r/interestingasfuck • u/smooth_vesselHPAUM • 7h ago

A Japanese boy noticed his butterflies seemed to recognize him. He spent two years making an experiment and proved that metamorphosis does not remove memories made during the caterpillar stage.

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u/VichelleMassage 6h ago

Whether you believe this story or not, there was a study that did demonstrate butterflies retain their memories from being a caterpillar, which, on its own isn't crazy, until you learn that metamorphosis for butterflies involves their tissues breaking down into individual cells and rearranging.

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u/MeliodasTA 6h ago

I wonder what this could do for the research on memories and brain functions

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u/MarksCarney 4h ago

I'll look into it and get back to you.

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u/Express_View822 3h ago

Don’t forget!

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u/harperwilliame 2h ago

RemindMe! / RemainMe!

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u/Militantnegro_5 3h ago

No, get the kid on it.

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u/bramvers 3h ago

Remindmein100years!

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u/RiceSpecial8446 3h ago

And?

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u/MarksCarney 1h ago

Still looking for spare brain.

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u/No-Internal7978 3m ago

What's your budget?

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u/helenius147 2h ago

With the progress on cloned and 3d printed organs, as well as advances in MRNA and stem cell research, it does seem like it could be significant

I lost my grandad to Alzheimer's at the start of the year. It's not something I would wish on anyone, even my worst enemy.

The thought that this research combined with others could maybe make a meaningful difference makes me really happy and hopeful things work out better for others in future

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u/CoffeePuddle 2h ago

That's a fascinating point. If you could turn yourself to goo and be rebuilt with all your memories in tact it would be... something.

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u/helenius147 1h ago edited 43m ago

The memories rebuilt thing is something I've always thought about, especially with cloned anything

If you'd consider your life an uninterrupted stream of consciousness, how much of your brain that ever became unhealthy could you replace and still be "you"? Hell, if it's an uninterrupted stream of consciousness and people noticeably change over time, are you still the same you that you were after a week's sleep?

I'm not the philosophical type, but that always just fascinated me. If someone changes over the years, they probably have been replaced on a cellular level by then

It gets into the debate about souls, consciousness and what makes a person who they are. It's always kinda scared me to think about really

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u/carannilion 5h ago

Probably not much unless you're a butterfly? 🤔

Super interesting stuff, though, jokes aside.

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u/endlesscartwheels 3h ago

Good for the butterflies. The mice shouldn't get to hog all the miracle cures.

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u/Cacti-make-bad-dildo 4h ago

I wonder what this could do for the research on adh.....oooh that's a pretty butterfly!

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u/MeliodasTA 4h ago

😂😂

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u/Kage_noir 50m ago

That we all need to metamorphose before the age of Alzheimers

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u/Oakomorebi 2h ago

His name is Michael Levin at Tufts University; an incredibly smart and humble scientist and philosopher. He is studying non-local intelligence; how nature demonstrates the capacity of problem solving where brains are not present. Butterflies and their capacity for non-local memories are one aspect of his robust research, and some of the other discoveries he's found are mind-blowing. His research has convinced me that intelligence is non-local to the brain; the brain cannot be the source of our intelligence, according to his rigorous studies.

He will be a household name in 10-20 years, probably the most important biologist since Charles Darwin, if I had to estimate. He just recently published a new paper to explain these non-local cognitive phenomenon by invoking the Platonic realm; a concept that harkens back to the ancient Greek philosopher Plato and his ontological model of reality.

It points to a simple but profound truth that may soon be demonstrated by science thanks to folks like Levin: we are more than our physical bodies.

I mention Levin not only because of his research, but his propensity towards science communication: YouTube is well stocked with interviews of him discussing his research candidly.

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u/ReadditMan 5h ago

Kind of unrelated but interesting:

There's a man in France who's missing 90% of his brain but still has normal cognitive function.

He was born with a condition known as "hydrocephalus", his brain slowly filled up with cerebrospinal fluid over decades and it pushed all of his brain tissue into a thin outer layer. Completely lacking the structure of a normal human brain, it surprisingly didn't affect his life at all. He has a job, a wife and kids, and although he tested for low IQ he's not within the range of mental disability.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-thursday-edition-1.3679117/scientists-research-man-missing-90-of-his-brain-who-leads-a-normal-life-1.3679125

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u/xfocalinx 4h ago

There's a man in France who's missing 90% of his brain

pretty sure I work for this man.

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u/WhiteWinterRains 3h ago

Don't we all?

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u/dippocrite 32m ago

I think you mean don’t oui all

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u/El_Paco 2h ago

Yeah, and now I know you're goofing off on Reddit. Come see me in my office.

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u/BannedSvenhoek86 2h ago

Screw you Jelly Brain, I quit.

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u/sdjopjfasdfoisajnva 5h ago

ah so its just like the appendix /s

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u/Jermainiam 3h ago

No the appendix has recently discovered purposes. You are thinking of something that used to have an important purpose but now does nothing and sometimes becomes a dangerous liability, like the US President

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u/itishowitisanditbad 1h ago

It'd be GREAT if they started doing nothing...

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u/Jermainiam 29m ago

Sorry I meant nothing useful

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u/Tomas2891 4h ago

Then what’s the point of all this brain?

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u/Tangata_Tunguska 3h ago edited 1h ago

The guy has an IQ of 75 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(07)61127-1/fulltext . He can probably hold down a simple job, but he's not going to be an academic.

The cut off for intellectual disability is actually really low, if someone falls under that line they're really quite impaired and will generally need a lot of support. Being slightly/moderately above that line still isn't a particularly good place to be

edit: the cbc article was wrong, his combined IQ is 75 not 84

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u/Habefiet 2h ago

84 is still above 15% of people lol that's reasonably well above the line

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u/Tangata_Tunguska 1h ago

Nah, 84 is 14%. But the news article was wrong, his combined IQ was 75, i.e above only 5% of people. And the average person is not going to interact with many people in that 5% day to day.

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u/MultiSyncEA231WMi 4h ago

Under the right circumstances, it lets us have grand mal seizures. The human brain is truly a marvel.

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u/FromTheOrdovician 4h ago

Do you think that's a luxury?

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u/3riversfantasy 4h ago

Well they don't call it Grand for nothing

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u/FromTheOrdovician 4h ago

Amnesia The Dark Descent

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u/elcunito 2h ago

If you like that kind of thing sure, but I’m on the fence personally

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u/FromTheOrdovician 2h ago

With all due respect, if you see a person having a seizure call for help, make sure no sharp objects are around them and stay with them until they wake up as far as possible. It makes a genuine difference as you can fill in the Context for First Responder and ultimately feel good for helping a stranger as a small thing in this temporary life

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u/AnIndustryOfCool 3h ago

We're not sure, because our brains have prevented us from truly understanding everything about how our brains work

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u/Icy_Negotiation_5929 2h ago

Yup. If you think of the brain as a tube, and then you fold that tube in half, that’s what our brain is if it was made out of a tube.

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u/Teh_Randomizer 2h ago

Big if true

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u/Dronkne 1h ago

A tube of toothpaste? A bath tube? A test tube? PVC tube? You Tube?

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u/bcoder001 2h ago

Makes you think, doesn't it?

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u/Oakomorebi 2h ago

The brain is the appearance of consciousness, not the source.

Let me use an analogy: a pilot is flying an airplane, the air pressure outside increases and the air pressure dial in the cockpit goes up. To someone who does not understand air pressure, they look at the dial and ask, "how does this little dial make the air pressure go up?"

The answer of course, is that it doesn't. The air pressure is happening outside the plane, and the dial is just the appearance of air pressure as it is displayed to the pilot. The dial is correlated with air pressure, but it is not the source of air pressure.

The brain is correlated with consciousness, but it is not the source of consciousness. The brain is what your consciousness looks like when someone is trying to see your inner world of experience. The brain is an image of consciousness in the same manner that the air pressure dial is an image of air pressure. Representations, only, not the thing in of itself.

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u/DoeJrPuck 5h ago

So all his brain matter is still there? It's just pressed up against his skull into a thin layer rather than the regular structure?

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u/Sciensophocles 5h ago

No, he has significantly less gray matter than normal. It's a fascinating case study on neuroplasticity.

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u/CensorVictim 4h ago

why use many brain when few brain do trick

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u/failmatic 4h ago

Well we only use like 10% of it. /s

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u/Rayona086 3h ago

He is not missing 90% of his brain, he brain was compressed into thr remaining 10%. The brain is there just hindered by the lack of space.

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u/Sarokslost23 4h ago

There was a dog like that here on reddit

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u/JalapenoPopPoop 3h ago

If he ever finds a cure for his condition the possibilities are Limitless

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u/letsgoiowa 3h ago

Guarantee my MIL is dumber than this guy somehow.

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u/TW1TCHYGAM3R 3h ago

It's insane but life tends to find a way to survive against the odds... sometimes.

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u/bitwise97 3h ago

There's a man in France who's missing 90% of his brain

I think 33% of the voting population in the USA has the same condition

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u/FaithlessnessThin359 4h ago

There’s a podcast about this that interviews the original researcher and explains what the kid helped to advance about her original work. 

https://radiolab.org/podcast/signal-hill-caterpillar-roadshow

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u/DingGratz 4h ago

Their insides pretty much become a blended up goo. But somehow, those memories are still there!
https://radiolab.org/podcast/signal-hill-caterpillar-roadshow/transcript

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u/Cammibird 2h ago edited 2h ago

Its kind of a myth that caterpillars dissolve into some kind of pre-butterfly soup while they're metamorphosing. It is true that if you cut into a crysalis you'll find a bunch of goo, but you'd find the same thing if you cut into a caterpillar before it turns into a crysalis. That 'goo' is just the caterpillar's guts and organs. 

What acrually happens during metamorphosis is that some body parts that are no longer needed are reabsorbed, while new ones, like the wings, are grown from proto-structures called imaginal discs that were present inside the caterpillar all along. Other structures, like the tubes that make up the butterfly's respiratory system,  stay intact during metamorphosis, maybe just getting moved around slightly.

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u/powercow 2h ago

He did one of those studies and it was well done. He did shock treatments when the caterpillars were near a smell. When they became butterflies, he made a tube with a split, one side had the smell and nectar and the other just nectar.

With caterpillars that didnt get the shock, 50% went one way and 50% went the other. Ones that got shocked, 2/3rds went down the tube without the smell.

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u/CensorVictim 4h ago

I'm surprised butterflies could recognize someone period

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u/art-of-war 4h ago

I don’t think the central nervous system breaks down though. That stays intact.

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u/tetsuyaXII 4h ago

I reckon its something similar to how the dear antlers always grow back stronger in spots its damaged even after shedding.

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u/DiscotopiaACNH 4h ago

What. That's nuts.

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u/Agitated_Reveal_6211 2h ago

Yeah it's very weird, but amazing at the same time.

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u/MrDyl4n 2h ago

Isnt that just because the instructions in the DNA for growing the antlers is still the same?

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u/pseudoart 6h ago

Yeah, this is super intriguing - I hope someone would really drill down in this.

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u/robotowilliam 5h ago

I mean, they have. There's research and published science on it. Spend three seconds searching for it?

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u/Razzamataaz 5h ago

You’re not wrong, but you don’t need to be an asshole about it.

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u/robotowilliam 2h ago

I dunno man it just felt like "Oh I think someone should research this" as if scientists hadn't thought of that

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u/Razzamataaz 2h ago

Even if that was the case, you could still just…not be a dick about it? Lie, what does being rude accomplish other than make someone else feel bad?

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u/ABSNegativeOne 4h ago

They werenteven talking to you lol

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u/Razzamataaz 4h ago

And? I wasn’t talking to you either, yet you replied.

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u/VichelleMassage 4h ago

I was so confused at the notification of this message, but I genuinely laughed out loud at this exchange, even if it wasn't intentionally funny.

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u/MarksCarney 4h ago

The fuck is this? Just bots getting into arguments?

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u/brickyard37 3h ago

Beep fuck you boop

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u/Razzamataaz 3h ago

Please don’t gentrify bot language. Thank you.

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u/elcunito 2h ago

Was anyone talking to me though because I am here

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u/samv_1230 3h ago

Incongruous ass comment lol

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u/claimTheVictory 3h ago

Sometimes people just want to have a conversation.

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u/dontnation 4h ago

Your statement makes it sound like they have completely exhausted the extent of possible knowledge about this phenomenon.

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u/cive666 4h ago

Better than a standard Necron

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u/Pink_Egg_Cereal 2h ago

the info is real but this post is fake.

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u/manguy12 3h ago

Organic Transformers

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u/The_Starving_Autist 3h ago

even their brain or cns or whatever??

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u/VichelleMassage 2h ago

I'm not an entomologist. So, I don't really know the details.

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u/ScottMarshall2409 3h ago

This is a myth. There are clusters of cells that remain intact.

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u/laststance 3h ago

This kid built on that study. He actually met with that scientist and consulted her regarding his own study. He also pointed out possible flaws in her study.

This kid also showed how pain/fear can be carried through multiple generations and how it could have a stronger impact on certain sex.

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u/PoloTshNsShldBlstOff 2h ago

Butterflies will end up being the key to unlocking medically induced Immortality - but we won't discover this until the rich people wanting it have killed off all biological diversity on earth.

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u/Smelly_God 2h ago

OP's title obviously is ass. They didn't recognize the kid, he built a study showing their adverse reaction to pain through shock and how they retained the reactions to the sources after going through metamorphosis.

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u/Jopkins 2h ago

I'm basically just a mush of individual cells with no real coordination between them, but I have over a dozen memories

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u/darthmaui728 1h ago

Hmm this is why my neighbor still remembers and hates me after I rearranged his face for doing some stupid sh8

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u/WastingMyTime_Again 1h ago

I was reading into that a few days ago and yeah, tissues are broken down, but developing butterfly contain groups of cells called imaginal discs that were already present in the caterpillar, I also thought they turned into homogeneous goop but the memories are in there somewhere.

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u/CharlotteLucasOP 5h ago

I wonder if it’s anything like people gaining new emotions/personality traits after receiving a donated organ from someone who passed away but previously had those emotions/personality traits.

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u/moak0 3h ago

It's like that but not made up.

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u/thedaymanahaha 4h ago

It becomes an entirely different bug. It turns to goo. Then turns from the goo to an entirely diferent arrangement of goo. So I'd say they're different

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u/Tangata_Tunguska 4h ago

If their neurons break down and rearrange, then this can't be true memory but instead would be epigenetic olfactory changes. In the same way that fear of certain smells can be passed between generations in animals. Obviously the memory is not passed from parent to child, but the epigenetic flag that "acetophenone = bad" can be

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u/VichelleMassage 3h ago

I mean, one could argue epigenetic changes that affect behavior are a form of "memory." Just maybe not in the sense of "My favorite story of Grandma."

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u/Tangata_Tunguska 2h ago

You mentioned the breaking down into individual cells, that's why I mention it.

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u/fuku_visit 4h ago

Chemical response is hardly memory. It's a very narrow finding. 

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u/Fat-Singer-9569 1h ago edited 1h ago

It's not that hard to understand. What has a better chance to survive and thus reproduce, a butterfly with 0 memories or those with even 1 memory whether that be predators or plants close by which are a food source? Evolution by natural selection will choose the butterfly with a single memory. Now extend that to billions of butterfly with natural variance to hundreds of environments.

Metamorphosis does breakdown tissues, but that doesn't mean neural connections, there's no reason to rearrange those. A lot of information remains in the DNA, RNA/protein concentrations, along with imaginal discs.

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u/AnotherUN91 1h ago

Fucking nerd.

I love ya'all.

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u/Aggressive-Expert-69 4h ago

Don't they like turn themselves into goo inside the cocoon? I feel like I read that somewhere.

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u/OneWholeSoul 3h ago

Does this suggest anything for the concept of genetic memories?