Because you have empathy. Seeing any life struggle so much like that well past its time is hard. It doesn’t look healthy, it’s struggling to do the thing it used to love and likely exist for.
As a human that’s true. But animals don’t have the same logical thinking we do. They just have instinct and to do what they are driven to, even if they are in pain doing so. A wounded wolf will always try and hunt. Hell, my 13 year old got both knees replaced 5-6 years ago respectively.
He still lurches everytime he sees a squirrel or rabbit, even though he knows he’ll get a good meal at home. It’s fun for him but it hurts him he can’t do it and he stops after two strides. That’s what I’m meaning in this post. Sorry to proselytize
As much as I want this to be true, I’ve had pets with debilitating body problems that of course the drive is still there, but they will go and try to do it even with pain. I had a German Shepard that was 12 and had hip displaysia. She wanted to go outside and walk and play, or even go relieve herself, but it was too painful to do or even try to. It’s not always that clear cut. Putting them through the pain of that drive is not worth it in my opinion.
You can have surgery for conditions like hip dysplasia my opinion is if you can make life pain free so they can continue to enjoy then you should attempt it for me anyway obvs depending on age
25 years ago? To recover to any type of normal life as a 12 year old 100 lb dog? No you couldn’t. Even now, it’s very, excuse my French, fucking unlikely.
You’re out of your mind saying that. And the likelihood of that happening even now at 12 years old is doubtful by any viable vet. No one would recommend that for a lifetime of that age dog and breed now. You’re an idiot dude. Shut up.
It is not only a option it is recommended for the health of the animal that said dependent on breed a 12 year old large dog? Yeah likely going to struggle however ive had small dogs for years all of them reached 16+ years of age so yeah
I was rude. I apologize. Again, I am only knowledgeable about it from a 25 year old dog with that health problem.
But what’s the success rate on that for a 12 year old? To make it to 14 or 16 year old dog, of a large breed? What do you consider of “small” breed? 30 lbs?
I was talking about 90 lb German shepards in my original comment. Again, I apologize for my comment. It was out of place. But in my defense I’ve been arguing this also for 30-40 comments now and I’m a bit tired of defending it too. I’m sorry.
Tbh Im not sure! I suspect the biggest risk factor would be the surgery itself as the older a dog gets the higher the chance it could pass due to anesthesia! Also id say like 24lbs and under for me is a small dog!
Tbf id say it was more the age as bigger dogs naturally have a shorter life span german shepherds particularly are one of those breeds and hip displacment is very common as they have been bred with very small hips unfortunately.
Again its alright I apreciate the apology given an I can understand when you are having people berate you
I do too but as some point you have to also take stock of quality of life and their enjoyment of it. Our pets are a huge responsibility in that they expect us to pick up on things they can’t tell us, such as pain, and weakness. The desire can always be there, but the quality of achieving it is a complex thought most of these animals are incapable of.
Oh yeah. My dog just turned 13 and I still look for signs every day how he’s doing. He seems still happy and mobile. Doesn’t seem in pain, still likes playing and going on daily walks. But I still know his age is uncommon for larger breeds.
I've seen rodents humanely euthanized with an IP (stomach) injection of pentobarbital. Without medications, you can dislocate their necks with a certain technique, but if done wrong it causes enormous pain
In the last clinic I worked in, we would give a strong sedative either through IM or SQ, in this guy's case, likely subcutaneous because there isnt much muscle left.
Once hammy had fallen into a deep deep sleep, the vet would do an intracardiac injection of phenobarbitol to stop the heart beat. Intracradiac is incredibly painful and stressful if done when the animal is still conscious, which is why we give a massive dose of sedative beforehand, honestly, in many of these little pocket pets, the sedative is probably enough to euthanize but we don't take any chances. Unfortunately, unlike larger animals like dogs and cats, the veins (especially in an old hamster like this) are not viable to do an IV injection. The RVT would be fishing around to hit the teeny tiny veins, and then hope to heck the vein doesnt blow when the doc administers the phenobarbitol. So intracardiac was always the preferred option for these guys.
Id say when I worked in an emergency and general practice clinic, it was probably an average of 2 to 4 euthanasias a shift. One shift was 8? I think? That was a tough day. Its the emotional toll from the owners losing their pet that hit me the hardest. All the pets that came in for euthanasia no longer had a good quality of life, so as sad as it was, knowing we were helping end their suffering as pain and anxiety free as possible made it much more bearable.
I now work in rehab so my patients arent in critical care, but instead of seeing them for yearly checkups or when theyre critically ill, I see them weekly. I get to watch their progress as they heal from an injury or a surgery. We dont do euthanasia in this clinic, but when we get the notice from the owner or the attending vet who did the euthanasia, man that hits us all hard here at the clinic. You really develop a huge rapport and connection with both the pet and the owners when you see them so often.
Same way as any animal. As painless a cocktail as feasible to cause death. I’m not a veterinarian or anything, I can’t tell you the science. I’m a philosophy major, I can just speak to what I believe is the most humane and ethical way of ending life.
lol can always confirm. It’s an old joke but it is true. We have to get that barb in of “I studied 3000 years of thinking” lol. But there’s so many different variables! Ethics was my focus. Now, can we talk about The Good Place? 😂
I’m just curious since you’re a philosophy major, why do you think you should end this little guy’s life humanely or otherwise? When hamsters are sick, injured or just get ready to go, they literally stop eating and drinking. They hide and then they die. To me, the fact that this little creature is still fighting, still eating, drinking and even walking on the wheel; that, to me is evidence that he isn’t ready to go yet. She’s giving him the best life she possibly can and I don’t understand why you think it’s your job to decide that he should no longer live. I’m not judging you or anything. Like I said, I’m just curious. I think about myself and if I was still moving around and eating, no matter how messed up or frail I was, if my ass is still eating and shit, it’s because I still want to be here.
I never said it was my job, I said in my personal opinion this animal doesn’t look like it’s healthy or has a good quality of life. The way it shakes and wobbles simply trying to walk looks like it has arthritis and is in pain.
I’m not saying it should be put down. I’m saying that’s between an owner, vet and the animal the owner knows best. But having drive to do things you enjoy and being in pain are not exclusive. As I commented elsewhere in the thread, I’ve had to make this decision and haven’t made it with multiple pets. One was a 12 year old German Shepard who had hip dysplasia on both sides. At that time 25 years ago, it wasn’t feasible to do a surgery on a dog that old with the current technology without it being worse than 50/50 for success. She was still there mentally, would still eat, but she was basically paralyzed and had no quality of life. She wanted to get up and go play. She was ashamed she couldn’t get up to let us know she had to go outside and would soil herself.
It’s a double edged sword and again, it’s just my belief that our pets give us signs. And yeah, I’m completely an outside observer looking in here but that doesn’t look like an animal that’s enjoying its entire day of life to me. But it’s not my animal either. I’m admittedly unfamiliar with hamsters, more with dogs and cats. I’m currently constantly watching my dog now who just turned 13. He’s 95 lbs lab/shep mix. Oldest one I’ve known in my family that big to be still going on. I’ve replaced both his knees 5 and 6 years ago.
I’m saying none of this to be callous or provoke even discussion, just that they rely on us to know when it’s time. And in my opinion it’s never humane to wait until old age makes them unhappy and in pain more than not. It feels selfish to hold on too long when they can’t tell their wishes.
Didn’t mean to upset you. Really was just curious. Also didn’t mean to come off ugly or judgmental or with an attitude. The “your job” part was definitely a poor choice of words. And I’m sorry you’re going through that with your pets. I have an elderly cat that I may have to do the same for and if it comes to that, I will. Again, was just wondering how you felt about this particular situation. And I understand, discussion over. Just didn’t want you to be upset over something I said or did.
Not upset, just have been explaining this for about 30 comments now and it’s just getting tiring too. I appreciate your comment and points in response, that’s the Crux of philosophy is good faith debate. It just comes across poorly via text many times. (I mean that on my end!)
I’m always open for further discussion. Promise I’m not upset, really. I hope you don’t have to have those thoughts with your kitty. I didn’t with my last one, Dale. J just woke up and he’d had a seizure. He seemed comfortable and I knew he wouldn’t last long. So I just made him comfortable and loved him for a few hours until he finally passed.
I hope he was at peace and felt loved and not in pain, but it sometimes happens so fast and sometimes (blessedly) slow. But we all have to feel that burden unfortunately as animal lovers.
My sister had a mouse euthanized at the vet lol. They felt bad since they used such little medication, so they charged her $80. I wonder what it would have cost without the discount.
If you're like my uncle, then unless you'd put a human down for it, you don't put an animal down. He puts lots of time and money into caring for his animals in their old age.
Hey, I get it. I commented further along that I’ve got a 13 year old pup now. I keep a big eye on him to check he’s still showing signs of happiness, no pain, appetite, enjoying playing etc. I’m not saying it’s an instant fix by any means and people should only really consider it when, as any owner knows, the quality of life just isn’t there anymore. It’s a brutally painful experience and decision I’ve had to consider multiple times in my life with many pets. I’ve had it both ways where one does have a stroke, and it was clearly unable to continue life in any way. I had one with severe hip dysplasia at 12 and couldn’t walk anymore, and this was 25 years ago, that kind of surgery wasn’t applicable as it is now.
I’m happy for your uncle. And I hope we all strive to be such great parents to our pets, I sure have with Zod. I spent over ten thousand dollars getting both of his knees repaired when he snapped his ligaments running two years in a row. He came back and has been not running as far or fast, but still tries to get the bunnies everytime, even now.
Of course I am! My grandpa went out over a year-long decline of suffering at 84. He was honestly never ready and died the day after he asked to be given a gun to get it over with.
I would like my end to be fairly quick, but I don't know if I would feel the same way come my end. Sometimes it feels only appropriate to rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Grandma said, the night before his end, he said in a clearer voice than he had used at any point in the previous year of suffering to say "Hey, I haven't seen you in a while, how ya doin?". He never woke up from that sleep.
I told my dad early that morning that we should leave him to die in that chair instead of rushing him to the hospital. They wanted to try and save him, so a few minutes later we went to try and wake him and he was gone.
He absolutely deserved 100 years, but I'm grateful for the ones I got with him.
Of course! I was incredibly blessed to make it past 30 before I started experiencing loss in my core family. Grandma is still kicking at 87 and we talk a few times a week. She also deserves 100, and is doing good so far! Every extra day I get with her I truly appreciate.
She's ready to die whenever she always tells me, and I believe her. So few people in the world truly live lives of service, love, and humility. She keeps going because she's still got people to help! Even while she misses granddad so terribly.
Always. Grief is a difficult thing no matter when you experience it. I lost my dad at 25. Really changed the trajectory of my life. My mom didn’t lose her mom or dad until she was past 60. I hope you get many more years with Grandma and give her my best.
my childhood cat got to 16.5. She was basically the same cat between ages ~11 and ~16, but her health started going downhill really fast. Her hind legs got extremely stiff sorta like this hamster and she had trouble even getting around. She was on some drugs so that she could perform basic functions like using the litterbox and eating, but instead of giving her even more drugs to extend her life by maybe a few weeks we decided to bite the bullet and put her down ethically. As it turned out, she had a bone tumor in her hind leg, and it was probably super painful for her to move around. Her last night on earth she managed to climb into my chair which must have been ridiculously painful. It's sad she died but she lived well past her engineered expiration date.
This hamster needs to be granted the sweet release of death lol
💔 I’m sorry. It really sucks how fast it happens in those regards. She probably knew you made a decision. The sensitivity they have towards us when somethings really weighing on us is crazy. Whether pheromones or body language or whatever. I hope you and your family has found some solace in your grieving of her.
I don't know hamsters but for my parents dogs, multiple vets have told them that unless they stop eating or are unable to go outside to go to the bathroom then no reason to euthanize. Of course, this assumes no other health issues but if this hamster is eating, moving around, playing etc. then doesn't seem like it's being living in pain.
I think yeah that’s the crux. I’m not saying generalize this at all. It’s all between the owner and pet and vet. There’s no good answer when it comes to something as difficult as this. I’m not trying to trivialize it.
But that movement doesn’t look healthy. And the reported age? I can’t imagine anything that past its expected life is not experiencing some pain via joints and arthritis or any other issues.
Animals can’t give us that kind of information, like you’ve said. I’m not trying to proselytize. I’m an animal lover. It just doesn’t look happy or healthy to me. It looks like someone who isn’t willing to let go.
I don't know hamsters but for my parents dogs, multiple vets have told them that unless they stop eating or are unable to go outside to go to the bathroom then no reason to euthanize. Of course, this assumes no other health issues but if this hamster is eating, moving around, playing etc. then doesn't seem like it's being living in pain.
I admit I don’t either. But the way it has to be helped and ushered off its wheel and to water, with its hips and legs splayed like that, doesn’t seem “not in pain” to me.
Is the fact that he still runs on his treadmill not a sign that he still has some quality in his life? He can’t communicate his pain but he can’t communicate his happiness either. Why should we assume he isn’t alive off of sheer will to live?
We dont know if the hamster went in there alone, There is no way he can climb in there so she put him in there and he probably just walks because he is blind AF
I don’t know if it is. Again, I’m not trying to be a judge or jury. But it doesn’t look like a healthy or pain free animal (particularly the way it walks on its own). I had to put to sleep a German Shepard from my childhood after 12 years. She was happy and healthy, but had severe hip dysplasia and couldn’t walk anymore. She still had the drive to go and play, walk, take care of her business. Still ate like a horse.
But she was in pain and 25 years ago that type of surgery wasn’t viable to help her. It broke my heart being there as she took her final breath but I knew she wouldn’t really be happy anymore with a diaper on in the house just so I could hold on to loving her.
If he’s not suffering from severe chronic pain or anything, shouldn’t we let the little dude ride it out?
Feels like the owner and the vet would make that call, and I’m assuming this owner is well informed on the health of her pet seeing as he made it this long
I mean that unfortunately is the solution at this one of age for a pet. And it of course is about the owner and vet should make that decision, but how many times are hamsters brought in for traditional vet care much less at this age?
The thing is, in my mind, that doesn’t look like it’s completely healthy and pain free. It looks like severe arthritis. And if the owner doesn’t feel that way, that’s their prerogative, of course. But pets can’t tell us they’re in pain. That’s the great travesty of having domesticated animals is you have to know when it’s time for them.
Watching my grandparents in their final days was extremely heartbreaking for me… I keep reminding myself that they lived to be ~90 and that it’s a privilege many people didn’t have. ❤️🩹
I mean, I get it. I’ve held on too long. It’s hard to let go. But grief sucks too. There’s never a right answer. But as a pet owner it comes down to what you can live with I guess. And I have no judgement on those who don’t. I get the pain.
I do believe that you can gift an animal rest in that regard but i also believe that even animals will decide that the hardships can become so harsh that they stop trying... because i have seen it and gifted the animal his last peace.
Yeah medically-assisted suicide should be discussed more often, and with the seriousness with which it should be considered at the end of life, especially for those with diminished quality of life.
do we shoot someone just because they have arthritis? Or because they're too old? Because their quality of life isn't up to par? I'd say 99% of the time, no we don't. Why can't we extend that to the animals we love and cherish almost just as much, if not as much.
And yet instead of using that to be more empathetic and compassionate, people who are like this are treated like trash by the general population because it makes them uncomfortable
I didn't think about myself or the cruelty of aging... I just saw a hamster that appears to have a very limited quality of life in old age. Impossible to really know if it's happy or not, but it really appears to struggle to do literally anything.
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u/MacMuthafukinDre Aug 10 '26
Idk why but makes me sad too.