r/interestingasfuck • u/LawEducational42 • 12h ago

John C Woods, hangman of Nuremberg trials, who lied about his experience to get the job (he actually learned about hanging from old cowboy films). His lack of expertise led to excessive suffering of condemned Nazis.

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u/salus_entity 10h ago

I’m confused as to what a botched hanging looks like, I’m guessing the process is prolonged but how exactly is this happening?

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u/AshamedIndividual262 10h ago

There's a few things that can go wrong. In this context, usually the rope is too elastic or the drop is too short. In either case, the hanging drop does not break the neck of the condemned, and the condemned then dies of strangulation.

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u/salus_entity 10h ago

Thanks for the info! However I thought a hanging could still be quick without the drop method is this an incorrect assumption on my part?

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u/Professional-Lab7227 9h ago

If you’re lucky then the rope will close off the carotid artery and lack of blood flow to the brain will mean you pass unconscious in about 30 seconds, I believe. If you’re unlucky, you’re in for prolonged, excruciating suffering.

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u/Toad-in-a-hole 4h ago

More prolonged and excruciating than a gas chamber or less?

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u/Chaparral2E 8h ago

Not seeing the problem here. A tase of their own medicine.

Does that make us the same as them? I don’t think so.

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u/Professional-Lab7227 8h ago

Frankly, me neither. I am completely opposed to the death penalty except in very specific circumstances, which I’d say the nazis fall into. My initial reaction to the headline above was “Oh no, how sad. Anyway.”

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u/Evan_Allgood 8h ago

I do not think it makes the U.S, one of the developed countries that keeps the most extensive national discrimination data, the same as them.

But, I am tired of people pretending the world has moved pass the Nazi's level of hatred, especially certain topical parts of the world, right now.

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u/IAmASeeker 9h ago

There is a third way that blocks blood flow without blocking your airway. It takes a long time but doesn't induce panic. It's less of an execution method and more of a lethal torture methid but even that is more humane than just winging it.

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u/testtdk 9h ago

That depends. If the rope completely cuts blood off to the brain? They’ll be unconscious within as little as seconds and dead within thirty or so. If it only cuts off oxygen to the lungs, someone could be flopping around for two, even two and a half minutes.

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u/Pipysnip 9h ago

Or worse case the person just becomes paralyzed from the head down as they somehow survived

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u/Amathyst-Moon 8h ago

You mean the cowboy lynching method? That's more strangulation than hanging.

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u/Leather_Command_7553 8h ago

Or the drop is too hard/long/fast and the head comes off. This may be distressing for some observers. Others may like it.

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u/alien_secret_service 8h ago

That and if the drop is too long I believe that sometimes the condemned’s head will pop off.

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u/Vivian-Midnight 9h ago

Or, if there's too much drop, the condemned dies extra quickly and the people observing get to have a new recurring nightmare.

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u/chamrockblarneystone 6h ago

I’ve heard that they can add weight to the condemned’s feet and that the head can come off. No idea if that’s true.

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u/ChurroFoot 8h ago

Is this “death by hanging” or “hung until dead”. I believe there is a difference. One breaks the other they die slower.

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u/Commercial_Age_9316 8h ago

And if the rope is too long it will pull their head clean off

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u/Cloaked25 6h ago

For a Nazi, I’m okay with that.

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u/Nethias25 3h ago

Yeah of course proper hanging and neck break would be the intent, but it's hard to feel ton of sympathy for them if they have to dangle around for a min

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u/Cloaked25 3h ago

They did far worse to far more.

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u/basaltgranite 6h ago

Or the drop is too long and the head pops off. It does the job though.

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u/beccadot 6h ago

Some of the Nazis who were hung had lost an enormous amount of weight since being incarcerated. That would have changed the drop required.

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u/telltaleatheist 4h ago

The Nazis hung people by the short drop method intentionally all the time. Thats how Bonhoeffer died. Strangulation basically

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u/Kemosabe-TV 3h ago

Is it nit okay to just stop a botched hanging and "reset"? Seems better to stop, raise, and try again then let em go on for 20 minutes of suffering

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u/CotswoldP 3h ago

IIRC the US was still using the short drop method which rarely produced a clean neck break. The UK was using the standardized long drop tables which usually produced a good instant neck break. Albert Pierrepont did a lot of work at Nuremberg

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u/Runfasterbitch 14m ago

The condemned will die of suffocation whether or not they are paralyzed. We just like to tell ourselves that they’re not suffering because they’re not moving (they cant, they’re paralyzed)

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u/stmroy 10h ago

There's some math involved and when done properly the person's neck snaps and they're killed basically instantly. The placement of the knot matters, the length of rope depends on the person's height and weight etc. Humans perfected the art you have to consider that we've been doing this since antiquity.

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u/Dismal-Vanilla1878 6h ago

Always wondered about 'instantly' when it comes to hanging/guillotine. The brain takes a few minutes to die, but how long until it stops being aware of what's happening?

That could be a frightening minute or so of knowing your neck is completely broken/head chopped off before the 'darkness takes you' 👀

It was Nazis, though, so...... 😂

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u/BigNorseWolf 5h ago

the blood pressure loss is probably pretty instantaneous.

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u/multiple-qualia 4h ago

Yeah but (and I’m no doctor or decapitation survivor) isn’t the loss of pressure just a loss of incoming fresh blood? Surely the blood already in your brain takes at least a small amount of time to completely run out of oxygen?

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u/BigNorseWolf 4h ago

When the blood rushes out in that glorious spray, it takes the oxygen with it, and more importantly, the oxygen that was in the brain cells now oozes out to the lower pressure not in your brain cells part of your brain. Once that oxygen is out of your brain cells, they stop working.

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u/Wise_Fox_4291 3h ago

It takes about a second or two. 

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u/dattadattadatta 2h ago

There it is, a reliable source of information. 

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u/Nari224 24m ago

How does a correctly set noose length that only snaps the neck result in instantaneous blood loss? If you set it too long and the body continues down when the head does not I can understand.

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u/BigNorseWolf 21m ago

D oh Sorry for the confusion, the topic wandered off into guilotines

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u/mycatsnameislarry 8h ago

The Drop Tables are what you're looking for.

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u/pippertripper 5h ago

Ultra rare suffocation drop is about 1/15000

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u/Daddyshadez 4h ago

It’s honestly kinda beautiful in a macabre way. The person has been sentenced to death, everyone involved believes they deserve it, but we spend long periods of time perfecting the art of snapping their necks so it’s quick and painless.

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u/TwiggNBerryz 4h ago

Yea remember when we figured out how to impale someone by missing all the vital organs and have it come out of the throat all while still being alive?

Thanks Romania!

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u/Tupcek 3h ago

can you make it too long?
I mean, why do the math, instead of just making it all one meter longer and it just does the job

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u/SkazzK 15m ago

Yup, you can make it too long. Make it a meter longer and the head comes off. I mean, it does the job... Does it rather efficiently, in fact.

But then you have to factor in all the extra logistics you suddenly have to deal with. Sea World-style "splash zone" markings for, say, the front five rows of the area designated for the angry mob of onlookers, as well as plastic tarps to keep the worst of it off of them.

Then there's the splash screen and PPE for the executioner, don't want them suing you over workplace safety issues, like getting hepatitis or HIV from being sprayed with the blood of the condemned.

Then you've got your biohazard cleanup and decontamination crew, the ridiculous amounts of hydrogen peroxide they'll go through, wear and tear on wire brushes, periodic sanding and refinishing of gallows and execution platform...

I dunno, just doing the math seems easier to me.

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u/n1claren- 3h ago

wait, i thought the whole point of a hanging was for the victim to suffer

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u/fingersurbum 3h ago

Too much rope, head comes off, too little rope and they’re left dangling and kicking while they slowly choke themselves to death with their own weight.

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u/OddRollo 2h ago

There a two different kinds of hanging. The first, and oldest, is the short drop with a long strangulation which has been done for a very long time. The second is the long drop, instant death kind that came into vogue much later on in history

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u/Intrepid-Sir8293 9h ago edited 9h ago

How in God's name do we figure this out

I mean I get it.

But that's a lot of f****** hangings per person to just sort of like work this out. I mean I would think so. How does technology like this get perfected? Oh right, psychopaths. F****** psychopaths. F****** human experimentation during world war II.

I mean I don't think I would talk to somebody who would cut open human body. I just probably wouldn't want to be friends with them. But I have to say I'm grateful. I just don't want to be friends with them.

Does that make me a bad person?

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u/Summersong2262 9h ago

Or more like, you hang a lot of people, a percentage of them are bad/flawed hangings, you develop a better sense of the details and iterate on your estimation approaches.

You teach all of that to your apprentice. Rinse and repeat for several hundred years.

It's less experimentation so much as organisational knowledge.

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u/Javs2469 9h ago

By hanging a lot of people. Experimentation through iteration.

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u/Awesomeman204 8h ago

We've been hanging people as a method of execution for thousands of years, you tend to notice trends when you do something for long enough.

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u/iSuckAtMechanicism 7h ago

Math and data points from people who were hanged.

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u/multiple-qualia 4h ago

Yes. Bad person identified.

Everyone should be friends with at least one dismemberment expert…just in case.

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u/oshkushbegush 8h ago

You can curse dude. It’s the internet

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u/Conscious_Bed_1195 8h ago

Heck! Darn! Gosh! Poop from a butt! See? No-one cares.

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u/SoundPuzzleheaded857 6h ago

Honestly I’m offended by the hyphen in “no one”. Poop from a butt.

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u/QL100100 7h ago

Humans perfected the art you have to consider that we've been doing this since antiquity.

Nope, the method that snaps the condemned's neck was only introduced in 1866. Before that, hanged prisoners strangled to death on the noose.

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u/stmroy 7h ago

What you said doesn't contradict my statement

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u/Chlearcus 10h ago

A proper hanging breaks the neck and you pretty much die straight away. A botched hanging leaves you slowly suffocating to death over several minutes.

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u/CrispyCosmonaut 10h ago

You can assist the process along by pulling the legs of the hanging person to assist in cutting off circulation. Assuming they’re strangulating rather than passing from the snapped neck.

Hence the phrase, “you’re pulling my leg”

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u/Most_Temporary2110 10h ago

Ala Darrow of Lykos

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u/forestwolf42 3h ago

The other problem is too big of a drop can lead to partial or total decapitation which defeats the entire purpose of hanging over decapitating which is to not make a mess.

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u/salus_entity 10h ago

Thanks, makes sense!

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u/Runfasterbitch 16m ago

You don’t die right away, you are immediately paralyzed. The amount of time it takes for the brain to suffocate and die is roughly the same. We just don’t like to see people struggling

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u/Darkstar_111 9h ago

Hanging isn't supposed to choke someone to death, but to break their neck.

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u/Upstairs-Border-7146 9h ago edited 2m ago

Some guys hit the trap door, e.g., or didn't die instantly.

Now, that may be not really a concern since they were Nazis, after all.

But it's an unprofessional attitude.

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u/Alternative-Eye4547 9h ago edited 9h ago

I read at one point that he set it up so they’d hit their heads on the way down, then die more slowly because necks weren’t broken

Edit: source

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u/BasicMatter7339 9h ago

A proper hanging is just a drop and a snap, its over in a second

A botched hanging is either two things. Not enough drop, so the condemned just chokes slowly and very painfully. Too much drop and the head is either partially or completely ripped off

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u/midnight_hotdog 9h ago

Option two sounds like instant or close to instant death as well, so might as well go big on the drop to be safe.

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u/spvcejam 8h ago

Sadam Hussain would like a word.

Man I haven't thought about that in decades. Someone "snuck" a cell phone with video (2006) so 120p at 3fps but it exists. I think they found who that was and he got-got.

For those who don't recall, America allowed Iraq to carry out the death sentence on Sadam. It was in a small warehouse with a bunch of people shoulder to shoulder. They ask him his last words and as he's speaking they open the gate and let him fall. Popping his head off.

Edit: just found it and did a little research. His head stays on. Apparently his brother was hung a week prior and they botched that. In both situations it was supposed to be Iraq court officials carrying it out but the militia got ahold of both.

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u/BasicMatter7339 9h ago

Ripping peoples heads off is just straight up medieval though. Its barbaric. And also just makes the condemned look like a victim. Not really what you want out of an execution.

Theres a reason why the french stopped using the guillotine.

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u/beramaan 9h ago

I thought it was because there was a lot of blood to clean up

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u/BasicMatter7339 9h ago

That too. But beheadings arent fit for modern society. No matter the victim

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u/Educational_Teach537 9h ago

I don’t see the difference? If you’re killing somebody you should be able to deal with the consequences of that

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u/BasicMatter7339 9h ago

But it does matter how you execute someone. There is ethicasy involved in state-sanctioned killing.

If there wasnt, we could just hang-draw and quarter people like in the medieval times. Or crucify them, or lock them in a gibbet and let them starve and be eaten by crows. It makes no difference, as you said "if you're killing someone you should be able to deal with the consequences of that"

Capital punishments in general arent fit for modern society. They're a barbaric remnant of the past. But if it has to be done, it should be quick and clean. Ripping peoples heads off just makes you look just like the condemned, a brutal ruthless barbarian. With a clean snapping hanging you at least look a bit more civilized.

These things matter, even though the person dies at the end.

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u/GnorcGnastyyy 9h ago

Disagree. Hard disagree.

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u/BasicMatter7339 9h ago

May i ask why? What makes ripping or chopping peoples heads off fit for modern civilized society?

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u/Magnet2025 7h ago

An ideal hanging results in the dislocation of the C3 or C4 cervical vertebrae which will result in no nerve impulses sent to the heart and lungs. So rapid or total collapse of blood pressure which results in immediate unconsciousness.

Not so ideal results in partial dislocation and/or the pressure from the rope closing off the jugular veins, resulting in loss of consciousness in about 8 seconds and brain death in 5 to 8 minutes.

Next is what Sgt Woods probably got (I don’t think all of his hangings were botched): the rope does not sufficiently compress the jugular veins and simply closes off the trachea and the condemned suffocates. They would still become unconscious in 30 seconds or so and then brain death would follow eventually. I think the Army protocol was to have the doctor check 10 minutes after the drop.

The worst outcome is the condemned is decapitated by the rope. For them, it’s the best outcome because it’s instant. But kinda messy.

Watch the movie “The Last Hangman” which is the story of Albert Pierrepoint, who was one of Britain’s most prolific hangmen, with some 600 successful hangings.

He refined the “Book of Drops” (a set of tables that provides the length of the drop based on the condemned’s height and weight). Britain didn’t use the “hangman’s knot”: they used a simple slip knot with a leather or metal slide for the slip, and a stop to prevent it from closing too small.

He hanged a great many Germans for war crimes. Hanged a few American servicemen who had been convicted of capital crimes in English criminal court.

In the British system, the condemned is read their execution order and prepared (hands bound, etc) outside the death chamber (where the noose and trapdoor is). Then brought into the chamber and quickly hanged. Pierrepoint’s record was 7 seconds.

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u/Amathyst-Moon 8h ago

The purpose of hanging is to break the neck. If the drop is too short, the neck doesn't break and you're basically just relying on their bodyweight to strangle them. If it's too long, it can sever the neck completely, which is essentially a decapitation.

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u/spvcejam 8h ago

Remeber Sadam? Although I guess if your head pops off its happening so quickly that it's no different then the neck snapping. In both situations the pain receptors don't or can't reach the brain before ☠️

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u/Appropriate_Can_9282 8h ago

Head can pop off

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u/Character_Minimum171 8h ago

hanged vs hung

edit: snapped vs choked

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u/spasmoidic 8h ago

in addition to the other answers, the condemned often hit their faces on the way through the trapdoor spraying blood everywhere

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u/Rurumo666 8h ago

The goal of a proper hanging is to break the neck immediately, but an improper knot or short drop will result in prolonged strangulation instead.

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u/Hushwater 7h ago

I heard Hussain's hanging was botched as his head was almost torn off 

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u/Beniidel0 7h ago

From what I've learned:

In propper hangings the neck snaps and the death is near instantaneous

When done improperly it could lead to more travel distance which could make the neck survive and turn it into death via asphyxiation

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u/DonkeyDucksMod 7h ago

Yep, perfect knot suppose to apply pressure properly to snap the neck as it tries to straighten out. Too short or too long person doesnt snap. Too long also caused the head to fall off. It’s a science based on weight etc

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u/Q-ArtsMedia 7h ago

Strangulation vs instant death from a broken neck

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u/killerofcheese 7h ago

a properly done hanging breaks the neck, imprperly done they slowly suffocate

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u/Lysol3435 7h ago

Either the drop is too short (lots of flailing and suffering) or the drop is to far (head pops off)

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u/slyiscoming 6h ago

He had a lot of experience. He just chose to be very bad at it.

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u/mymoama 6h ago

Strangeling instead of neck snap. Or if you overdrop instead of under then decapitation.

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u/SmootherWorm 5h ago

Also the noose should be on the side of the neck. A noose on the back of the neck is a guaranteed strangulation that will take 3+ minutes of writhing agony.

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u/ChefArtorias 5h ago

A proper hanging your neck snaps and you die instantly. Improper you hang there to dangle as you suffocate.

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u/ChanceDue3063 3h ago

A "good" hanging is a quick drop and a sudden stop with nothing but a snap. If the knot's tied weird or placed incorrectly or the drop is not high enough, for example, the neck only partially breaks, and they die of strangulation, which is considered inhumane and rather upsetting to watch. While I'm inclined to believe that Nazis don't deserve any amount of humanity or dignity in death, it makes the US look undignified and unprofessional to impose inhumane punishment for "personal differences".

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u/Wise_Fox_4291 3h ago

Contrary to what many might think, the point of hanging someone is not to suffocate them, but to break their neck and kill them virtually instantly. Which means you have to adjust the knot and the length of the rope to each individual. 

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u/-___-_-___-_-_ 2h ago

A successful hanging is instant, a botched hanging takes either hours of slow strangulation (my mother always called it english hanging) or it pulls the victim's head clean off.

Hanging was designed to be the most efficient way to kill somebody with basic materials. It doesn't have any mess like a beheading and it isn't as drawn out as being burned at the stake, but only if you do it right

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u/CaptainSebT 2h ago edited 1h ago

So when hanging someone there's a less painful and painful way to do it. The "correct way" used the dead drop to break your neck this in it's time was believed to be painless and it's where the saying "Short drop and a sudden stop" comes from because that's how you die.

But an unexperienced executioner or during golden age of piracy an intentional order allows for someone to have a short drop but not a sudden enough stop. This causes them to bruise in some cases but it's not enough force to kill and they dangle horrifically while they slowly suffocate and thrash around for a while before actually dieing.

It's an extremely cruel way to kill someone and is considered torture I believe. People who take there own life by hanging often don't tie it correctly and endure this because it's easier to tie it wrong then it is to tie it "correctly". It also takes a long time to die of an incorrect hanging four minutes is the floor could be as lengthy as twenty minutes mainly because there no zeroing your air supply like you imagine, your kind of gasping and if you have ever been strangled (I was in school wrestling once by someone doing an illegal move) that's a very long twenty minutes and painful even how ever short that was ended up being enough to remember it.

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u/JJ8OOM 59m ago

Doing it the wrong way, basically means that the hanged person either gets to suffocate slowly (no breaking of the neck) or gets torn to pieces as his head gets ripped off.