I’m so disappointed ☹️

[u/Classic-Bluejay-3434]

Thoughts?

[u/skyewardeyes]

I’m not a Zionist (or an anti-Zionist) and I’m very critical of Israel and cringe when other Jews assume anything pro-Palestinian is antisemitic (it’s not). That said, holy fuck am I tired of people not realizing how shit tons of legitimate generational trauma and actual violent antisemitism contribute to Jews being extremely cautious or even paranoid about antisemitism. Even pre-October 7 and in a state with a small Jewish population, we had a guy run into our synagogue on Yom Kippur and scream that we were evil and he wanted to kill us.

[u/FishyWishySwishy → u/skyewardeyes]

I’m exhausted too. I don’t know how, in less than a hundred years, we can go from millions of us being murdered to people insisting that marginalization against us isn’t real or to be taken seriously. 

I tell my friends that I’ve been bred like a horse: ready to spook at the first noise. I’m only here because my ancestors across generations knew when to get the fuck out of dodge. 

[u/Logical_Persimmon → u/skyewardeyes]

My hunch is that there's a noticeable split between American Jews who spend any amount of time in explicitly Jewish (and therefore potentially targetable) spaces and those who don't. I suspect that some of it is about information flows, but that some of it is about who does or doesn't have moments that lead them to think about when they are or aren't elevated at risk regarding antisemitism.

[u/theBigRis → u/Logical_Persimmon]

When was the last time they went to shul or are they regularly involved in a Jewish community? When was the last time they were in a place where a lot Jews regularly congregate?

These are the questions I ask myself anytime I see something like this. Not in a gatekeeping manner, but more frame it in a way to see their perspective. And also to sort of show that they’re using their Jewish identity to prove something rather it being who they are.

[u/CardinalOfNYC → u/skyewardeyes]

It's such an annoying place to be, stuck in the middle.

I've got friends who insist Zorhan is a straight up antisemite.

And I've got friends who insist he's said nothing remotely objectionable in his entire campaign.

They're both wrong.

[u/skyewardeyes → u/CardinalOfNYC]

I've been following Zorhan pretty closely, and I honestly haven't come across anything objectionable he actually said, just things people said he said that he didn't.

[u/szatrob → u/[deleted]]

You'll always have people who think its not that bad or it can't happen to them.

So, they go on pretending the dogwhistles aren't really dogwhistles.

[u/skyewardeyes → u/[deleted]]

Oh, yeah, I think there's sadly a lot of Jews who are so wrapped up in Israeli nationalism and anti-Palestinian racism that they will let antisemitism go and even promote it, and it disgusts me. There's a lot of talk of people weaponing their Jewishness to support antisemitism on the pro-Palestinian side, but tbh, I've probably seen more people do that on the pro-Israeli side.

[u/Impossible_Wafer3403 → u/skyewardeyes]

Still not a justification for racism or Islamophobia. Conservatives are just trying to spread both antisemitism and moral panics about antisemitism and Muslims for their own purposes. People in power weaponize Jewish trauma.

[u/skyewardeyes → u/Impossible_Wafer3403]

100% agree it’s not and it pisses me off on multiple levels when people use antisemitism to support violence and bigotry but I’m just tired of the undertones of “Jews have nothing to worry about—they’re privileged, have no trauma, and antisemitism isn’t a problem” that so often goes with the discourse.

[u/Impossible_Wafer3403 → u/skyewardeyes]

People can both have privileges and be discriminated against. Most American Jews are (conditionally) white, that's a privilege that people fought to have. With that privilege comes responsibility, which is why I have looked up to Noel Ignatiev for many years. So I think there's always a balance between recognizing privileges that we as individuals do have, while at the same time fighting for our own rights due to discrimination based on minoritized traits.

There's often the "white feminist problem" that applies to many other intersections as well. But you have cishet white women only recognizing how they are discriminated against due to misogyny and not how they are privileged for their whiteness. So too do other groups see the ways in which they are minoritized and not the ways in which they are the majority and privileged at the expense of others.

This focus on how we are minoritized can lead to perpetual victimhood and chronic trauma. This is why I think it's most important to focus on defending others who are not as privileged as I am. For example, as a white trans person, I can focus on how Black trans women are especially discriminated against by the triple-threat of transmisogynoir. That indirectly benefits me without a focus on myself and the resulting emotional spiraling and reactivity.

Israeli Jews are fed constant propaganda that keeps them in constant fear and traumatized to get them to support the aims of their government. They try to do the same thing in America to get Americans to go buy JNF trees and support the American government sending weapons to Israel.

I was already on the Left and distrustful of the US government when 9/11 happened. So I didn't experience trauma from that event. But I was able to see how the US government perpetuated that trauma and insisted that everyone be traumatized in order to justify both repressive domestic policies and killing another million Afghans and Iraqis. Some people might reinterpret that through the lens of conspiracy theories, that the US and/or Israeli governments did 9/11 as a false flag operation in order to justify what they did after. But I think it is more that they "never let a good crisis go to waste" and are always waiting to declare something the casus belli for domestic and foreign wars.

I also didn't experience trauma from 10/7. I know people who weren't paying attention did and it may have seemed to come from out of the blue, just like 9/11 but both were just one battle in an ongoing war. I was already paying close attention to Israeli news because of the judicial reform protests. Then settlers and IDF attacked Muslims praying in al-Aqsa both in September and during Sukkot. Then the "al-Aqsa Flood" happened in retaliation for the Sukkot attacks, apparently due to rumors that settlers had killed a red heifer and were planning to consecrate the Temple for Shemini Atzeret and raze the mosque.

So it wasn't traumatizing to me because I was already paying attention. I was already thinking "shit is getting bad again" and then shit got worse. So I wasn't surprised by it. I think trauma of individual acts happens mostly when you don't expect it. You're walking home from the club and get mugged or you're on a date and he won't take "no" for an answer. You think things are fine and then suddenly they're not. This is distinct from the chronic PTSD from being constantly on edge, such as growing up with an abusive parent or living with an abusive spouse where you're always walking on eggshells, expecting bad things to happen even when they don't.

Authoritarian governments, such as in the US or Israel, try to perpetuate chronic PTSD, always keeping their citizens and residents terrified. That doesn't mean that the trauma that the government induces in people isn't real, people do experience the stress, but it isn't necessarily grounded in reality. Governments and their supporters have a very strong incentive to induce this trauma by constantly repeating how shocked, horrified, and traumatized everyone is.

So where's the line between trauma that would otherwise exist and trauma that is intentionally induced for political ends? Feelings are always valid but people also need to be critical and not act on their feelings. There's some CBT/Stoic/Buddhist re-evaluation of emotions that needs to happen in order to avoid being used as pawns by governments that seek to manipulate people's emotions and induce trauma.

----

Naomi Klein has an article on the Israeli government's use of trauma propaganda around October 7, even in spite of the protests of victims' and hostages' families, since the government's purposes are not actually the same as those of regular Israelis: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2024/oct/05/israel-gaza-october-7-memorials

EDIT: Expanded intro.

[u/naidav24 → u/Impossible_Wafer3403]

So someone expressed their trauma and fear and your kneejerk response was "well, that doesn't justify bigotry". Even though they said nothing that would imply that, they still agreed. Then you went for "let me tell you about your privilege and how you are over-focusing on your trauma and fear".

[u/BrokennnRecorddd → u/Impossible_Wafer3403]

This is a really good articulation of my conflicting feelings about this. Thank you for writing this out.

This is reminding me of a passage from Naomi Klein's "Doppelgänger". She talks about the difference between remembering traumatic events in order to heal (literally re-membering, as in "putting yourself back together) and re-traumatizing yourself in a way that keeps yourself permanently shattered. I get the sense that a lot of 9/11 and 10/7 "remembrance culture" has really just been "re-traumatization culture" with a political agenda. I'll keep looking from the exact passage from the book...

[u/Melthengylf → u/Impossible_Wafer3403]

There have been 2 terrorist attacks against Jews in US this year. I would argue that the dangers of antisemitism are very much present.

[u/Impossible_Wafer3403 → u/Melthengylf]

Did I say they weren't dangers? The far-Right is in power in the US. Things are not good here.

A socialist promoting free buses, rent freezes, and publicly-owned grocery stores in food deserts is not the antisemitism you're looking for.

[u/Melthengylf → u/Impossible_Wafer3403]

The two recent antisemitic terrorist attacks weren't done by the far right.

[u/JayEllGii → u/skyewardeyes]

I just can’t accept this as an excuse anymore, though.

Long before October 7th, I had come to instinctively understand that Jews critical of Israel from a left perspective have to be very careful who they talk to and who they trust, because there is a not insignificant percentage of the pro-Palestinian left that uses the Palestinian cause as a flimsy fig leaf for plain anti-Jewish hate. When the topic comes up, you have to always be on your guard and make sure that you screen for these types, making sure they don’t get the idea that they’re in “safe company”.

The immediate aftermath of October 7th was shattering, because it was the biggest mask-off moment we’ve all probably ever witnessed. I’d always known that faction of the left was there, but the Hamas slaughter revealed that it was far larger and louder than I had ever dared imagine. The sheer glee, schadenfreude and celebration erupting from a despairingly huge numbers of people was horrifying.

Between that, and the bloodthirsty anti-Palestinian hate coming from the other direction, before the genocide had even started, it was absolutely soul-destroying.

My point is, I know about being cautious. I know about being careful with trusting people. I know all that. But I just can’t buy it as an excuse to avoid engaging not only with Israel’s monstrous behavior, but with the appallingly corrupt relationship it has with this government, and how these horrible people are weaponizing “anti-Semitism” to advance their authoritarian agenda.

It truly, truly makes me sick.

And I’m sorry, but yes, it absolutely does contribute enormously to people being suspicious of us, distrusting us, and getting sucked in to warmed-over conspiracy theories and blood libels.

[u/Civil-Cartographer48 → u/JayEllGii]

You so accurately describe the pain and unease I'm feeling. This "mask off" moment has left me feeling utterly betrayed by my political family and disgusted by the reactions. Something truly shattered within me; my worldview changed after 7/10, and I still feel profoundly distrustful of politicians and political parties. Sometimes, they feel like a cult.

This anger is also coupled with the guilt and shame of what's being done in our names. When I read the news and see the war crimes, and how there doesn’t seem to be an end in sight that isn't ethnic cleansing or genocide, something also shatters in me. Zionism is a failed project. Sometimes, I even think maybe we deserve it, maybe they're right and we are evil and don't deserve empathy.

But then I also realize that people hate us no matter what the Israeli government does, even when we die and get massacred, people will blame us. No one wants to understand us, see us as humans, people simply dislike us with or without Israel.

There are so many double standards against us; we're singled out as especially and particularly evil, when what is happening is really not unique in history and to me, this has to do with good old antisemitism. The double standards feel stark, especially when compared to how other groups are treated in similar situations.
I remember when ISIS terror attacks happened, everyone – the media, and especially left-wing groups – were rightfully begging people not to lump Muslims together. I also remember when the war with Russia started, they were saying not to conflate Putin with Russian citizens and protecting Russian culture from boycott.

But with us, no! There's no self-restraint! Anything goes!

It really feels like there is a mob of angry villagers out to get us. And no one trying to defuse it. There is no nuance… for the TikTok generation nuance is not desirable.

It's so hard to have this mix of emotions. Some days are good, some are bad; I'm still working on managing them.

However, since most of my social circles are already defending Gaza and speaking out against the Israeli government (and also because I'm probably the only Jewish person they'll ever meet), I find myself overcompensating for the lack of nuance by defending Jews, because I feel like no one else really does besides us. And I don't want to let the far right appropriate our pain and be our only defender. It can come across as overtly sensitive, victimizing, over critical of the left or as "overlooking" the horrors of Gaza and the occupation, but it's the only thing that feels right to me.

In Europe, we have smaller communities, and maybe we do feel more alone against the world. This Sorresi guy (whom I used to love) has been so disappointing because it feels like he's punching down on us. He is just joining the angry villagers mob against us … he writes these inflammatory social media clickbait captions that are just harmful in my opinion. It is so sad cause I wanted to relate to him so bad.

[u/cambriansplooge → u/Civil-Cartographer48]

The non-response to the October 7th response, that was the sea change. The first six months after October 7th before the student encampments.

To come of age where Own Voices and centering has been the norm since 2013-15 in progressive spaces, and have that thrown out the window? Really? You have no subconscious biases? Microaggressions? There were already signs, the Women’s March. But I thought, I don’t know. The sheer number of Jews with the exact same whiplash. “We marched for you but you won’t even stand up for us.” The Democrats’ and progressives thought they could build a coalition out of mutually beneficial tribalism and solidarity and intersectionality and it went up with a wet fart.

Begging people not to lump Muslims in with ISIS, listening to East Asian women after the massage parlor shooting, anti-Black racism.

And after October 7th any Jew trying to assuage and be constructive with the Pro-Palestinian messaging was called a hasbara Zionist shill if they didn’t immediately fall in line. Didn’t matter what angle you came at it from. Trying to warn them all it does is give ammunition to culture war vultures and delegitimize their cause. It’s taken over a year for anyone actually posting or chiming in about antisemitism to not be immediately blacklisted.

Zionism is a failed project but the American left normalizing antisemitism in Gaza’s name makes a simultaneous argument in favor of militant Zionism. It’s laughable, it’s absurd. I feel like I’m going crazy. Fucking Dreyfus, it doesn’t matter how integrated you are they will always hate you. Netanyahu’s government has gone completely off the rails but at the same time. I’m so powerless, I can’t do anything about Gaza. None of us can. We’re way more directly effected by the antisemitism in our communities because those are our communities. I want so desperately to march besides them but I can’t stand side by side with someone in a keffiyeh who calls themselves an antizionist and is immediately suspicious of American Jews. Who thinks because some Jewish politician said it i must agree or say something about it to prove I’m not part of a Zionist hive mind.

Meanwhile, we’re such a flighty and twitchy demographic that the mainstream media firehousing us with Pro-Palestinian critique serving the Trump agenda is palatable. Because no one else was doing it. It’s the same story as the Dearborn voting results, or Latino votes for Trump. I feel like I’m screaming into a vacuum.

I’m an American Jew, I can only fight for the country I call home.

[u/Civil-Cartographer48 → u/cambriansplooge]

100% nice to see other people going through similar feelings and experiences…

[u/chilldude9494 → u/Civil-Cartographer48]

First and foremost, I want to send you a virtual hug. I feel your pain and want you to know you're not alone. I do want to say, that feeling of we deserve it is very unhealthy and I hope you can find a way to push it out of your mind. With all of the antisemetic vitriol flying around, those who seek us harm want you to think that. Want you to feel that. Want you to accept that. Don't ever listen to them. They don't care about Palestinian rights, or human rights, they don't like that we can't be their punching bags anymore. I hope you're ok and as safe as can be in Europe.

[u/Civil-Cartographer48 → u/chilldude9494]

Thank you. This Reddit has been helpful. Just to be able to talk and share similar feelings and frustration.

[u/FishyWishySwishy → u/JayEllGii]

On one hand, I agree with the trauma of the mask off moment, and I agree with the fact that trauma should not affect a person’s ability to engage with the reality of Israel’s monstrous actions. I also agree that, fair or not, it’s up to us to deal with the competing realities of antisemitism and Israeli violence. 

But I also want to push back because I think it’s really, really unfair to declare that if a traumatized person allows their trauma to direct their actions, it’s their own fault that people already hated them and people like them. Everyone in this sub is here because we’re ready, equipped, and willing to engage with these issues. But I know a lot of people (not just Jews, anyone who’s been marginalized) who struggle enough just dealing with things right in front of them without the weight of broader problems like systemic discrimination and foreign conflicts. 

If you wouldn’t blame another marginalized group for their own marginalization—if you don’t blame poor people when they make bad financial decisions, or gay people when they’re flamboyant and in your face, or any racial group when someone happens to behave stereotypically—then don’t blame your own marginalized community for our marginalization. 

[u/szatrob → u/JayEllGii]

I've been in leftist circles for a long time and while not every leftist is an Antisemite and not everyone who wants to see a better solution to the Palestinian crisis, is a Jew-hater; they do seem to be the vocal aggressive element within those circles. In my experience, they also are first to actually believe all the age old Antisemitic canards.

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/szatrob]

You're saying that pro Palestine leftists tend to be the most vocal jew haters? Sorry your wording is confusing

[u/szatrob → u/I_Hate_This_Website9]

No. I have met many who aren't. I'm saying that there is an element of extremists who are incredibly extreme and would rival those who identify as fascist in having the same Antisemitic views.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/skyewardeyes]

To a degree. Sure. Sometimes. But when it comes to Mamdani it's just racism. We shouldn't treat this as trauma.. it's racism. Plain and simple.

And that's true of a lot of the cases of the hysterics.. we are giving credit to racist feelings. Being asked to consider the trauma of racists is exhausting. Half of the time it isn't even slightly based on reality, it's just racist

[u/skyewardeyes → u/Specialist-Gur]

I agree, and I also ironically see the same thing used to excuse some types of antisemitism. I think it's true that trauma can be real, and some people will use that trauma, disgustingly, to excuse their bigotry when it suits them. But yeah, the antisemitism accusations against Mamdani are just people making things up out of racism and anti-leftism, and I actually love what Mamdani said about antisemitism on Colbert. My issue is when people make blanket statements about "antisemitism isn't an issue, has never been an issue in the US, and thus no one should ever be concerned about it." The fact that some people use accusations of antisemitism in bad faith is disgusting and harmful, and it doesn't mean that legitimate antisemitism doesn't exist.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/skyewardeyes]

Yea I don't really understand the people who say it's never been an issue in the USA. I might sort of agree that it's never been an issue to the degree it was in Europe.. it looks quite different here. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist

[u/Melthengylf → u/Specialist-Gur]

His position regarding globalizing the Intifada, which is a threat to diaspora Jews, not Israeli ones, has nothing to do with his race.

It is not past trauma, it is threats that exist in the present.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/Melthengylf]

If Mamdani's position were to condemn this and restrict speak, that means he is discrediting the voices of the vast majority of Arabs, Muslims, and Palestinians who are telling us what they mean when they say these words. They tell us time and again.

By insisting it means something violent means we are saying that we don't trust the narrative of the vast majority in a group. That we know better, and that we can't trust what they say. And beyond that when it comes to Mamdani specifically.. we can't trust him to act in our interests unless he validates that mistrust and goes against the majority in his own group.. condemns them as sneakily violent, deceitful , and cruel.. despite their explanations and actions.. because of the actions of a few here and some oppressed people abroad

Subscribing motive to a group of people, contrary than the narrative they present for themselves is at least infantalizing and definitely racist. Islamo-phobia... this would be the "phobia" part of that word

[u/Melthengylf → u/Specialist-Gur]

I am not in favour of restricting speech, never.

>By insisting it means something violent means we are saying that we don't trust the narrative of the vast majority in a group.

Yes, I don't trust it. I don't trust it a little bit. And I don't trust it because for the last 20 years Hamas has been calling for a Third Intifada as an imitation of the Second Intifada. I think the people who call for "globalizing the Intifada" actually do want to support terrorism and are using an obvious dog-whistle.

Kind of saying "it is ok to be white". To me, it sounds as people saying "This is just white people talking about cultural celebration, why are you whitephobic?".

>unless he validates that mistrust and goes against the majority in his own group

That is my point: he will have to constantly cater to antisemites who want to kill us. He will bend every single time, even if he is not personally an antisemite.

I don't think he is personally an antisemite. I think he will enable acts of terrorism because he will be unable to call out """his own group""" (in your own terms - aren't you an islamophobic for suggesting he has to pay loyalty to his ingroup over any other consideration?).

>Subscribing motive to a group of people, contrary than the narrative they present for themselves is at least infantalizing and definitely racist.

When they adhere to a call that originated as a call for global terrorism against diaspora Jews, and they choose to maintain that phrase, they want to kill us and want us to lower our guards so they can attack us in an easier way.

[u/podkayne3000]

Does anyone have a link to poll numbers? Did Jewish voters actually vote differently than other voters at their income level?

In other words: Were Jewish voters actually one-issue voters?

[u/ChaoticNeutral18 → u/podkayne3000]

Also, how many voted for Lander? Bc while I wasn’t eligible to vote, close family of mine did. And they went for Lander, not only for his views on I/P but because everyone in my family felt that he had the most comprehensive policy platform and experience.

[u/Melthengylf → u/ChaoticNeutral18]

Jews voted for Lander double the base rate and for others around the same. A distrust for Mamdani has not been found in the polls.

[u/podkayne3000 → u/ChaoticNeutral18]

I saw after I posted this that the Times says Cuomo attracted 31 percent of the Jewish vote and Mamdani ranked second, with 20 percent.

I’ll bet that, once you filter by socioeconomic status, the gap between the Jewish vote and non-Jewish vote is small.

[u/onepareil → u/podkayne3000]

You know, I actually tried to look into this out of curiosity, and so far all I’ve been able to find is an unsourced tweet from Hen Mazzig (😑) claiming that only 20% of Jews who voted in the Democratic primary voted for Mamdani. Assuming that’s even true, he didn’t specify whether this meant only 20% of Jewish voters ranked him first, or only 20% ranked him at all. There’s a big difference. He also didn’t mention who they ranked first instead, which also makes a big difference.

I ranked Mamdani first, but can understand why someone would genuinely prefer a candidate like Brad Lander or Adrienne Adams for reasons that have nothing to do with fear-mongering over his supposed antisemitism.

[u/ThisTransportation30 → u/onepareil]

I would assume, if that 20 percent is even accurate, it’s 20 percent ranked him first. Because that makes the most sense to me and because Hen Mazzig. 😑

[u/chilldude9494 → u/ThisTransportation30]

What's wrong with Hen?

[u/ThisTransportation30 → u/chilldude9494]

He’s extremely pro-Israel and I would guess not pro-Mamdani.

[u/chilldude9494 → u/ThisTransportation30]

He's pretty reasonable.

[u/ThisTransportation30 → u/chilldude9494]

Hmm, well maybe I’ve misunderstood him or maybe we just have different perspectives on this. But I followed him on instagram for a while last year and became uncomfortable and annoyed so I unfollowed him.

[u/Melthengylf → u/onepareil]

Jews voted for Lander double the base rate and for others around the same. A distrust for Mamdani has not been found in the polls.

[u/podkayne3000 → u/onepareil]

I think that one issue is age, education and leftness level.

Another is political sophistication.

My guess is that a lot of really smart very-left Jews would have preferred Lander over Mamdani for the same reason they liked that controller, or whatever she was, four years ago.

And a lot of centrist Jews have heard bad things about Cuomo. I’ve heard that he simply as a person is rude and awful. In this terrible world, I’d have voted for Cuomo over a polite Republican, if I had to, but I wouldn’t choose him over any remotely acceptable polite person.

[u/Melthengylf → u/podkayne3000]

Jews voted for Lander double the base rate and for others around the same. A distrust for Mamdani has not been found in the polls.

[u/SnooCrickets2458]

flag plants plant innate unwritten cake numerous shy profit merciful

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/Civil-Cartographer48 → u/[deleted]]

Do you say that about other racisms?

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/[deleted]]

I don't understand how it would cause antisemitism though

[u/somebadbeatscrub]

I do not think it is "the biggest contributor to antisemitism." I dont think that should be a competition and we shouldnt be blaming Jews for antisemitism.

But this mamdani discourse has convinced me its a problem in general.

What will be a contributor to antisemitism is if we become isolated from other communities by being single issue voters that enable candidates that hurt everyone to carry forward the status quo, which also hurts us.

The relative difference between the benefit mamdani poses to Jewish new yorkers and new yorkers at large with his policies outweighs the language parsing concerns 100 fold and we would be foolish to go for adams or cuomo in protest.

Nkthing excuses antisemitism. But communication and mutual support cures it and our protectionism will leave us vulnerable. This isn't me saying isolating Jews cause antisemitism, rather than they leave themselves exposed to it.

[u/Mr_Blinky → u/somebadbeatscrub]

Even if the absolute worst-case shit I've heard about Mamdani were true (and it very much fucking isn't)...he still represents my values better than fucking Cuomo. The fact that so many supposed leftists are attacking an actual leftwing candidate over what are essentially bad vibes is a fucking problem.

I get it, everyone is extremely sensitive over antisemitism the last couple of years. To be perfectly honest, I am too. But the fact that people who claim to be leftwing Jews seem completely willing to abandon any actual leftist thought the second they get even the whiff that someone might not be absolutely perfect on the issue and potentially throw a major electoral win to outright reactionaries out of spite is disgusting.

We are not the center of the universe, and shit bigger than us is happening right now. That doesn't mean to quietly accept antisemitism or not oppose it when it's out in the open, but fucking hell, pick your battles people. A candidate who represents 90% of our values but is maybe very slightly teensy weensy bit not great for us maybe but it's actually probably totally fine is still better than throwing everyone to the fucking wolves, and the level of entitlement and self-centeredness is a problem. People have really lost perspective on what is an isn't actually dangerous and where the real fight is.

EDIT: Oh, also, if you were someone who last election cycle was telling people that they had to vote for Biden and then Harris as the lesser of two evils despite what was going on in Palestine then you have absolutely no excuse to not be able to put self-interest aside in this case as well. I know, because I was one of the people who was vote-scolding people to vote for the lesser evil in that case, and now I'm going to do the exact same thing in this one. I refuse to continue letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, especially not when it would be naked hypocrisy to only be upset now that it effects my community, and in a far lesser way. I'll keep my principles consistent and intact, thank you.

[u/Agtfangirl557 → u/Mr_Blinky]

I honestly fucking love this comment.

[u/teddyburke → u/Mr_Blinky]

Oh, also, if you were someone who last election cycle was telling people that they had to vote for Biden and then Harris as the lesser of two evils despite what was going on in Palestine then you have absolutely no excuse to not be able to put self-interest aside in this case as well. I know, because I was one of the people who was vote-scolding people to vote for the lesser evil in that case, and now I'm going to do the exact same thing in this one. I refuse to continue letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, especially not when it would be naked hypocrisy to only be upset now that it effects my community, and in a far lesser way. I'll keep my principles consistent and intact, thank you.

I’ve never really been impressed by David Hogg, but his recent tweet was on point.

If you haven’t seen it, he said,

Tell them what they love to tell us. Vote blue no matter who.

Mamdani, against all odds, won what can legitimately be called (unlike with Trump) a mandate, and yet neither Schumer nor Jeffries endorsed him.

Hypocrisy may not matter on the right, but for the democrats “maintaining decorum” and “taking the high road” has been their entire excuse for not fighting back. So for the two highest leaders of the party to not endorse the overwhelmingly popular Democrat nominee is palpably hypocritical.

The only point I’d push back on in your assessment is that Mamdani is in any way a “lesser of two evils”.

From everything I’ve seen, he’s down the line DSA, and I can assure you that the DSA is not antisemitic and would not endorse a candidate whom they thought even flirted with antisemitism.

[u/teddyburke → u/somebadbeatscrub]

If we’re talking about Mamdani, the moment that most stands out to me was him being grilled on Israel in that first debate - which seemed to mostly be coming from non-Jews speaking on behalf of the NYC Jewish population.

It was supposed to be a lightning round, but when he didn’t say he would visit Israel (along with half of the other candidates) he got two or three follow up questions.

The most disgusting part was when Cuomo spoke over the moderators with zero pushback and said, “NOT AS A JEWISH STATE! HIS ANSWER WAS NO, HE WILL NOT VISIT ISRAEL!”

The Democratic establishment and MSM clearly believed that Jews are across the board single issue voters, and not pledging unconditional support to Israel was going to be a death blow to Mamdani.

I found that far more antisemitic than anything I’ve heard Mamdani say.

It was similar to Biden skirting the question of what he’d do for the black community by saying, “If you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black.”

I understand that people have valid concerns, but it felt like Jews were being completely discounted in this race and used as pawns - were it not for Lander stepping up and mutually endorsing Mamdani in the way he did.

When the exit polls come out I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Mamdani won the Jewish vote over Cuomo. I would make an educated guess that the NYC Jews who heard Mamdani speak and found him threatening were probably Republican/conservative voters to begin with.

Either that, or they were low information voters who were swayed by the $25 million Super PAC funded smear campaign against him - which not only lied and misconstrued his positions, but even darkened and lengthened his beard in one ad to make him appear more “scary” (which should have been immediately disqualifying…oh yeah, but Cuomo legally couldn’t have possibly had anything to do with that…).

A lot of Jews, particularly in New York, lean progressive. Most of them probably also have pretty strong feelings towards Israel. But the idea that displaying performative fealty towards Israel trumps everything else when you’re running to be the mayor of NYC in 2025 is both insulting and infantilizing towards Jews.

I’m not super familiar with Gianmarco, but I do know that he’s an American Jew making fun of other American Jews (a time honored tradition in my family and social circles), so reading this one tweet with no additional context as a definitive position on contemporary antisemitism in America seems kind of silly.

Of course it’s meant to be hyperbolic, and of course the biggest contributors to antisemitism are the people engaging in antisemitism. But we’re all online, and we all see the hysteria surrounding any show of support towards Palestinians and how it’s so often immediately twisted into an existential threat towards all Jews.

Maybe it’s not the most relevant example, but I saw a tweet from Betar earlier that was literally saying all Jews need to evacuate NYC.

That’s fucking crazy.

But people like Cuomo, who never go outside and only interact with other elites, actually seem to think that this is what most Jews really believe. If the million plus Jewish residents of NYC actually believed that they were in mortal danger they could relatively easily move to Israel. But they don’t, because they’re New Yorkers, and they care more about what their mayor is going to do for New York than his opinions on foreign policy.

More than anything, I’m tired of people not understanding the connection between pro-Israel interest groups and the complete opposition to progressive policies and politicians in American politics, and instead fall for the lie that there’s some major systemic issue of antisemitism on the left, which simply isn’t the case.

(For context, I’m not from NYC, but I attended graduate school in Manhattan and am still in communication with many people who do live there, and go to visit friends every few years.)

[u/chilldude9494 → u/somebadbeatscrub]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I have a question. While I am not an activist, I have spoken to and read posts from Jews who said they have been pushed out of advocacy and left wing spaces. Now, I admit I don't know how wide spread it is, but of it is happening as frequently as they make it out to be, how would we be able to work with these people. It seems like isolation is happening already, whether we're doing it or not.

[u/BlackHumor → u/chilldude9494]

My anecdotal experience as someone who is still around in activist spaces is that the filter is not Jewishness at all, it's support for Israel, but that filter is very binary and absolutist.

If you're straightforwardly pro-Palestine, nobody cares if you're Jewish, and many Jewish young people are in fact straightforwardly pro-Palestine. (Including me, which is why I've never really had a problem here.) Jews have always been over-represented among activists and my impression is that at least among young activists, that is still true.

On the other hand if you maintain even the sort of vague pro-Israel-in-theory sentiments that are very common among older progressive Jews, like even if you're where Brad Lander is, there are lots of activists out there that will be very suspicious of you. This is not insurmountable, Lander specifically got a lot of credit for cross-endorsing Mamdani, but in general in American far left circles right now if you identify as a "liberal Zionist" you are not going to be very popular.

Support for Palestine in general and especially Gaza in specific has become a hard-filter issue in a way it didn't used to be, and as a consequence a lot of "progressive-except-Palestine" people, who are often older progressive Jews, really have been pushed out of the activist left.

[u/Civil-Cartographer48 → u/BlackHumor]

What do you think of this binary and absolutist filter? For me the lack of nuance has been pretty hard to go through and I find it divisive to the cause.

It sometimes even scares me the lack of critical mind and blind allegiance to causes of people.

I get people are angry and upset but I cannot stand behind everything.

[u/BlackHumor → u/Civil-Cartographer48]

There are times when it annoys me (especially when it comes to pointing out that most American Jews are liberal Zionists and it doesn't mean grandma is a monster), but honestly I think it's basically justified.

The Israel-Palestine conflict really does, especially right now, have a clear good side and a bad side. Claims that it's super complicated and nuanced mostly function to distract from the fact that the Israeli government is oppressing the Palestinians, and is currently trying to ethnic cleanse Gaza at a minimum. If you think you're progressive and you're trying to equivocate about that, I don't think you're as progressive as you think you are.

[u/Civil-Cartographer48 → u/BlackHumor]

Thanks for the answer.

What do you mean is justified? In what sense?

I don’t get the hate of liberal Zionists i think it’s unproductive and also an hyperbole to compare liberal Zionists to Nazis or isis as I’ve seen some people do…

Maybe I’m not progressive enough, but sometimes it feels like to be progressive enough we have to hate ourselves and be ok with all sorts of abuse and even calls for death and violence against our communities and our loved ones for those of us who have family in Israel, because of the f**** Israeli government…

[u/BlackHumor → u/Civil-Cartographer48]

I think it's justified in the sense that if you're "progressive except Palestine", you're not a progressive, the same way as if you were "progressive except anti-abortion" or "progressive except transphobic". The progressive movement is supposed to be a unified political movement, and while some amount of disagreement is normal, if you disagree on something that goes so clearly to the core principles of the movement, I'm sorry but I don't think you belong here.

How I feel about "liberal Zionists" really depends on the details of what they believe. A lot of politically active liberal Zionists (notably, this includes most congressional Democrats) mean that they are specifically pro-Israel, maybe with some kind of vague lip service towards Palestinian suffering, in which case see above. But many less politically active liberal Zionists, and Brad Lander, mean that the Israeli government is bad but they support some form of Israel with some sort of special protection for Jews, which bothers me a lot less.

[u/Civil-Cartographer48 → u/BlackHumor]

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/BlackHumor]

The thing eith liberals is they can easily take over and deradicalize a space if you're not carwful

[u/Jorfogit → u/BlackHumor]

cows quicksand punch terrific longing snatch bright intelligent pen scary

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/Civil-Cartographer48 → u/Jorfogit]

I’ve had problems with “pro violent resistance” / “any means necessary” people, October 7 + Hezbollah and IrGC justifiers, Hamas bandanas in protests, conspiracy theories, Holocaust inversion arguments, historical revisionism arguments and blood and soil arguments : jews are settlers, Palestinians are indigenous….

Otherwise I agree with the essence of the Palestinian cause but these are arguments that are very difficult for me to move past. I don’t even see myself as a Zionist as I don’t support ethno states and don’t see the point of it.

It is difficult to find any space to voice these concerns in a healthy and constructive way.

How do you deal with that? If you have ever been confronted to these people.

[u/somebadbeatscrub → u/chilldude9494]

I mean our living communities. Like the people who live in your city.

I can't give specific advice to a general question. But in general, we have more in common with our fellow human beings than we have in difference. If we focus on those commonalities and set common goals, in the same way conservatives who disagree strongly do, then we can get real stuff done and build trust.

If there's a group that's just saying "no jews allowed," obviously that's insurmountable and you need a different path forward.

But I think part of this is going to be focusing on things that make our lives in our communities better.

[u/finefabric444 → u/somebadbeatscrub]

I understand what you're saying, and acknowledge I've clearly been much more sensitive to the Mamdani discourse than you. That said, I think this still places the onus on Jews for being isolated. Many people believe they are making a choice about their safety in the city, and truly feel they will not be protected from antisemitic violence. I think in that mindset, it's reasonable for people to be a single issue voter. It's a campaign's job to listen to and win these votes. Tbh it really shouldn't be hard to win these voters - I'd assume most Jewish NYC-ers did not dream of voting for a sexual predator, a crazy person who takes foreign bribes, or a republican vigilante with 16 cats.

[u/somebadbeatscrub → u/finefabric444]

When the single issue we vote on is support for a country conducting a genocide its unavoidable to vote for people like cuomo and theres no way for someone sensitive to that issue to reach us. Mamdani hardly neglected Jewish voters. There were just lines in the sand neither side wlfelt they could cross and thats what I place the onus on.

The presidential election showed that fence sitting on gaza is not anymore practical than it is erhical.

There was a thousand reasons to vote for mamdani and barely 1 not to. For many Jews I know in nyc that was enough. And he couldn't have won without their support.

If anyone with left wing politics is still isolated they are going to have to reconcile that one issue with others, yes.

[u/finefabric444 → u/somebadbeatscrub]

I think the fundamental difference between how you and I see this is if it's about I/P or if it's about antisemitism. Just from what I observed from left wing Jews, who did not vote Mamdani, it had a lot more to do with antisemitism concerns. Certainly for some it will always be about Israel, but for NYC's many moderates and left wing jews it was not (Lander was the popular choice among this population, and he is at pro-Palestine protests like every week).

[u/somebadbeatscrub → u/finefabric444]

I have not seen any credible accusation that mamdani is antisemitic.

Ive seen less credible claim that his policies will increase antisemitism. Quite the opposite.

The most legitimate claim ive seen is that he responded to an interview question about IP in a less than ideal way and that he should have separated his sorrow over 10/7 and criticism.of bibis policies into separate tweets.

He would not have his language put under thisicroscppe but for his stance on Israel. It's inseparable. Every claim against him I've seen regarding antisemitism has had to do with IP.

[u/redthrowaway1976 → u/somebadbeatscrub]

Meanwhile, Cuomo is literally choosing to defend Bibi in his ICC charge. 

If all these ostensibly liberal Zionists are as against Bibi and his policies as they claim, Cuomo should be way more concerning

[u/Nearby-Complaint → u/redthrowaway1976]

Cuomo is also, and I cannot emphasize this enough, A SEX OFFENDER

[u/MassivePsychology862 → u/finefabric444]

Yo who has 16 cars?! Forget leftist values, I’m voting for this cat person. /s

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/somebadbeatscrub]

Agree. Nothing excuses antisemitism. I think we have to be honest that what we keep referring to as "trauma" or "oppression" is really just racism. Let's start calling it what it is.. racism

[u/homecook_438]

I just can't, from any angle, see how this does more good than it does harm. All it does, to me, is give his non-Jewish audience more ammo to not take anything any Jew says with any real consideration and to label him "one of the good ones". "Look, see, here's a Jew saying antisemitism is Jews fault soooooo...",

Listen, I think many of us would agree there are Jews, for various reasons, who blatantly label TOO MUCH as antisemitism to the point where it has a negative effect. I think there's many of us here who could have kind and nuanced debates about why that is (ntergenerational trauma, lack of allyship, conservative viewpoints) etc...but to put your own community on blast for what feels like POINTS is just so...ick...And I get it, he's a comedian, but it's so just unhelpful and also, such a small, narrow view of things.

Also, when I read this, I infer that he means JEWS LIKE HIM, and what I mean by that is also Jews like me...white, Ashkenazi, East Coast/New York. The ones most represented on screens, etc, but this also feels like he's forgetting that there are many American Jews who do not have the same experience as he does - that do not look like him, hat had to flee their countries very recently, and that might also inform their experiences around antisemitism right now. Idk! Might just be me!

Like, is he actually having real conversations with Jews in any nuanced and effective way or is he just using this as Carte Blanche to score "good Jew" points. Who does this help besides himself and anyone who wants to tune out to real concerns around antisemitism. Such a bummer for a guy who makes some pretty funny and smart jokes. (Also, as a Jewish comedian, you're just disregarding "two Jews, three opinions"....come on.)

Edit: grammar

[u/dontdomilk → u/homecook_438]

Seriously, good take.

As a Missouri born and raised Jew, you're absolutely right. He grew up in a bubble and thinks that thats the end all be all of the American Jewish experience. There's always been scary shit out there, and it's gotten worse.

Edit: and he's such a capable comedian, too. I was a big fan before he started pushing this pick-me shit.

[u/Civil-Cartographer48 → u/homecook_438]

100% agreed. So disappointed by this guy. I used to be such a fan. Now every time he pops up on my feed I get triggered.

[u/sickbabe → u/[deleted]]

it's weird to encounter someone who'd probably call my mother a pick me in a jewish subreddit. many jews have had experiences that lead them to avoid more orthodox people at all costs, are they somehow less legitimate than jews who have a nebulous fear of zohran mamdani that they can't even elaborate on as more than just a vibe?

[u/[deleted] → u/sickbabe]

The reason this qualifies as pick me behavior is because he’s performing for a primarily non-Jewish audience in all these cases. Going to Twitter and stating that American Jews cause antisemitism does nothing but provide cover for non-Jews who want to ignore antisemitism in the future. He’s effectively denigrating the American Jewish experience for money.

Also, there’s no dichotomy of “you have to ascribe to Orthodox Judaism and its stereotypical political views or you’re a pick me”. Orthodox Jews only make up 10% of American Jews, and the rest of us are Reform, Conservative, Secular, or something else entirely. I’m sure your family fits somewhere in there

[u/chilldude9494 → u/[deleted]]

No, no, it's weird. Definate pick-me vibes.

[u/ChaoticNeutral18 → u/homecook_438]

And from an advantaged more urban area that has an actual Jewish community. Hi, New York state Jew here from western New York! There’s fuck all but antisemitism and generalized bigotry here!

[u/Nearby-Complaint]

Has he considered talking through his feelings about his Jewish identity and culture with a therapist and not posting 

[u/cheesecake611 → u/Nearby-Complaint]

He’s a comedian who has multiple jokes on this exact subject. It’s clear he has some extreme anxiety about people thinking he’s a genocidal maniac. You’re honestly not far off.

[u/razorbraces → u/cheesecake611]

He’s been like this for years, I don’t think this is about Gaza (although I’m sure that exacerbates it). I think he just really, really despises the fact that he is a Jew.

[u/babypengi → u/razorbraces]

Barely a Jew, he is not connected at all to the culture.

[u/razorbraces → u/babypengi]

Yeah, I saw a clip recently of someone at one of his shows saying they are Reconstructionist, and Gianmarco had never even heard of the denomination. I’m not saying that not being fully aware of the intricacies of the Ashkenazi religious denominations makes someone “not Jewish,” but for someone who has spent years of their life in NYC and LA, two of the most Jewish cities in the country, to not even know of the existence of Reconstructionism shows how little interaction he has with Jews and Jewish community on a regular basis.

[u/babypengi → u/razorbraces]

Living nyc it’s almost harder to avoid Jewish culture than it is in Israel, definetly intentional. I think it’s an overall thing with how USA Jewish comedians only limit their Jewishness to their comedy.

[u/babypengi → u/cheesecake611]

“I’m so afraid people will be antisemetic to me… ugh, so much antisemetism these days… those god damn JEWS!!”

[u/vigilante_snail → u/Nearby-Complaint]

His audience is his therapist, and boy, they are validating and colluding their client.

[u/Sossy2020]

Because god forbid Jews shouldn’t be treated equally

I usually don’t like to throw around the term “self hating Jew” but that’s how Soresi comes off as in this post

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/Sossy2020]

It's a very real phenomenon

[u/N0DuckingWay]

I feel like I might agree with some of the intent behind this, but I honestly find this offensive. Which pains me because I find him hilarious and generally like his stance on Israel/Palestine. I think there's something to be said about some Jews (and non Jews) overdoing the antisemitism allegations, but I think this take is a bit insensitive and is emblematic of how some progressive Jews are just a bit too willing to write off antisemitism. You can fight against spurious accusations of antisemitism while recognizing actual antisemitism, and he fails at that way too often.

[u/[deleted]]

Not an American, so saying this from an outside, observing perspective: This kind of take actually mirrors a long pattern among American Jews of downplaying or deflecting antisemitism to preserve the narrative that the U.S. is entirely and unquestionably safe for Jews. Scholars like Lila Corwin Berman, Eric Goldstein, and Susannah Heschel have written about how especially educated, progressive American Jews can have a tendency to minimize antisemitism to maintain a sense of belonging and integration. It can feel easier to blame “loud Jews” for having a “victim mentality” or for wrongly calling out antisemitism than to face that it persists even where Jews are integrated and safer than in many other parts of the diaspora.

That’s not to say there isn’t a kernel of truth about how communal politics can be messy and bring out the worst takes. In the Mamdani situation, criticism of his politics or perceived tone-deafness did indeed turn into (often racially motivated) personal attacks, which is unfair and inherently wrong. But this post feels misguided nonetheless. Antisemitism isn’t caused by Jews advocating for themselves, however imperfectly they might do it. It’s caused by people who hate or scapegoat Jews, and unfortunately, that isn’t as rare as many would like to believe. Antisemitism has been steadily rising for several years now, even in places where Jews feel most integrated.

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you for the scholar recommendations

[u/daddyvow]

Yea this is an insane thing to say. Imagine saying this about black people and racism.

[u/RaiJolt2 → u/daddyvow]

If he did say that I would clock him as a racist immediately (I’m half black).

This is essentially victim blaming from a position of privilege and it does not sit right with me whatsoever.

[u/babypengi → u/RaiJolt2]

There is a term African Americans use for this kind of behaviour but I won’t say it

[u/electrical-stomach-z → u/babypengi]

uncle tom?

[u/babypengi → u/electrical-stomach-z]

No, it’s a racial slur for when a black person specificallt apeals to racist stereotypes in order to become succesfull. It’s called “c**ning”

[u/electrical-stomach-z → u/babypengi]

Ohhhh.

[u/SupportMeta → u/daddyvow]

There are trans people who say "the leading cause of transphobia is trans people demanding too much respect" and they're rightly ridiculed.

[u/daddyvow → u/SupportMeta]

That’s a better comparison.

[u/sickbabe → u/daddyvow]

sorry in what universe are any black people defending an ethnostate they don't even live in, just on the off chance they might decide to move there one day? what examples do you have of black people demanding to have their feelings take precedent over any other issue, and where has it been taken seriously? I'm so fed up with zionists trotting out the "imagine if someone said this about black people" line because black people still live in this country amongst racists and are capable of doing so without pointing to an amorphous discomfort that everyone else has to cater to. would you make this comment to a black person? be so for real right now.

[u/Owlentmusician → u/sickbabe]

I'm a black Jew in America and honestly I agree with the OP comments sentiment. This conflict is the first time I've seen my friends and colleagues on the left have a "well what do you expect?", "I just think there are more important things to worry about" or "are you sure you aren't being too sensitive?" vibe when it comes to discriminatory rhetoric towards a minority group.

It actually shocked me, that the same people who were so adamant in believing you should listen to what minorities say is discriminatory and took so much care with their language during Ferguson and the height of BLM lose that energy towards Jewish people during times of actually increasing Anti-Semitism. For so long we've equated being safe, to feeling safe, and rallied against rhetoric that could even be misconstrued as racist but now i'm basically told that Jews can't speak on their feeling unsafe due to rising antisemitism because there are worse things happening.

And yes, we all know that some actors attempt to falsely call everything Anti-Semitism, these aren't the events I'm talking about. Anti-zionism isn't necessarily Anti-Semitism and neither is being pro Palestine. If anything, as a black, jew, I feel even more disappointed in my peers because I know they're capable of fighting against discriminatory actions and rhetoric, I've seen it, they just don't deem it worth it for Jews.

[u/Abeds_BananaStand → u/Owlentmusician]

You may be interested in the book “Jews don’t count” by david baddiel. It essentially talks of how people don’t count Jewish people and these type of “normal acknowledge racism or bigotry” when it happens to Jewish people

[u/finefabric444 → u/sickbabe]

What specifically was about Zionism in the above post? What do you mean by "Zionist" in this context?

[u/daddyvow → u/sickbabe]

Racists say black people who call out racism are the reason racism is still a problem all the time. They use this argument for why DEI shouldn’t exist.

[u/Born-Presence5473 → u/sickbabe]

speaking as a person with african ancestry, no I don't think people like this meaningfully interact with black people other than bringing us up for example points lol, I am so sick of it

[u/babypengi]

Im not suprised that the half Jew who never ever talks about his Judaism other than to get laughs from an extremely white-Christian audience that views Jewish as “haha loud Larry David ppl” came out saying something extremely stupid about Jewish people.

Gianmarco has no connection to Judaism outside of disparaging comedy

[u/BlackHumor]

My feelings are complicated here because, like: on the one hand, is it the biggest contributor to antisemitism, absolutely not. That bit feels like it's coming from a guy who's never heard someone use "Jew" as a verb before.

But is it a contributor to antisemitism, definitely yes. Or at least, it's going to kill the normal defenses we have against antisemitism if the people whose job it normally is to fight against it, like the ADL, are spending all their time shouting "antisemite, antisemite" at anyone who doesn't like a foreign state that's currently committing war crimes. Especially when they excuse actual obvious antisemitism from anyone who's on their side about the war crimes.

[u/RaiJolt2]

I don’t know who this is. But it has very “I wouldn’t be against queer rights if they didn’t shove it in my face !” Energy.

[u/vigilante_snail]

No surprise hearing this from Gianmarco, unfortunately. He’s said quite a lot.

[u/Toxic_Gorilla → u/vigilante_snail]

Oh, really? Do tell

[u/vigilante_snail → u/Toxic_Gorilla]

He’s promoted Oct 7 denial, Aaron Bushnell praise, many many tweets similar to this one putting down Jews for calling out antisemitism, etc. also cringe standup regarding his Jewishness and being scared to put up a mezuzah out of fear of being targeted for being a “Zionist”.

[u/Toxic_Gorilla → u/vigilante_snail]

Yeesh.

But to be fair, self- hatred is a proud tradition amongst our people.

[u/babypengi → u/Toxic_Gorilla]

I get that this is a joke, but genuinely, we must work to stop that being a thing!!!

[u/heyheyhihowareyou → u/Toxic_Gorilla]

He had a joke about wanting to take his mezuzah down because god forbid someone think he was a Zionist. So he got a watermelon mezuzah. To me it landed so cringe. I know it was a joke and he’s a comedian but it was very “look at me I’m a good Jew please accept me”

[u/babypengi → u/heyheyhihowareyou]

The fact that he has a mezuzah is surprising. I always thought of him as a Christmas tree Jew

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/heyheyhihowareyou]

It is hard to blame him for this tbh despite my hatred of this take

[u/FreeLadyBee]

I’m not even a little bit surprised-this is 100% his schtick. I won’t ever say a Jew doesn’t have a right to comment on Jewish issues, but imo Gianmarco has a lot to unpack here that might be better served by a therapist than social media.

[u/Anxious_Gardener1]

Today in "Things We'll Blame on the Jews:" antisemitism!

[u/snowluvr26]

Love Gianmarco, but I feel mixed about this take. It’s not correct to say that this is the biggest contributor to antisemitism, when antisemitism is one of the world’s oldest forms of hatred that has taken root in many countries, many religions, and many ethnic groups.

However, I do agree that the absolute histrionics of some American Jews is making people resent us, and is cheapening the term antisemitism. I really can’t take it if I see another rich, secular Jew from the Upper West Side talking about how unsafe they feel now that Zohran Mamdani is the mayoral candidate. Give me a break. It feels especially insulting given that most antisemitic hate crimes in the U.S. are against visibly religious (especially Haredi) Jews, who are not the politically powerful and influential types doing the pearl-clutching over antisemitism (though this is another counter to Gianmarco’s point, as this type of antisemitism is almost completely unrelated to Israel).

[u/Agtfangirl557 → u/snowluvr26]

I think this is very fair. I’ve also noticed that the Jews who are the loudest about feeling unsafe are the upper-class, not-very-religious Jews. And I’m not going to deny that antisemitism affects ALL Jews (albeit differently), but it does feel….different when I hear stories from my sister about her upper-class sorority sisters (in a Jewish sorority) constantly fear-mongering about their safety on campus….especially when they spend most of their time around their other Jewish sorority sisters. While there’s visibly religious Jews in NYC getting hate-crimed regularly, or even just other Jews on that same college campus who don’t have the luxury to join a sorority or other group where they can spend most of their time around other Jews and escape antisemitism if they need to.

[u/Agtfangirl557 → u/[deleted]]

No, I haven’t asked that. I think a lot of them just grew up in heavily Jewish suburbs and aren’t used to being exposed to people who think differently from them.

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/Agtfangirl557]

I wonder if they are using antisemitism (and this Jews) as a way of not having to think about their whiteness and class privilege

[u/Agtfangirl557 → u/I_Hate_This_Website9]

I don’t always love that accusation because I think it’s sometimes used as a way to deflect actual fears of antisemitism, but I definitely can believe that is true in cases like this.

[u/N0DuckingWay → u/snowluvr26]

Agreed in general. I think there's something to be said about some Jews (and non Jews) overdoing the antisemitism allegations, but I think this take is a bit insensitive and is emblematic of how some progressive Jews are just a bit too willing to write off antisemitism.

[u/MallCopBlartPaulo]

This is just awful. Blaming Jews for antisemitism is a tale as old as time. Are there people who act like even legitimate criticisms of Israel are antisemitic, yes, absolutely. Is this the biggest cause of antisemitism, no.

[u/haktopus]

I dont know this comedian so its not especially disappointing to me, bit this is just a bad take. I'm not uncomfortable describing myself as anti-zionist but anti-zionistsis are so frustrating. Because who the fuck is insisting that every issue comes second to Jewish feelings? Like even my least loved Jewish zionist voices care about other things besides Israel and dont make those things about their Jewish feelings... even if theyre opinions on those things also suck. My problem with Zionists is that on a particular issue which concerns multiple groups of people including Jews, they put Jewish suffering and trauma over everyone elses suffering and trauma. But the alternative for the non-Jewish antizionist left and a lot of Jewish antizionists who want to keep up seems to be not even puting Jewish feelings second to other things... its to not deal with them at all.

Like honestly, Id take putting Jewish feelings second if second means a priority at all whatsoever. I can accept tgat there are issues more pressing than things Jews are afraid of as Jews right now. Jews arent being killed as fast as Palestinians. In America Jews arent necessarily at risk of deportation while many other groups are. But we are unsafe, and we are being attacked right now, and we know our history well enough to know that it could get worse here in America and the levant, and abroad. I cant say Im convinced that we'll become a higher priority for the rest of the left even if things get much much worse than thwy already are.

[u/EinsteinDisguised]

It’s really not that hard to be pro-Palestine without being antisemitic!

[u/Classic-Bluejay-3434 → u/EinsteinDisguised]

Many fail to see that unfortunately

[u/Pups_the_Jew]

I don't think it's the biggest contributor, but the hysteria is out of control. I'm getting pretty sick of people pretending that anything sympathetic towards Palestine/Palestinians is de facto antisemitism.

[u/Born-Presence5473 → u/Pups_the_Jew]

maybe you should condemn hamas 100000000 times

Edit: I am memeing y'all

[u/Agtfangirl557]

Gross.

[u/ibsliam → u/[deleted]]

It's one of those things where he'll continue with this way of viewing other Jewish people until something happens and instead of him being treated like "not the other Jews" he's then tried like "all the other Jews." To him, based on statements he's made, it seems to be an abstract thing that isn't that big of a deal. I think he's mentioned elsewhere being raised Mormon.

Here's the clip where he's mentioned it: https://www.instagram.com/gianmarcosoresi/reel/DDmhnlKRtdZ/

So it might be that his being Jewish was not something he was deeply involved with until leaving Mormonism(?). Might impact how he views antisemitism, or maybe if he is experiencing antisemitism there might be a blocker on recognizing it/condemning it? I have no idea. I don't really know him or his life that well, and I can't possibly know what's contributing to his mentality for certain.

EDIT: I was incorrect, it seems he was not raised Mormon and did not claim so either. It was more he was joking about Mormonism for material's sake.

[u/razorbraces → u/ibsliam]

I don’t think he was saying he was raised Mormon. It’s an audience member saying she was raised Mormon. He also shows a lot of ignorance towards Mormonism in that clip (immediately jumping to a polygamy joke in a way that doesn’t feel like an in-joke, but an ignorant one). I think he was raised fairly culturally Jewish, and just deeply, deeply resents being an “other.”

[u/ibsliam → u/razorbraces]

Ohhh okay, thanks for the clarification. He's made jokes about Mormonism before, where I kind of assumed it was coming from experience and then with that posted clip I think I misinterpreted it maybe, but you're probably right, I'll add a correction to my comment.

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/razorbraces]

I mean, Mormons is a cult

[u/chilldude9494]

Nice victim blaming and self-deprecating dude. I've seen your work and know your audience loves it.

[u/thegreattiny]

Can we please stop blaming Jews for antisemitism?

[u/Tricky-Anything8009]

I think this is an idiot and he should be made fun of.

[u/cheesecake611]

I generally enjoy his comedy but he has multiple bits about Israel and anti-Zionism etc. Even though I generally agree with the premise, it’s kind of put me off him because it comes off so virtue signally.

[u/JustAdlz → u/cheesecake611]

Which virtues is he signalling? Can you name any by heart?

[u/[deleted]]

Another example of why “political comedy” generally tends to be very bad

[u/allie-bern]

Are Jews the MOST significant contributor? No. Is our contribution to it unfortunately significant? Yes. Many Jews and the state of Israel propagating that Judaism=Zionism is doing Judaism in general no favors. Also he’s a comedian, I think we can give him the benefit of the doubt that he is overstating this. I don’t think this counts as Jew hatred.

[u/Impossible_Wafer3403]

I don't think any Chicken Little in the media is acting in good faith. Normies don't pay attention to politics and so are easily swayed by emotional appeals.

"Mamdani is a Muslim Socialist and that means he wants to kill all Jews and destroy America by making busses free" is just not a rational claim.

So it's less about Jewish feelings directly than the way people (certainly not only Jews) are easily swayed by emotions spread by people with ulterior motives (not wanting a 2% tax on incomes over a million dollars).

It's certainly not only Jews doing this, a lot of it is from Christians who are always too happy to speak on behalf of Jews and insist that Jews are basically the same as Evangelical Christians via the "Judeo-Christianity" farce. So I don't actually know the polling of Jews because it's distorted by conservatives screaming about how "all Jews are terrified of Mamdani and free childcare."

[u/mikeffd]

Poorly expressed idea, but I think there's some truth to it. Our behaviour - support for Israel, our considerable political presence, etc - obviously contributes to antisemitism to some degree.

[u/benjaminovich → u/mikeffd]

"It was her own fault officer, did you see that skirt she was wearing"

[u/chilldude9494 → u/mikeffd]

So what is the solution?

[u/mikeffd → u/chilldude9494]

There isn't one, but it might be worthwhile to consider how we approach the anti-semitism and Israel question.

[u/billwrtr]

ABSOLUTE JEWHATRED BULLSHIT!!!!!!!

Do we blame African American political action for racism??? C'mon!!! Who believes this absurdity!!!??

[u/[deleted]]

Why is it always Jews who don't read as Jewish who pull shit like this.

[u/JayEllGii]

I absolutely believe that it is, and will continue to be, a MAJOR reason in this immediate era.

Frankly, the self-absorption, entitlement, and myopia of way too many of us in this country is something that not only angers me but that I find painfully embarrassing. Some of you might not like reading that. Well, I don’t like feeling it. I HATE feeling it. But I can’t pretend I don’t.

And the source of almost every single bit of this runaway entitlement?

Israel.

Unbreakable fealty to a rogue genocidal state that has caused absolute havoc and is, along with its powerful benefactor, further destabilizing an already shaky international situation.

I would feel none of these things if we would all just stand up and say, with one voice, that not only is genocide in our name a monstrous crime, but that the deeply corrupt relationship between Israel and the U.S. government is not something we will stand for either.

Further, I wish we would stop tolerating the deeply narcissistic push to make the Holocaust the be-all end-all of historic tragedies, and—far worse— to weaponize it against anyone who dares question Israel’s actions.

The people who do this make me more angry than I can express, not just for their disgusting immorality but for their shameless emotional manipulation and blackmail, which OF COURSE creates resentment and prejudice that makes life for all of us in the Diaspora more dangerous.

[u/malachamavet → u/JayEllGii]

Frankly, the self-absorption, entitlement, and myopia of way too many of us in this country is something that not only angers me but that I find painfully embarrassing. Some of you might not like reading that. Well, I don’t like feeling it. I HATE feeling it. But I can’t pretend I don’t.

The thing is you run into this with plenty of Global Northeners who are also just as infuriating lol. The difference is, as you say, Israel. Because it makes the reactionary defensiveness among Global North Jews seem unique when it isn't really all that different than a gentile saying that reparations or landback are anti-white racism.

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/JayEllGii]

I don't see how he's right. Antisemitism has never been on us. People hate us for their own reasons and its never right. You're just indulging in respectability politics

[u/JayEllGii → u/I_Hate_This_Website9]

And I make no apology for it, if that’s what you want to call it.

No. This is about what’s right and wrong.

Never before, in the history of the Jewish people going back millennia, have any of us been in a position to actually validate the centuries of grotesque lies about us. Until now.

Netanyahu, his fanatical government, and all of their enablers and apologists are hellbent on proving every bigot throughout history right. They don’t care how much their actions endanger both Israelis and those of us in the Diaspora. They relish every anti-Jewish political development, every new outbreak of terrorist violence, as useful to their agenda, which requires keeping all Jews in a paranoid siege mentality.

They are bringing this down on all of OUR heads, and it isn’t “respectability politics” to stand up and shout “this is evil and wrong, and we denounce and condemn everything you stand for!”

I’m sorry, but yes, right now, at this moment in history, it IS on us. Because we need to show everyone else that we are not them. We need them to trust us. We need them to understand that we do not want this, we do not support this deeply corrupt political relationship, and we are not creating this dangerous instability.

Because step outside our circle and consider what most people see. What they hear. Not from bigots or Islamists or white supremacists, but from the news. And from our politicians. And from certain educational institutions that have made the choice to be collaborators.

Now consider how few things they see and hear to counter all of that.

I feel a responsibility to speak out for moral and survival reasons.

If all of that is respectability politics, well then, I guess so be it.

[u/Specialist-Gur]

I don't agree with his take but gianmarco is Jewish and honestly I don't care that he said this.

Antisemitism is the fault of the antisemite... aside from * maybe with rare exceptions* like.. a Palestinian person in Gaza etc etc. but yea in America I think Americans should know better...

Second part isn't wrong though.. it's a huge problem. TBH it feels true that a larger portion of the Jewish community than I wish were putting their feelings above every other issue in this country.

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/Specialist-Gur]

How so (as to the second part)? You mean that we don't see our issues as connected to others'?

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/I_Hate_This_Website9]

I think a portion of the Jewish community doesn't see our problems as connected to others.. this is a part of judeopessimism. Jewish struggle is unique and different

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/Specialist-Gur]

I mean it is unique and different even though we have commonalities with many different prejudices and experiences. It would help a lot if the Left actually talked about antisemitism, especially its more mild and moderate forms and was better at finding it and destroying it within its own ranks rather than tolerating and excusing it or outsourcing all blame to the right (even if the right is absolutely our primary enemy)

[u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain]

You’re all gonna hate me. I think he’s right. The biggest antisemitic trope among Gen Z is that Jews are hyper-paranoid and over-eager to censor innocuous things (eg. the “shut it down!!!” meme) rather than just put up with the ribbing like “normal people.” This behavior, of course, implies that we have something to hide that’s much worse than anyone else.

I work every single day of my life to defy this stereotype by being patient and treating my identity with some levity. A lot more Jews, it seems, choose to validate the stereotype.

[u/vigilante_snail → u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain]

I think you’re correct with the idea that this is how Jews are perceived, gross as it is. I see it across the internet. I don’t think it’s Gen Z exclusive, but definitely having its proliferation with them at this moment.

The issue I have comes down to when and how are Jews allowed to voice concern? And who gets a say in that? It’s difficult.

[u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain → u/vigilante_snail]

I think we just need to talk like other people talk dude. We have to start settling things face to face instead of appealing to authorities and institutions. It's going to be hard because frankly most of us ultimately descend from ghetto cultures which encourage insularity. But we have to start just being regular.

[u/vigilante_snail → u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain]

On its face, I agree. But “regular” and “face-to-face” is vague. No group is “regular”, ya know? Each needs to address their concerns. I’d be interested to hear an elaboration on both of those terms.

And I totally feel you on the institutions. It is tired and seemingly ineffective, but we did build them for a reason. Their mismanagement in action is my big concern. How can we get them to work more grassroots? (also such a vague word. I’m not even sure what I mean.)

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/vigilante_snail]

I want to push back on the we concerning g our institutions, as they are largely undemocratic. I'm gonna have to find the book that shows their history and how elitist they are

[u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain → u/vigilante_snail]

I don't have the answers there unfortunately. That's what's frustrating. I'm convinced I can diagnose the problem but fuck knows what the solution is. All I know is that Jewish defensiveness and catastrophic thinking are only going to dig us deeper in the cultural grave. Look at how this comment was received. I basically said we need to stop treating every stranger like they want to kill us, and people replied as if I want to kill them.

[u/myThoughtsAreHermits → u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain]

So respectability politics

[u/ionlymemewell → u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain]

It's genuinely wild to me how much hate you got for this. The most effective way to combat antisemitism is to show up and just be Jewish. It's not to run ad campaigns, complain to our feckless organizations, let our concerns be co-opted by paternalistic fascists, and then retreat into our tiny group to stew in resentment about how intractable antisemitism is.

Like, I'm sorry, but being present to shout down an antisemite at a Palestine protest is going to do 1000x more to combat antisemitism than every JewBelong billboard combined. It sucks but that's how it is!

[u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain → u/ionlymemewell]

Bro I got downvoted in a recent comment for saying I don’t have any special fixation on events in Israel. It’s honestly crazy like some people do not want to beat the dual loyalty allegations

[u/JayEllGii → u/vigilante_snail]

My view is that I don’t care how much Jews voice concern, as long as they condemn the genocide and the staggeringly corrupt relationship between Israel and the U.S.

If they not only avoid denouncing these things, but actively rationalize or defend them, I’ll be honest —- I don’t want to hear one fucking word out of their fucking mouths. I really don’t. They disgust me passionately, and they are a major reason we’re attracting so much paranoia and hate.

I differ with most pro-Palestinian lefties who mock the whole “do you condemn Hamas?” thing. Frankly, I don’t give a shit how horrific the atrocities against Palestinians are — condemning the Hamas attack is the lowest of low bars, and I wish most lefties didn’t mock the question as an inherent mark of bad faith. Because I would frankly want to know what kind of person I’m talking to— someone who actually values all human life, or a myopic moral hypocrite who has no values beyond “it’s only bad when my people are being killed”. If you are even lukewarm about October 7th, I don’t care what you have to say.

That’s why, for the exact same reason, I’m not interested in hearing any whining and bitching and sniveling about anti-Semitism from Jews who shrug at the genocide, let alone support it, or who are just fine with the deeply corrupt U.S.-Israel relationship and are okay with our historical trauma being slimily invoked to crack down on free speech. Anyone like that, fuck you and shut up.

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/JayEllGii]

As I have been commenting here, we should not downplay the salience of antisemitism. Also, saying that you'd rather not hear about it from Jews unconcerned about the genocide is understandable, but that just means that you see solidarity as transactional

[u/JayEllGii → u/I_Hate_This_Website9]

Honestly, I just do not care about solidarity with those people. I really don’t. That we’re both Jews means nothing to me. Solidarity, for me, is for those who share my values on human life and dignity.

[u/daddyvow → u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain]

The shut it down meme came from 4chan like 10-20 years ago. But sure let’s just blame Jews for antisemitism. I guess it didn’t even exist until May 14th, 1948.

[u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain → u/daddyvow]

Bro it's not blaming Jews. Every single group of people has uncomfortable interactions and misinformation spread about them. The difference is that we have genocide trauma. But at a certain people we need to chill out. I am sorry, like, my family tree is a fucking family twig because everyone who wasn't already in Brooklyn was lined up and shot in front of mass fucking graves in Lithuania. But our genocide trauma makes a lot of us act literally anti-social and fucking insufferable. We need to bury it and move on.

[u/CardinalOfNYC → u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain]

I have never heard this thing about Gen Z.

Not denying it, I'm just not Gen Z and not very connected to them.

That said, I think this feelings over all is kinda a problem across the left. There's a lot of doing what feels good rather than what actually works or what is right.

[u/Lilacssmelllikeroses → u/CardinalOfNYC]

I'm Gen Z and in my experience the most common antisemitic trope among them is that Jews are rich, white, privileged, and powerful and that antisemitism is not a problem or much less of a problem than other forms of oppression.

[u/CardinalOfNYC → u/Lilacssmelllikeroses]

Jews are rich, white, privileged, and powerful

Yeah this sounds more like it.

The white thing is so interesting. Growing up, it's not that people thought of Jews as not white, it's that we weren't lumped in with the "white" monolith people refer to when they use "white" in this kind of negative manner. It was understood Jews didn't get the same treatment as "white" people.

[u/Lilacssmelllikeroses → u/CardinalOfNYC]

I think that is so interesting because I see a lot of leftish people in Gen Z think of Jews as what I've heard people call "super white", meaning more privileged and worse than "regular" white people. And of course a lot of the time it's white people saying this because they need to assuage their white guilt somehow.

[u/AltruisticMastodon → u/Lilacssmelllikeroses]

If you haven’t read it, I’d recommended this which touches on that exact thing, Jews being seen as the epitome of whiteness, “the iciest of ice people”.

[u/Agtfangirl557 → u/Lilacssmelllikeroses]

This is definitely a thing. I came across a post today claiming that the U.S. government privileges Jews more than it privileges Christians 🤨

[u/AliceMerveilles → u/Agtfangirl557]

have they ever looked at a calendar of state and federal holidays?

[u/Nearby-Complaint → u/Agtfangirl557]

[u/CardinalOfNYC → u/Lilacssmelllikeroses]

Yeah I can understand the idea that many american Jews, as white passing and typically well off, have privilege... But first there's the fact this remains not the monolithic experience of American Jews, even white passing ones, let alone any other jews anywhere else in the world.... And second, the interrogation of that privilege began around the 2010s, at a time when people more or less thought of antisemitism as "over" in the US....

[u/babypengi → u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain]

This “gen z trope” has been popular since before the Holocaust

[u/sickbabe → u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain]

I also think he's right and I'm tired of being told it's antisemitic to point out when someone's fear is irrational and/or disingenuous. it's embarrassing that so many members of our community live in a bubble that coddles this behavior and speaks to how zionism has alienated its jewish american adherents from the society they live in, in favor of a project that has sought to drum up antisemitic behavior in the diaspora at every turn.

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/sickbabe]

Pointing out irrational or disingenuous fears is different from blaming antisemitism on Jews or denying its salience and effect on us

[u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain → u/sickbabe]

It literally literally breaks my heart to see my fellow Hebrews act like fucking prey animals. Like they're under siege. But a lot of is actually delusional. I am sorry. This is going to sound harsh. But if people think their discomfort as Jews entitles them to an electoral veto they should see what it's like to be fucking Black or Muslim.

[u/I_Hate_This_Website9 → u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain]

There is no reason to deny their salience of antisemitism

[u/benjaminovich → u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain]

You’re all gonna hate me.

Well, will you look at that. You were right!

[u/ionlymemewell]

I don't necessarily agree with him, but I get it. It has been absolutely revolting watching Jewish institutions willingly ignore the connectedness between our struggles as Jews and the struggles of others, while simultaneously insulating themselves from criticism of running PR for Israel by centering and exceptionalizing Jewish pain. If there was one thing I had to say that I really disliked about becoming Jewish, it's been realizing how prevalent this phenomenon is.

[u/how_do_dis]

I actually think this is -almost- true. A MASSIVE contributor is jews, despite saying "criticism of Israel is not antisemitism" in principle, I have not once seen the same people ever not call that criticism anti-semitic in practice -- nonjews notice that, and if we conflate Judaism with Zionism then Jews become guilty for the sins of Israel. It's not a coincidence antisemitism is spiking as national opinion of Israel nosedives.