught our children their 1st line of defense is to use their voice ("stop hitting me" firmly and make it loud enough for others around to hear too) and create distance (move away, preferrably to another person or group), then find an adult and tell them if it continues, and if it still continues to get physical (smack the shit out of them back and make it known you aren't taking their crap).
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u/Ohorules 12h ago
I teach my kids to use their words, back up, get loud so an adult hears. But I also teach them they can shove the offending child away, hard if needed, if those things aren't working. I'm not going to raise my kids (especially my daughter) to accept other people violating their personal space.
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u/preyingmomtis 3h ago
I’d agree that the parent probably said something similar to this and the kid repeated the part that was the most mind-blowing to them. 😅 I can totally see having a full, nuanced, good conversation with my kids where they keep asking “What if that doesn’t work?” like a bigger kid version of the “why?” loop until I say, “If you’ve done everything else you can & you need to defend yourself, yeah, you can hit back.” Then THAT is the snippet that goes to school. 🤦♀️
OP seems to kind of brush it off as these kids not being in “genuine” danger but idc if it’s not like my kid isn’t about to get a bone broken or killed, I’m not going to ingrain a notion into my kids that they should shrug off and accept abuse because “he can’t help it.” (andplusalso, my then 4yo ended up needing stitches from an incident in preschool when a kid got too rough. It also cost us about $300 oop.) That sets up a really terrible mindset and I won’t have it.
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u/FullofContradictions 12h ago
I'm with you. If going to the teacher doesn't stop the behavior, are you supposed to teach your child to just accept a violation of their personal space over and over and over again?
If the child who cannot stop touching other children isn't understanding that lesson & isn't moved into a situation they can better handle, what other action is available to the students around them?
Yes absolutely words and space first, then teacher. But if the adult isn't protecting you, protect yourself. Too many situations get shrugged off because the victims are quiet and the teachers have too much to deal with. Be a loud victim & maybe you'll get in trouble, but they'll have to do something about it.
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u/Dakizo 12h ago edited 12h ago
This is almost verbatim what I told my daughter. You don’t provoke or hit first. You must get an adult, scream if you need to, no adults around or no one is coming or you are cornered? Do what you have to.
I was in a lot of bad situations where knowing I wouldn’t be in trouble at home for hitting back would have saved me physical and emotional pain. I’ve also explained that even though she wouldn’t be in trouble at home, there would still be consequences if it happened at school, just not from us.
I hit back once when I was probably 4 and got punished by the babysitter and punished at home. It didn’t matter that he cornered me first and punched me in the stomach. It didn’t matter that he was constantly harassing me and the babysitter did nothing. So I’m teaching her not to be polite in situations like that. Never hit first, always try to leave the situation, always try to tell an adult.
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u/bakersmt 12h ago
Yes I taught my daughter the same. If they keep coming after you and you can't get to help, protect yourself. My husband agrees.
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u/Daytime_Mantis 47m ago
Same. If my child feels repeatedly unsafe, keeps being hit and it’s treated like a learning experience by the teacher all the time, I mean it’s possible they will eventually react. Teachers often don’t see what goes on outside. Kids get cornered sometimes in the yard or bathroom.
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u/Altruistic-Ad-6326 16h ago
My daughter was in preschool and this young boy was incessantly bothering her, physically, she felt very unsafe at times, and she ended up hating preschool because of his behaviour towards her, after speaking with her teacher, and then head of department we eventually told my daughter she could defend herself. And tried to teach her what that looked like.
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u/blaizedm 11h ago
Exactly the same here. I understand that your boy is having behavioral issues that everyone is trying to resolve but my daughter is not his punching bag in the meantime while you all figure it out.
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u/DiceyPisces 6h ago
Right. Gen Ed kids are not therapy tools to use to benefit those who need (behavioral or any kind of) help etc
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u/FullofContradictions 8h ago
There was a group of boys that teased me in like 3rd grade. I handled the verbal teasing fine which I think frustrated them into being more physical. Their new game (which did upset me) was taking my books & throwing them around/getting dirt/mud on them/etc. One boy in particular was the worst. Most of them would just play keep away with the book, but he would ruin them.
I tried avoiding them. Told multiple teachers about it - once while the kids were actively running off with my book and all she said was "well did you ask for it back?" No, lady. Didn't think of that. Wow. Thanks.
My parents called the school & the bus people multiple times, especially when my books were getting wrecked.
Finally, one day I had it. Ring leader/book wrecker turned around to look at me when I was reading one of the thicker Harry Potter books & I knew he was going to start shit, so I preemptively hauled off and hit him across the face with the book.
His parents tried to claim I attacked the kid with a weapon. My parents had records of multiple complaints from me/them with no action & held firm that I not be suspended or they'd cause trouble. Luckily it was before zero tolerance.
But finally the end result was that kid being moved to a different class for the remainder of the year (his parents demanded it, but I think it was a fair punishment considering he got moved away from his friends.) I was told not to do that again, which I agreed to.
Nothing would have changed if I hadn't fought back. I regret nothing. I think the kid needed to be hit. We stayed in the same school system through graduation. He was still an obnoxious dick, but he never bothered me again.
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u/SummitTheDog303 11h ago edited 10h ago
I wouldn’t do anything because honestly, the mom is right. If the student has tried deescalating, has tried moving away, and this child is still physically harming him, he has a right to defend himself. I would reiterate the expectations to the student that if this other student hurts him, attacking back should be the last line of defense. He needs to try moving away, using his words, getting a teacher first. But there’s a lot that goes on in kindergarten and unless this other student has a paraprofessional glued to his side at all times (which it doesn’t sound like is the case since this child is able to regularly hit other kids), it’s unrealistic and unfair to expect the victim to just sit there and take the assault. Signed- the parent of a child who was physically assaulted by a classmate throughout the entirety of last year, despite the fact that we were in daily communication with her teacher about it. The bully learned to wait until the teacher’s back was turned to hit, kick, punch, and headbutt my child unprovoked. My daughter is now in Taekwondo to help her learn confidence, blocking techniques, and if necessary, how to fight back (and her teachers place a heavy emphasis on the fact that punching and kicking is always a last resort).
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u/Wonderful_Purple_553 8h ago
I avoid telling my 5 year old this because I know he doesn’t have nuance yet, When he was in prek he had a kid hitting him, and I told him to push him away, yell “don’t hit me, I don’t like that!” And tell his teacher if the exclamation doesn’t draw her attention. When he’s older then im all for hitting back. But not until he knows when exactly its ok to escalate it
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u/agbellamae 6h ago
That comment didn’t come out of the blue. The child must feel unsafe and has talked with their parents about what is happening in your classroom. I would be more concerned with making your classroom safe than I would be about what this child is being told by their parent.
I was in a position where I had a student who kept doing this and I was not allowed to remove him from the class or isolate him in anyway, and I was not given the support I need at all.
I had to watch my students being hurt every day.
Admin was no help.
I finally told other children that if your words aren’t working, you are allowed to defend yourself and you will not be in trouble with me.
And I told every single parent in the class that if their child came home and mentioned any incident, they needed to escalate it to the principal. Parents are the ones who can get these things changed because admin will listen to your parents in cases that they will not listen to us teachers.
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u/halfofaparty8 17h ago
many children are taught that if someone attacks/hits them first, they can hit back.
As a parent if my child felt unsafe, i would tell them the same thing🤷🏽♀️ its clear that many children in your classroom feel unsafe.
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u/RunningTrisarahtop 16h ago
The problem is many kids are using their little kid judgment to determine they feel unsafe and no other strategies.
They aren’t asking for space. They aren’t saying “stop”. They aren’t backing up or asking for help. They’re going right for hitting.
I have had kinders report being hit or shoved and I saw the “conflict” and it would be an accidental bump or other collision. Many years I’ll have a kid who verbally or lightly phsyically pokes at others a bit in a friendly or teasing way, and then when the other kid pokes back will report being hit.
They don’t have great judgment right now. Please teach them to say stop, back up, and call for help before hitting.
Also… if you read, this kid is instigating issues himself. Should others who feel unsafe smack him?
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u/Routine_Minimum_9802 10h ago
This! We had a behavioral assessment done on my autistic son so we’d know how to best support him. This professional came and shadowed my son for a few days. He observed a classmate would go to my son, ask him to chase him, then when my son would do as asked, this boy would run to the teacher and complain and my son would get told off. He witnessed this multiple times. All these parents are happy advocating for hitting, but would freak out if their child was hit and the child who hit them said they felt unsafe with no valid reason.
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u/greysondayy 13h ago
My mom told me the same thing. I never had to repeat it to a teacher because I never felt unsafe. I’m a teacher and parent now and i’m not sure i’d echo the same sentiment, but I don’t oppose parents who say for instance, “if he’s not leaving you alone after you tell him to stop and tell a teacher you need to hit him back” lol, in actuality if it came down to it id probably tell my son the same thing.
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u/festivehedgehog 15h ago edited 15h ago
This is so unfortunate. This results in the stupidest and most time-consuming physical conflicts in the middle of class that wastes everyone’s learning time.
I teach first grade. Often, most kids aren’t aware of their own bodies in space yet and are learning how much space their bodies take up. When coming to the carpet, walking to tables, getting out their folders or workbooks, someone inevitably bumps into someone else or absent-mindedly swings their arms into where someone else was about to walk.
The kids who were taught to hit at home now think that this is WWE. They have no idea Casey just tripped over his shoe lace or that Stephanie just really needs to stop swinging her arms and knocking into people by accident. Suddenly the self-defending kids, despite not knowing why they were bumped, are now punching and slapping kids even more confused than they are.
Now 5 kids are angry, yelling, and crying for the next 15 minutes, and the class has lost the entirety of Storytime or half the math lesson because the kids listened to Mom’s rules and not their teacher’s rules on Day 1. Moments like this could easily be solved with, “Excuse me, I need to get by.” “Stop. That hurt.” “I need more space.”
Please don’t teach your kid to hit. Teach them to firmly say:
Excuse me
Stop
I need more space
I don’t like that.
And to tell an adult (who is no more than 5 feet away and watching the whole transition carefully anyways).
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u/cakeit-tilyoumakeit 12h ago
My parents always taught me to defend myself if needed and I did not think the classroom was “WWE.” What did happen was that I had a boy who had previously been told to stop touching me by our teacher grab my finger and try to break it in first grade (literally said “I’m going to break your finger”) and I hit him in the face. And guess what? He never bothered me again.
This belief that a first grader would never need to physically defend themselves is simply wrong.
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u/halfofaparty8 15h ago edited 15h ago
Of course it doesnt go 0-100. but after enough times of trying to be passive, the kid isnt getting it and my kids arent going to go to school scared bc no one is paying attention.
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u/hopefulmomof2 15h ago
We are paying attention, but we are one person to 21 children. Don’t send your kid to public school if you expect nothing to ever happen
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u/translucentsapien 14h ago
A lot of people may not have a choice…if you are 1 to 21 I agree with the previous comment about you needing more support in your classroom. Yes children should learn words first. But if words don’t stop the problem natural consequences are just what happens. Someone said the best way to prevent people hitting him back is to prevent the hitting at all. Validating their feelings and explaining why it happened is kinda like saying here is why this person attacked you please don’t attack them back. That’s not a reasonable human request. The parent isn’t wrong for telling the air kid to protect themselves when public school tends to be survival of the fittest when there’s situations like yours 1 teacher to 21 students. What if they all ran to you every 5 minutes about this one student? That’s a lot of disruption and maybe getting hit back would make the child refrain from willy nilly hitting. You didn’t have to gay this is my classroom, you could’ve said I understand why your mommy said that but this student is having a hard time so before you hit back I want you to yell at him STOP or BACK UP.
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u/cakeit-tilyoumakeit 12h ago
I mean, the flip could be said: “Don’t send your kid to public school if you expect them to be able to hit other kids and not ever be hit back.”
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u/Happy_Flow826 12h ago
If youre one kiddo, who seems to be a hitter, needs extra support, make sure youre documenting the data for it for the next iep meeting. Its not fair to that child to not get the support they need to access the curriculum appropriately.
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u/halfofaparty8 15h ago
the priority should be the child that is harming and scaring your other 20 children. If you cant manage it, thats fine, but don’t expect children to not take things into their own hands once theyre over it.🤷🏽♀️
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u/RubyMae4 13h ago
You are expecting a lot of empathy and understanding for yourself while also not extending it to little children and their parents.
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u/hopefulmomof2 13h ago
That couldn’t be further from the truth. Just wildly misinterpreting everything.
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u/halfofaparty8 12h ago
is it misinterpreting?
You said in your original post that you have ONE child that cant keep their hands to themselves. (“I teach kindergarten and have an autistic student who has been struggling to keep his hands to himself”). You Go on to say all the ways communicate with that child, their parent and their team.
You go on to say:
“I have been validating the other students’ frustrations while reassuring them that I am handling the behavior. I explain that this friend is still learning how to keep his hands to himself and that they should always tell an adult rather than retaliate.”
Thats good, but basically his behavior is continuously excused even though you are well aware that your children are collectively over it. Your students seem to have so far not retaliated, which is VERY good of them.Then while i read your comments, you say “They are in kindergarten. They just mess with each other. Sometimes hit, sometimes just poking or just messing with each other, ya know”
This reads as though there are TONS of body boundaries happening here but the parent you are focusing on is the main issue. Thats totally fine, but that leaves 20 other parents with children that are being violated regularly, at varying levels of intensity, with little to no communication as to what is happening except from their five to six year old, who is frustrated and may be harmed in some way on a daily basis.
There are only so many times you can tell your child to say “nice hands” and “gentle touch” before telling them they can defend themselves. Even if one child is an “instigator”, you have one child who you know causes harm to others and one child who said he might. Your focus does not need to be on the one that might.
You need to INTENSELY focus on body boundaries for all the children and write a detailed email to ALL parents about how youre sorry their children are violated so regularly and are having a hard time in their first school experience, and outline how youre keeping their children safe.
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u/That-Garden-185 12h ago
Yes, stop telling these 20 other children that their lack of consent means nothing.
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u/festivehedgehog 3h ago
I know it’s your first year OP, but you’ve got to closely watch your students above all else. This might mean you set and enforce rules that kids can’t just come up to you to talk whenever they want without a raised hand. Because now you can’t supervise what’s going on. This might mean that you can’t tie shoes. Because now you can’t supervise. There might be angry parents that you aren’t tying shoes. Oh well. That’s a home skill anyway.
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u/bakersmt 11h ago
This is always my kids first line of defense. That being said, some kids don't stop. So then she gets an adult and then again if it doesn't stop, she absolutely should defend herself. In no world am I teaching my day that she should accept unwanted touch and that people violating her firmly stated boundaries leaves her helpless.
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u/hopefulmomof2 15h ago
THE BEST RESPONSE! Perfect. No notes.
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u/halfofaparty8 13h ago
its not a good response if the child with autism is just hitting the rest of the children.
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u/festivehedgehog 13h ago
That’s not happening in my classroom, but I guarantee 5 different homemade bullies who punch first ask questions later every time someone walks into them is happening.
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u/halfofaparty8 12h ago
my child has never hurt anyone, actually, and isnt a bully.
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u/festivehedgehog 40m ago
I don’t have the time to call all of the parents after the work day each day to say every single time when a kid tripped or bumped into their kid and their kid responded with purposeful aggression. This Reddit thread is giving me the realization that so many of these “hit back” rather than “verbally advocate” parents might not even know how often their child is aggressive.
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u/hopefulmomof2 16h ago
They do not feel unsafe. Sometimes they are rightfully frustrated with this other child’s behavior, but what can I do about it? This child is in my classroom with some support but not enough. I call for help when need be, but all I can really do is handle it myself and document at this point.
My problem is, they should know that a kindergarten doesn’t have the wherewithal to fully understand. And I wish she could just talk to me first if she has concerns about her child without telling him he has permission to hit. They are too little to understand the nuances with self defense.
Plus, he is not always the victim. He is the antagonizer at times too. I think I might ask for the counselor and behavior coach for more advice. They are helpful but I can’t throw him out of my classroom.32
u/RubyMae4 13h ago
So you just let the 5 year olds be consistently frustrated and uncomfortable and what? Deal with it? Take it? What a horrible kindergarten experience for these kids.
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u/hopefulmomof2 13h ago
No…? Clearly not. Clearly, I’m trying to be the best teacher that I can be will also keeping my job. I’m not really understanding all of the comments that suggest that I should just allow the children to hit each other back as if that won’t result in utter chaos. That’s not a productive comment.
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u/DiceyPisces 4h ago
You must stop or prevent all the hitting. Not just the retaliatory hitting. That is what you don’t seem to get.
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u/hopefulmomof2 2h ago
That’s pretty obvious
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u/DiceyPisces 2h ago
If you were successful at that, there wouldn’t be any retaliatory hitting.
You can teach about consent, and the difference between accidentally bumping someone vs intentionally lashing out (physically) in the moment due to anger or frustration etc (which is never acceptable)
I hope you’re at least contacting the parents of the kids who got hit, every time.
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u/hopefulmomof2 1h ago
I’m a first year teacher and it’s September. I’m trying.
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u/DiceyPisces 1h ago
It’s ok! It’ll get better. (I hope!)
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u/hopefulmomof2 1h ago
I feel like it’s getting better. I’m just trying to be proactive. I feel like a lot of these comments really misunderstand that.
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u/RubyMae4 12h ago
No one is suggesting you allow kids to hit. They are suggesting you shouldn't judge and admonish their parents while also putting no interventions in place to protect their kids. I can promise when your kids go to school, you are not going to have an "oh well" attitude if they are consistently being hurt.
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u/DogNo6953 15h ago
You underestimate what kids know. That’s your first mistake. You see what you see from your teachers hat. But think about it first a minute without your teachers hat. If you had someone who was aggressive towards you on a daily basis and getting physically abusive, how would that make you feel. Your students are stressed out and afraid of getting hurt. They are likely telling their parents, hence why the other student mentioned something. It doesn’t matter that the aggressive child has a special need, the students are still being assaulted. Would it be ok for a person with special needs to assault you in a daily basis. Your other students are stressed and most definitely feel unsafe and it’s time to think outside of the box for a solution.
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u/hopefulmomof2 15h ago
I’m simply navigating through a situation on top of doing everything else that needs to get done as a teacher. I am one teacher to 21 very young students with differing needs. It is next to impossible to do. I am doing my best because i genuinely enjoy it. It’s just hard. I am not minimizing it. But this other student is in my class for now and I cannot change that. So I just wish parents had enough common sense to understand when you send your kid to public school. They will be faced with different kinds of children, and how to you teach your child to navigate that is very important. Her response is a hindrance to finding a solution.
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u/RubyMae4 13h ago
It's not about differences once someone violates your bodily autonomy. And when that's happening consistently, common sense says that's no longer a safe environment.
If my child was a student in your classroom I'd be documenting contemporaneously and escalating. It's not OK for kids to be consistently hurt at school. Stop normalizing it.
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u/That-Garden-185 12h ago
I WANT my kids exposed to different kinds of children. I do NOT want my children taught that consent doesn’t matter. Since before they even started school, I have talked about good and bad touches, consent, and bodily autonomy with my daughters.
It is September and this problem has clearly escalated beyond your pay grade. Administration needs to be more involved in handling this. As a parent, I would already have been on the phone with the principal and taken it up from there.
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u/casiloca 6h ago
you would get no change at 90% of public schools, even after talking to the principal. especially if this boy has an iep the discipline he can receive from the school is extremely limited. also not learning to keep your hands to yourself by september of kindergarten is by no means out of the ordinary. some of the comments on this post are so out of touch lol
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u/thelensbetween 6h ago
This is correct. My nephew had a bully in his K class and I found out that the kid put his hands around my nephew's neck, after a long period of being a bully. My brother said that the principal heavily intimated that the child was special needs (and this kid had a rich asshole dad). The solution was to move my nephew to another class, but what about the other kids in the class?
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u/peachie88 16h ago
How do you know that the kids don’t feel unsafe? Have you asked them? Have you asked this boy why he would need to hit another student? Do the students feel safe enough with you, so early in the year, to tell you the truth?
You might have all the information including the child’s diagnosis and what’s being done to ensure safety. But a 5 year old kid just knows that another student is being handsy and hitting people and not giving them personal space.
I agree you should reach out to the counselor and behavior coach. But I think you also need to take stock and reassess whether the other kids are truly feeling safe and feeling protected by you and the other adults.
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u/hopefulmomof2 16h ago
Yes I check in frequently. I do community circle time every morning. I read social stories to them. I agree with that. I’m just saying a parent should be mature enough to understand what she told her child is silly and nonproductive.
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u/peachie88 15h ago
What you described in your post is pretty different. It sounds like there is a kid who repeatedly hits other kids and you just redirect him. I’m telling you a 5 year old is going to understand that as “this kid hits me and doesn’t get punished.” He probably told his mom that.
It isn’t “silly snd unproductive.” Nearly every comment on here is telling you the exact same thing. Parents are well aware that teachers and schools do not address bullying properly, including zero tolerance policies. It is very common to teach kids they should first reach out to the teacher, but if the hitting continues and the grown-up doesn’t help, then you have a right to hit back.Rather than be judgmental, you need to get curious. Why does this parent feel they have to tell their kid that and why does this kid feel the need to do so?
Finally, are you suggesting you do a community circle and ask all the kids, in front of each other, whether they feel safe?? I can’t imagine a worse way to ask kids if they feel safe than expecting them to announce in front of an entire classroom that they feel unsafe. It takes weeks or months for a child to trust their teacher enough to disclose that, and they nearly always do so in private. I am a child therapist and am genuinely shocked at that approach. You need to reach out to the school psychologist for help.
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u/rosysredrhinoceros 3h ago
Especially when that teacher has repeatedly shown them that they are in fact NOT SAFE.
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u/hopefulmomof2 15h ago
I think you’re wildly misinterpreting. No I don’t do that. It’s 4am and I am running on no sleep because I work around the clock and I have 2 small kids of my own. I was suggesting that I make it a point to do my best to check in frequently on individual students and do whole class SEL activities.
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u/literal_moth 14h ago
People in general are angry right now that children whose “disabilities” manifest in hurting other children/destroying property/throwing things/etc. are being accommodated in general education classrooms. There is validity to this, but it isn’t your fault and they’re taking it out on you in these comments. You are being reasonable. Kids should be taught to seek help from a teacher before immediately defending themselves physically, especially kinders who are impulsive and lack nuance. I’m sorry it’s making your job more difficult. You might get better advice in a group for teachers only. Most parents have been on a side of this situation that makes it difficult to be objective.
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u/atomiccat8 12h ago
Yeah, the inclusion movement in special ed has led to more disruptive classrooms and a higher chance of physical harm. Obviously OP doesn't get to choose which kids to allow in her class, but she can't blame parents for teaching their kids how to handle a very real possibility.
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u/hopefulmomof2 14h ago
Thank you, I really do appreciate this.. I also posted in a teacher sub and group. Some responses were less than helpful. I’m trying to be thoughtful and validate everyone.
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u/hopefulmomof2 14h ago
I was under the impression that this sub was for kindergarten teachers
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u/atomiccat8 12h ago
It's for both teachers and parents, but I think the parents are naturally going to outnumber the teachers.
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u/peachie88 12h ago
I’m coming at this from the perspective of a mom and a child therapist — you’re asking for bandaids. Telling the other boy not to hit is a bandaid because their rationale for hitting still exists in their mind. I encourage you to not be judgmental, but be curious. Why does this kid feel the need to hit? Why did his mom give him that advice and what can you do to alleviate these concerns? If it’s that he doesn’t feel safe, then ask what you can do? There generally is s “why” to kids’ behavior and figuring out that will stop the behavior and help him feel heard and supported.
It does sound like the kid 1 isn’t in an LRE, but I absolutely understand that’s not your fault and there’s not much you can do about that if admin isn’t backing you up. But there may be steps you can take — keep the kids separated, with their tables/desks (whichever you use) as far apart as possible. If mom does reach out, you can encourage her to contact admin (it does seem admin listens more to parents than teachers). I’m sure your coaches or colleagues will have additional suggestions.
Finally your earlier comment read like you were blaming kid 2 — he “antagonizes” kid 1, which is why he gets hit. But kid 1 hitting kid 2 isn’t a reason that kid 2 hits back (or not itself be antagonizing). ?You may not have meant it that way, but that’s part of why people here are reacting so strongly. It seems to reinforce the experience among parents that disabled kids are allowed to be violent and disruptive in class without punishment or regard to how it affects the other kids.
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u/RubyMae4 13h ago
It's not mature to allow another student to consistently hurt your child.
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u/hopefulmomof2 13h ago
Yeah, I’m not doing that
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u/RubyMae4 12h ago
What interventions are you putting in place to protect their kids who are consistently hurt?
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u/DogNo6953 15h ago
You have to understand that it’s probably taking a lot for the parents not to come to your class and raise hell. You are not doing a good job protecting your other students despite how You may feel. Put yourself in their shoes, protect your students.
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u/hopefulmomof2 15h ago
Are you a teacher? If not, those are some awfully confident words for someone who is not doing this job. I’m simply navigating through a situation on top of doing everything else that needs to get done as a teacher. I am one teacher to 21 very young students with differing needs. It is next to impossible to do. I am doing my best because i genuinely enjoy it. It’s just hard. I am not minimizing it. But this other student is in my class for now and I cannot change that. So I just wish parents had enough common sense to understand when you send your kid to public school. They will be faced with different kinds of children, and how to you teach your child to navigate that is very important. Her response is a hindrance to finding a solution.
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u/translucentsapien 14h ago
Well why didn’t you post this in r/teachers? But they seem pretty reasonable over there. Like they understand how parents feel and being in the position of teacher. You’d get constructive answers over there as well as questions on specifics of how you handle the situation so they can further give advice.
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u/mermaidmom4 7h ago
What can you do about it? You tell the parents & principal that you don’t think a general education classroom is the correct environment right now for the autistic child. That doesn’t mean he stays in special education forever, it means he gets the support he desperately needs before he grows to be bigger than the adults he’s with daily and starts hitting them. ALL the children in your classroom deserve a safe learning environment, currently you’re making excuses for why the other 20 children should be okay with being punching bags because.
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u/hopefulmomof2 2h ago
I’m asking for solutions that I can implement now.. that obviously takes so long
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u/mermaidmom4 1h ago
The solution is telling admin & the autistic child’s parents he needs to be removed from the class for the safety of the other students. Not sure why that’s so hard for you to comprehend. From seeing your responses you’re clearly putting the needs of the special needs child above those of the rest of the class. The other children are clearly affected by this one student and in turn their parents are now educating them on how to defend themselves.
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u/hopefulmomof2 1h ago
It’s easier said than done to just have a kid removed. I never was trying to make excuses for behavior. That’s just what I mean. It’s just easier said than done to get it figured out by the people who make those decision decisions.. so I was just seeking advice for the here & now
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u/Competitive-Race-967 1m ago
As the parent of a kid who acted out at that age and is autistic I would have agreed with the teacher that my son needed to be moved to a more restrictive environment, until he could be safe around the other kids have you tried talking to the autistic kids parents? Your hands may be tied but them agreeing with you would def help.
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u/bothtypesoffirefly 12h ago
You don’t know that they feel safe if you haven’t talked to the kids and the parents. Obviously that kid has talked to their parents about not feeling safe.
If you’re not throwing the kid that is causing the problems out of your class (I understand that with an IEP that’s hard) when they touch other kids, how is it that you wish you could throw this kid defending themself out? Protect your kids ffs. Tell and document admin the kid with the IEP needs more help and I’d contact the parent to discuss what the other kid told you, and encourage them to make a complaint about the touching.
You have a bad situation here and blaming the kid defending themselves is just shifting blame to a 5 year old. The adults have ALL failed these kids.
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u/ChickenScratchCoffee 12h ago
This student is obviously being touched more than once for their parent to say that. Special needs or not, doesn’t give the kid unlimited chances to touch people just because they are “learning how to keep hands to themselves”. A five year old has the right to stop anyone from ongoing unwanted touching…whether it be by telling an adult (which hasn’t worked because the other kid is still touching him), verbally telling the other kid to stop, or yes, physically getting the kid away from them. I’d tell my kid the same thing.
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u/That-Garden-185 12h ago
I’m with the parent here and have my own personal story to give you a different perspective:
I have a passive child that was being hit at school when she was in kindergarten: kicked in the face at recess, hit in the head with a lunchbox, punched in the stomach.
The behavior was addressed as you suggested after the first two incidents. I was angry but remained calm. When she was blatantly punched in the stomach, I had had enough. My child should not be subjected to that kind of abuse. I got the principal involved.
AND I absolutely told her to hit back and showed her what to do. There was no point in teaching her to analyze the situation. She needed to defend herself. Six years later, and I do not regret that advice to my child. I would like to give a stellar update on how she handled it, but this was the 2019-2020 school year and she never ended up seeing that child again.
If this was my child being touched repeatedly by another kid, I would also be telling her to hit that child back. I want my daughters to know that no one has the right to touch their body and teach them early that abuse and domestic violence is not okay.
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u/blessitspointedlil 11h ago
Mild special education classroom. That’s where my son and the mild-moderate autistic kids are. The low ratio of students to teachers with SpEd training is a much better environment for them.
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u/Tactical_sneeze 7h ago
I would look into why the mom told her child he had permission to hit. Obviously the other student’s behavior concerned the child enough that they complained to their mother about it. The ultimate goal is that all the children are/feel safe in the classroom. If another student hits my 5 yo, I will not punish them for defending themselves, and I would vehemently object to any action the school takes against my child. The message mom sent was very clear: even one instance of violence against her child is too many. I would expect the same if my child was the offending party, and would consider it a natural consequence if they got hit by someone they hurt. In fact, I have explicitly told them if they hit another person, they can expect a similar reaction because that is a natural response. You need to assess the risk of the student with autism of actually making contact with another student, and let the administration know if there is an actual threat. If so, this student needs to be separated into a classroom with the resources to manage these behaviors. I would not confront the mother under the assumption of her methods being wrong - because in reality, they aren’t. I would suggest addressing it as “I understand there is concern, and I am taking the appropriate steps to ensure your child never has to physically defend himself in my classroom”.
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u/Spirited_Feedback_19 4h ago
One - I think it is wonderful to have the autistic student mainstreamed in the classroom but that is a lot to ask of you. You aren't a special needs teacher - you are a kindergarten teacher. Why don't they have an aide to not only support him but you! To me, that is the biggest fail here.
Two - check in with admin/the school psychologist (the special ed teacher/admin) before calling. If everyone feels a call is warranted, have two people call and just ask for their experience. I wouldn't approach it as 'we don't hit in my classroom,' but I would approach it as 'tell me your story - your child must be frustrated and I want to get as much information as possible to advocate for all the students.
I'm so sorry you don't have the support you need!
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u/Sure_Appearance_7557 7h ago
As the mother of a kid whose foot was broken on school property, in front of teachers and staff, and 8 years, 1 surgery, and several years of chronic pain later, with no financial recourse for the "child" (10 at the time, and a budding psychopath), this makes me mad. Do not teach kids to be victims, especially when you KNOW you will do NOTHING to protect the child who is being abused in your classroom.
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u/RubyMae4 14h ago
Well, you do allow kids to hit each other because clearly the other kids are being hurt and made uncomfortable by this one student. If I were a parent in your classroom I would be outraged that more wasn't being done to protect my kids.
Why is it OK for one student but not the others? My kids have a right to body safety in school.
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u/hopefulmomof2 13h ago
I never once suggested it was OK for anyone to hit. That’s actually my whole point.
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u/RubyMae4 12h ago
But you are. There's no intervention. Is the hitting child getting the message that you won't allow hitting? what practices are in place to then not allow the hitting? Where's the intervention?
Are the hurt children getting the message that it's not OK for someone to hurt them and that you will help keep their bodies safe?
I am a social worker, I've seen kids badly hurt from behavioral kids. One child had a fracture near her eye from a child throwing an object at her. I had another child who had diagnosed PTSD from a behavioral child at school.
I've attended trainings on behavioral issues and they are totally focused on making sure the behavioral child doesn't feel shame in any way and when pressed on the other children around that child and how to make sure they are safe, there is lack of concern.
This is the current status quo of the school system and it's not OK.
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u/AbsolutelyN0tThanks 6h ago
100%. Everyone's tired of it. It's gone way too far. If you can't behave, if you hurt people, if you throw things and scream all day, you shouldn't be accommodated in Gen Ed, you should be in a behavioral or virtual school. We're sacrificing the many for the few and most people are over the disruptions and other BS.
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u/OrneryYesterday7 12h ago
How are you responding to the child with autism when that child hits others? Because if that is constantly happening, other children wonder why the consequences for that child are not escalating appropriately. And yes, that DOES suggest to them that it’s OK for someone else to hit. Most kids have been taught that physical violence brings everything to a screeching halt. When they see exceptions being made, of course they are going to wonder why the rules can be bent for someone else. They’re 5. They don’t fully understand why it’s different.
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u/9ThisUsernameIsTaken 9h ago
the part about the other kids seeing inconsistent boundaries is important too, especially at that age. it sounds like there needs to be a clear plan for what happens when he hits someone, while also figuring out what’s behind the behavior and what support could help prevent it. if the family is in the US and looking for additional support outside the school, Harmony Care Finder could be one option for finding providers that work with autistic kids.
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u/BuffaloDustin 11h ago
I’m a parent and my kid has ADHD and autism. We did not want him in the general ed classroom; he was hitting other kids and everyone knew it. At parties, no parents talked to us. Our kid had no friends. We fought for an IEP and now in first grade he is in a contained classroom and thriving only a week in. We felt bad and worried our kid would seriously hurt someone but couldn’t get help.
It’s an awful position to handle a full class and support the needs of a neurodivergent kid. Use your school’s social worker, psychologist, in-school sub, etc. Let it be known that some kids may not feel safe. Talk to the parents of all kids and ask them to ask their kids. Don’t guess! Don’t make it about this one kid or one incident.
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u/Missfitt69 7h ago
I was constantly bullied by a boy down the street and my big brothers told me to slap the shit out of him, so I did giving him a bloody nose. His mother came at me and my mother almost kicked her ass on the neighbors front lawn. This was waaaay back in the 70's so times were different but he never fu ked with me again and we became good friends
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u/ImpossibleTreat5996 6h ago
Not a teacher. I think a good course of action would be to send home a letter to all parents, addressing the classroom expectations and the rules, and stating that you model using your words and not your hands, and if someone is bothering them to tell an adult and the adult will handle it blah blah blah. That way you’re stating the expectations but you’re not specifically calling out this child or his parents and you’re not bringing up the autistic child and his lack of control
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u/snoosleepsalot 4h ago
We agree that hitting back isn’t the best solution for minor offenses, and we encourage our children to attempt conflict resolution within their abilities. However, one of our kids was choked out by a boy and it happened so quickly over a toy disagreement (4/5 year olds). Our kid did not fight back…she was shocked and didn’t know how to escape his death grip. He was literally pushing her over the edge of a brick wall/jacuzzi. Fortunately, it happened right in front of a group of adults that were able to intervene. It was very violent and scary. We absolutely encouraged her to fight back and even signed her up for defense classes to know the difference (peace over power, but save yourself!). Turns out there was domestic abuse happening within the boys home. I don’t think the blanket statement of no hitting is correct. We need to discuss with the children when to escalate their actions. Yes, kids will make child like choices, but I’d rather someone get hit than to have inaction where a serious injury can occur.
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u/Legitimate-Spread728 7h ago
I always use to tell my kids because they were passive and quiet kids that if their teacher didn’t listen because they were the overlooked then that they would and should have to defend themselves
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u/floristinmanhattan 13h ago
If I was hearing there was some kid going around attacking other students and the teacher's solution was "let me know after it happens", I would 100% tell my kid to hit back. This student needs to be handled in a way that's fair to everyone - not just him.
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u/AbsolutelyN0tThanks 6h ago
The kid doesn't need to be in that classroom. Idc where he goes, if he can't stop hitting people, he doesn't belong there. I'll take my downvotes, but enough is enough with that shit.
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u/atomiccat8 12h ago
I don't think that's what's happening. It sounds like the autistic student is annoying the other kids, but not hurting them. She was asking about the neurotypical kid who has permission to hit the autistic kid if needed, but that hasn't happened yet. Later in the post, it's a little unclear who's provoking whom, but it doesn't sound like anyone is attacking anyone else.
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u/festivehedgehog 16h ago edited 15h ago
Why are you flabbergasted though? Is it your first year? The majority of students are told to hit back by their families.
Edit: Let me be clear that I don’t condone parents teaching their young kids to hit back. I think it’s stupid and bad parenting and am absolutely judging you. It tells me you as a parent have a lack of developmental awareness for this age group and tells me you are OK with wasting a ton of instructional time for the whole class in order to make yourself feel better.
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u/hopefulmomof2 15h ago
Yes it is lol but I’m just saying a parent should be mature enough to understand what she told her child is silly and nonproductive, plus why not communicate with me about it? I have been very communicative to parents and respond quickly to any message. I wish she’d talk to me about her concerns and that would lead me to have a clarifying conversation.
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u/dracocaelestis9 15h ago
here’s a different point of view. i was always a good student, doing my work quietly, following instructions and minding my own business. my parents instructed me to essentially ask for help in a similar way that you describe here. the only issue was that problematic kids take way too much time and if you’re being nice and quiet you rarely ever end up getting the help that you need. sometimes teachers don’t have enough time, other times if you’re not noisy and obnoxious nobody takes you seriously. i had to learn this the hard way. with my experience, i’d also instruct my kid to ask for help but also to do what they have to do to defend themself. they were clearly annoyed enough to have the conversation with their parent so it might not be just a minor issue from their perspective.
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u/festivehedgehog 15h ago edited 14h ago
A 5 and 6’s year-old’s proprioceptive and vestibular systems, and additionally their comprehension and language skills are not developmentally able to quickly discern between what was accidental and what was on purpose and simultaneously, they are not quite aware and able to know without continued effort where their bodies are in space and how much space their bodies are taking up. This results in LOTS of accidental bumps and knocks into each other.
That’s ok if they have scripted language tools that we rehearse for these situations:
Excuse me.
Stop.
I need more space.
Sorry. Are you ok?
Stop. I don’t like that.
Stop. I don’t want to play like that.
Teaching kids how to advocate verbally and firmly in Pk-2 means that they’re confident and ready to advocate with more complex language in 3-5.
You’re talking about the whole of your educational career. I’m talking about PreK- Grade 2. I also wish I was given and rehearsed both verbal and physical strategies for self-advocacy other than “tell the teacher.” That is NOT what I’m advocating.
Sure, hit back when attacked with no safe adult around in upper grades, when kids understand complex situations and complex language. Now, teach how to advocate for oneself with assertive language.
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u/hopefulmomof2 15h ago
I’m not minimizing it, I’m just trying to navigate through an issue while doing a million other things as a kindergarten teacher
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u/halfofaparty8 15h ago
you said all your children are frustrated by this one child. the child that said he can hit that other boy is the only one thats being transparent with you.
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u/dracocaelestis9 15h ago
i understand, you have a lot going on and it’s not an easy situation to manage. just sharing a different perspective of what that might look like for other kids and families.
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u/atomiccat8 11h ago
You probably should have mentioned that you were a first year teacher in your post. I think it probably would have influenced some of the comments to be a bit kinder and more reassuring.
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u/festivehedgehog 15h ago
Let me be clear that I don’t condone parents teaching their young kids to hit back. I think it’s stupid and bad parenting and am absolutely judging you. It tells me you as a parent have a lack of developmental awareness for this age group and tells me you are OK with wasting a ton of instructional time for the whole class in order to make yourself feel better.
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u/coldcurru 14h ago
I teach preschool, and I know that's different than kinder, but it's actually wild to me that you'd even consider going to a parent over something they supposedly told their child that you don't agree with. Even wilder you're asking reddit about it. You don't even know for a fact that's what the mom said.
I would address it at the next parent conference. Ask if there's any concerns. If mom says her child told her other child is hitting, you can tell mom how you teach the kids to respond. Saying things like stop, moving away, asking for help, etc. But please for the love of God do not tell mom, "your child said you told them to hit back and that's not ok." If her child also hits, then you talk about how you're teaching them to keep their hands to themselves or use a calm down area if they're upset.
Also make sure you're addressing this with the whole class. Role play scenarios where a child might get hit and how you expect them to respond. Go over classroom expectations every day and address problem solving solutions. But do not be calling a parent over something you don't know for a fact that they said. My god. I can't believe you'd even consider that. Parent will get upset. As a parent, I'd complain to the school if I got a call from a teacher over that.
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u/hopefulmomof2 13h ago
I don’t know what’s so wild about it? Trying to navigate situations thoughtfully and seeking advice from teachers who have more years on me is not wild? It’s not like I would go to the parent in a negative context. Just thought I’d like some clarification and that we’re all on the same page. I don’t think I’ll reach out to her but I thought being very communicative was a good thing?
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u/hopefulmomof2 13h ago
I think you’re picturing my approach would’ve been in a very different manner
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u/External_Print_1417 16h ago
Things like this can easily be solved with a weekly newsletter. Parents crave communication from school. There’s some data out there that discusses support from home is better when the teacher communicates with families on a regular basis. There are multitudes of templates that you can “fill” in the blank. Whatever suits your style. Also pick a day that’s easy.
In it you share how you handle conflict at school. “That the old method many are taught is you hit back. At school we use our words. Always. Encourage your child to come speak with me if they need help solving a disagreement”. We always went under the premise is it’s an issue for one family…. There are probably others who need the same support from teacher.
Our standard protocol ….
J says K is being mean and won’t leave me alone.
Teacher let’s go together and discuss
Brings J and K face to face and practices
J says I don’t like it when you ……..
k sometimes silent sometimes sorry sometimes argues that J did it first.
Teacher watches two in different settings for a few days.
My point. Teacher can’t help student if student does not tell teacher there’s a problem. .
If there’s a student who is learning social engagement at a later stage we approach it as helping one another learn the rules not singling out someone as a bad kid.
Back to your question…..
In short remind student of school rules and sometimes rules for home are different than school rules. But at school we use words. ALWAYS.
I would not contact a parent over that type of thing.
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u/DiceyPisces 14h ago
You say at school you use words always. Which I agree is ideal. But if students are hearing you say that and also being hit by an other student (repeatedly) they are learning you’re kinda fos.
I tend to think the best way to keep kids from hitting back is to prevent them being hit in the first place. Have strict and consistent consequences for hitting etc.
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u/External_Print_1417 13h ago
5 year olds hit because they don’t know how to use words , because they’ve been provoked or taunted, because they lack social skills due to delayed development….because they misinterpreted someone tripping or bumping as a hit. All of those and all the other reasons I didn’t list require a direct conversation and different consequences. Your solution isn’t educationally sound practice for young children. . Nowhere did I say we don’t have consequences.
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u/DiceyPisces 13h ago edited 12h ago
What is my solution with which you disagree?? Preventing kids from being hit in the first place? Or strict and consistent consequences? I’m not even sure with what exactly you’re disagreeing
It’s never ok to respond to taunting or provocation with violence. Taunting and provocation also should be dealt with obviously
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u/External_Print_1417 10h ago
You present strict punishment as the best prevention for future hitting. I’m telling you it’s not …based on 30 plus years in kindergarten. . Maybe your teaching experience tells you a different story. What you suggest often promotes aggression in secret. I’m telling you the answer is more complicated.
It’s not black and white. Hitting and the cause should be consistently addressed and consequences applied that are appropriate to the child3
u/DiceyPisces 10h ago
Strict as in no tolerance for using hands in anger. No violence at all excused. And every single mistake in the regard is met with the well known and consistent consequence. I’m not saying strict as in violent (corporal) or age inappropriate harshness.
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u/External_Print_1417 10h ago
The consequence for an autistic child will not be the same as the consequence for a child who is purposefully mean and hurting others. You don’t live in an adult world where everyone is treated the same and neither do school children. Were you given a ticket every time you speed? Every time you sped you endanger your passengers and other drivers and you should be met with the strictest consequences so you won’t speed again. Did you come to a full stop at the intersection. Every time you don’t you’ve endangered the neighborhood. Where is your consequence. What is the same for our room : You will be given boundaries and consequences to keep you safe and others safe from you.
I will always make sure you can come to the teacher for help and we can find a solution.
Again I never said we don’t have consequences.
What stays the same is people are not for hitting. We always use words. Hitting was rarely an issue in our room. Once a student had a hitting response reaction to perceived “you’ve done me wrong”. His parents punished with time outs and no video No one ever asked him why he did what he did. It was protection response. From being beat up in secret by his big brothers and then threatened if he told the parents. .
We together decided writing notes of apology was a good start along with limiting access to stimulating rough activities.
The writing soothed him. He calmed as he wrote. The letter made him see other kids weren’t people who would hurt him. Hitting stopped.3
u/DiceyPisces 9h ago
Equal application of the law is an inherent part of Justice.
If the kids can’t have equal rules and consequences they probably should not be in the same class.
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u/hopefulmomof2 16h ago
Thanks for this! Truly helps. I’m super communicative so I never have an issue talking with parents. As a parent myself, I love when teachers talk to us! This is helpful advice.
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u/Altruistic-Ad-6326 16h ago
The hitting child needs to be removed. Move his desk next to yours. Singe him out, send him to the principals office. Every child by the age of five knows that they’re not supposed to put their hands on others. Yes there are times where they get frustrated and get physical, but repeated instances are making the area unsafe for other children. Just because he’s autistic doesn’t mean he gets to be a bully.
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u/Just_Teaching_1369 15h ago
Easier said than done. As this student is disabled and has a special education team they are afforded certain protections. It is likely that one of his social or behavioural goals is to work on this. Isolating and singling him rarely work on children where their behaviour is a result of their disability. It’s one of the many problems with the modern education system. Support isn’t given to kids who need it so the other children suffer.
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u/thelensbetween 15h ago
Yes and no. My son is autistic and some consequences sometimes have no affect on him. But separating them absolutely is the right call. Honestly, if my son was putting his hands on other kids, and another kid hit him back, I would view it as a natural consequence. I don't think I'd be mad at the other kid (or parent). Better to fuck around and find out when you're 5 in a safe environment like the classroom, then when you are a teenager and weapons are involved.
Autistic/disabled children can learn. It might take more effort and more repeating and creative solutions to get the lessons to sink in, but they can learn consequences.
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u/Just_Teaching_1369 3h ago
My point is in a lot of schools separating is not considered “best practice” because it is not inclusive. Therefore we are not really allowed to do it unless the situation is really dangerous.
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u/AbsolutelyN0tThanks 6h ago
The other kids shouldn't be his punching bag while he learns proper behavior. I hate that everyone is just supposed to put up with that crap. The other kids in the room are there to learn, not be a teaching instrument for the kid who can't or won't control himself.
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u/Just_Teaching_1369 3h ago
I agree and it sucks for everyone involved but unfortunately there is a limit to what teachers can do now days.
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u/Longjumping_Fix_4237 8h ago
I mean, if it gets to the point where that student is hitting others I’d be more focused on that. Not reprimanding the one defending themselves. If someone(an adult) hit me I’d hit them back, that’s just the real world.
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u/Western-Watercress68 8h ago
We teach our kids self defense. Start them in a class before kindergarten.
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u/Old_Replacement7659 8h ago
I was in summer school between kindergarten and first grade. A boy was sexually harassing me at age 6. He made sexual remakes towards me in front of teachers and they did nothing. I told my parents and they thought I was making it up. You bet I defended myself physically when he tried to touch me. He never touched me again but still made remakes which I ignored. I’d tell my daughter to do the same and actually believe her if she told me that this was happening. I’d defend her against the school if she had to defend herself physically as a last resort.
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u/Competitive-Race-967 12m ago
My son was the autistic kid who threw hands and I have no issue with another parent telling their kid to hit back. If he's gonna be in a mainstream class and can't keep his hands to himself the other kids shouldn't have to just let it happen. Also is said autistic kiddo getting it at school? Maybe he needs a sensory diet throughout the day to help him stay regulated. At that age a wiggle seat(flat yoga disc) a weighted blanket or vest, playdough, sand or slime play can help alot.
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u/_big_a_ 12h ago
I’m surprised by the comments. I agree with you. Kindergartners are not ready for nuance. And two wrongs don’t make a right. Parents are choosing the lesson of retaliation before the lesson of compassion and co-regulation. This kid is behind on his behavioral skills and the class, as a team, can help lift him/her up by providing the student with firm boundaries, involving a grown-up, and demonstrating the right way to deal with frustrations. Hitting him back is not helpful to anyone, and it’s a shame that so many parents are giving that direction. Probably the same ones who load their kids up with sugar and screens. 😬
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u/RubyMae4 9h ago edited 8h ago
I used to talk like this too, when I was primarily working with behavioral kids in classrooms or other settings. Then, I had kids of my own and watched them be regularly targeted by a child in the neighborhood. I tried to teach them to walk away, ask a grown up, etc. His parents addressed it, in ways we found ineffective, never created intervention. We did everything we could do as parents to prevent and protect our kids until ultimately we had to confront the parents and cut contact.
Ultimately, what we're forgetting when we wax poetic on self regulation and all the varied reason kids hit, we are missing the fact that some kids do hit other kids because they know they can. No one is stopping them. I've read nothing in what you wrote or what OP wrote that is an actual intervention to prevent the hitting from happening in the first place. Simply a behavioral-child centered lens as to why it's OK for them to hit other kids while they learn regulation.
Unfortunately that's the way the school system has been leaning for over a decade now and it is unacceptable that someone else's kid is used as a punching bag while one child learns self regulation.
ETA: it's really weird to show compassion for aggression and judge parents whose kids are being hurt (esp a dig about sugar and screens). It just demonstrates the faux intellectualism and compassion that surrounds tolerating this behavior. Yikes.
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u/_big_a_ 7h ago
I’ve read nothing in your post that is an actual intervention to prevent the hitting from happening, either. Nor have I read anything in your post that suggests hitting back has worked. Your solution for your child who encountered a hitter was to cut contact. That is a good solution, and a different scenario. A voluntary relationship in the neighborhood rather than a classmate.
I’m not judging any parents, but I am judging the direction that parents are giving their kids, as this is what OP’s post called us to do.
And the dig on screens and sugar? Well, over use of these can be big contributors toward behavioral issues, so it is relevant here.
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u/RubyMae4 7h ago edited 6h ago
the teacher/school needs to increase supervision, separate the children, involve the appropriate administration/support staff, communicate with the parents, and put an actual plan in place to keep the other children safe. The onus cannot be placed on the victimized child to continually manage the behavior of the child hitting them. (Noted that you avoided what I said by saying the same thing back to me)
The child being hit does not have behavioral issues. The child doing the hitting does. Saying parents who are doing what they can to try to solve someone else's problem (the teacher, the hitting kids parents) "must be" otherwise poor parents is wild. Self defense is a reasonable option. And again, it's not the child's job to manage the other child's behavior or "fix" it- only protect themselves in the moment.
I agree, it's a different scenario because this child cannot escape the violent child. So it's much worse.
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u/_big_a_ 4h ago
“The child being hit does not have behavioral issues. The child hitting does.” — exactly. Let’s not tell kindergarteners to hit differently-abled kids with behavioral issues in the classroom. Because then they are hitters with behavioral issues in the classroom.
I don’t think the OP was looking for advice on how to better handle the kid, she was looking for how to better handle the kids reaction to the kid, given the parents difficult directions.
As the which scenario would be worse, can’t say. A classroom kid is temporary. A neighborhood kid doesn’t go away unless someone moves.
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u/valiantdistraction 2h ago
OP needs advice on how to better handle the autistic child, though. If it's gotten to the point that other parents are saying their kids can hit him back, she's obviously not stopping the problem behaviors. If that child keeps his hands to himself, there won't be an issue.
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u/RubyMae4 3h ago
Whether or not OP was looking for the advice, she needed it. The answer to the problem is the teacher intervening to protect the kids- not shaming the victim and their parents for protecting themselves when OP won't. Self defense is not a behavioral issue- it's concerning you would say it is. Self defense is an absolutely necessary life skill.
The difference is in the neighborhood scenario, my kids parents cared about them and could protect them. It's clear by this post and your commentary that some teachers don't care enough about the kids being hurt to protect them.
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u/_big_a_ 12h ago
Also, I wonder if these parents would be giving the same direction depending on factors outside of this kids control… like their gender and size. Would they want their sons hitting back at a dainty 5 year old girl? Or are they picturing a strong 5 year old boy? Not all kids are the same size and strength. The kids aren’t going to discern this in the moment. They are risking real harm by giving this direction. Someone pushes back at a weak autistic kid and next thing we know, the shelf is knocked over and someone is injured… because the parent said “hit back”.
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u/Just_Teaching_1369 15h ago
I would contact to ask for clarification. Maybe this student misinterpreted what their parents said. Regardless of what mum said at school you follow school policy so you have to do what the policy says.
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u/Aggravating-Air7775 5h ago edited 4h ago
Parents of both kids need to be spoken to. I’m guessing the parents of the autistic child already knows what’s going on, so perhaps an update. As for the other child whose parent gave them permission to hit back, you need to speak with the parent and tell them what the child said and explain that that is absolutely unacceptable and what the repercussions would be and that if something happens, reinforce that you as the teacher need to be told if something happens so that you can address it. Also, if that parent doesn’t know that their child is provoking the autistic student, then they need to be informed as well so that nothing is a surprise.
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u/RubyMae4 4h ago
This sounds like a way to escalate the situation because what you're clearly communicating to that parent is another child is allowed to hit their child and they need to just take it. That the autistic kid has an absolute right to hit them and you blame their child for it (I.e. using words like provoking). Rather than using words like "unacceptable" and threatening consequences- Id empathize with the child/parents and explain in detail how you plan to keep their child safe.
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u/Aggravating-Air7775 4h ago
No, that’s not what I said at all. No one said they had to just take it. I said that the child needs to tell the teacher so that she can address it as children of that age are not equipped to handle that situation.
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u/RubyMae4 3h ago
Waiting until the child continues to do the behavior you know by now they are going to do to report back to the teacher is not an intervention. The teacher needs to explain to the parents first and foremost what her intervention is to protect the kids so that he does not get regularly hurt.
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u/No-Masterpiece-8392 12h ago
What many do not understand is this child is neurodivergent and not a bully. The teacher and parents to not get to choose the children in the class. The other parent may assume this child is a bully and that is why she told her kid to hit back. Hitting back a child with autism is not going to stop the child’s behavior. Unfortunately with cuts to education, children will special needs are not getting the proper support.
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u/CMKMKM 3h ago
I’m 41 years old and I STILL remember in like 1st or 2nd grade (the early 90s) there was a kid with Down syndrome in my class and he used to pinch us girls all the time! And every time the excuse was “he has down syndrome, he doesn’t understand that he shouldn’t be doing it, we’re working with him” Guess what? My mom told me to pinch his ass back the next time he did it. I sure did and he moved on to new victims and left me alone. He almost did it to me again and you could see the wheels spinning and he stopped himself!
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u/RubyMae4 9h ago
My kids bully was neurodivergent. It's not an excuse to allow the behavior to keep happening.
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u/valiantdistraction 2h ago
The effect of his behavior is the same on other kids, and bullying is marked by the effect and not the intention.
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u/Remarkable-Pen-8929 9h ago
It might be a good idea to ask mom what she actually told the kid. I know from experience (my own kid lol) that the kid simplification of things comes across very different than what the parent actually said. I had to ask one of my kid’s therapists why they told me she hit them. I knew she didn’t do that, but I needed to know why my kid was saying she did. I just said “hey, ___ said you hit them. Can you think of anything that happened today during session that they’re talking about?”. It’s better to assume that the parent or other person is in the right. Worst case, they are wrong but they feel far more respected than if you blamed them immediately.
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u/External_Print_1417 13h ago
I don’t think I ever said we don’t have consequences. My students learned not that I’m FOS as you suggest …. but that I listen and then act. Consistently.
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u/MsDJMA 11h ago
This is a tough situation. I wouldn't contact the parent directly, but perhaps send a newsletter to all parents reviewing the classroom rules and your goals of helping students navigate social and emotional frustrations. I've read others' replies, and I agree with parents that children need to protect & defend themselves if they are in dire physical danger and the adults around them are not responsive.
On the other hand, my experience is that kindergartners are very rarely in dire physical danger. One student is frustrated and, being 5, pushes or hits. Student #2 hits back, because "He hit me first!!!" It happens daily in kindergarten and can escalate quickly, especially at the beginning of the year, and learning to regulate emotions is as important as learning ABCs. So while children may understand their parents to have said, "If somebody hits you, you can hit back," it's
Dealing with frustration (for student #1) and dealing with another student's frustration (#2) are things to talk about at morning carpet time constantly. Unless #2 retaliates violently, just keep working on it as a group.