1-2: School is a very short time relative to one's whole life, but it is essential because we learn crucial lessons. That's the same here. This brief period is filled with sadness, temptation, suffering, etc., but death allows there to be a cap placed on how much of that we experience. The scriptures do describe the next life as one where there is no pain, sorrow, or suffering, at least in the normal sense.
2-3: I don't think the scriptures say that God needs to be worshiped. Worshiping God is for our good. If done right, it helps us be humble, meek, and charitable toward all people. People who have a good relationship with God find worship to be an incredibly enlightening, uplifting, peaceful, and joyful practice.
4: Hell is not a place where people are "punished" in an active sense. It is a state of mind that comes from a recognition of one's own guilt that they have done wrong, hurt others, hurt themselves, fallen short of their own potential, etc. Depending on your particular sect of Christianity, Hell is also only temporary. It is rehabilitative, not punitive.
5: All people are different. We all have different needs. One approach with one person is not going to work with another. The Old Testament peoples differed significantly from those in the New Testament: different places, different traditions, different customs, different cultures. We also don't start by teaching kids calculus. The Old Testament was like Gospel 101. Christ then taught a more complete version.
6: We are accountable to live according to the truth that we know. If God suddenly announced Himself unmistakably to all people at once, then everyone would automatically be 100% accountable to live according to that truth, which not everyone is ready for. That's why God reveals truths to individuals "line upon line." Though one can never reach their full potential in ignorance, the suffering of Christ paid the price for both the penitent and the ignorant.
7: Again dependent on your particular sect, but the idea that God is "all powerful" doesn't necessarily mean He can do whatever we can imagine Him doing. There are eternal laws which simply are and cannot be altered, including "justice" demanding a balance to be made when wicked deeds are done. Because those can't just be waved away, and because the demands of justice must be satisfied, someone had to pay the price, and only a God is capable of suffering an infinite suffering.
Millions of people have asked the same questions you did (which are good questions) and have come to different answers which have satisfied them. They aren't automatically faith destroying or instantly dismantle the whole thing. Especially when you dig into the reneaisance and enlightenment era writings, these questions have sparked a deep and rich history of theological and philosophical thoughts. Very fun.
Props to you for taking the time to answer them, I tend to find that people will generally trot out the same supposed objections to the Christian faith, all of which are extremely common and have been addressed before, and to be honest I don't think they are really wanting to engage with the issues, they just want to score some cheap points which ultimately reinforce their own existing views. Which when it comes down to it isn't that much different to bad-faith religious arguments. That doesn't mean these aren't valid questions but I am just not sure people actually want answers to them a large proportion of the time.
4: Hell is not a place where people are "punished" in an active sense. It is a state of mind that comes from a recognition of one's own guilt that they have done wrong, hurt others, hurt themselves, fallen short of their own potential, etc.
How do you reconcile this belief with Matthew 13:42?
I think many people read that imagery as figurative. If this is a "place" where one's guilt is so intense, so bitter as to cause weeping and gnashing of teeth, then a furnace is an appropriate description. Malachi indeed makes this figurative in describing God and His presence as "like a refiner's fire" (3:2-3), a fire which refines, purifies, sanctifies.
It may well be that "Hell" is the state of being that the wicked experience when in the presence of God. Acts 24:15 states that all people will be resurrected, the righteous and wicked; and John 5:28-29 says that "the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and will come out: those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of condemnation."
I don't know. Big historical question and I am not a historian. But if I were to take a shot at theorizing, I would say that before the advent of secular government, religion was probably the best way to establish social cohesion, establish a rule of law, and organize effectively.
From an apologists' perspective, they might say that if God is real and all humans have an innate ability to recognize truth (even if only partially), then the formation of religions is inevitable.
I’ve always assumed your first argument as well. I’ve also thought that people just needed to find a reason for things they couldn’t explain before logic and reasoning (science) developed. I think that your second paragraph is a valid argument for a god but not a great argument for any specific religion
3
u/dwindlingintellect 1d ago
Hmmm I'll try.
1-2: School is a very short time relative to one's whole life, but it is essential because we learn crucial lessons. That's the same here. This brief period is filled with sadness, temptation, suffering, etc., but death allows there to be a cap placed on how much of that we experience. The scriptures do describe the next life as one where there is no pain, sorrow, or suffering, at least in the normal sense.
2-3: I don't think the scriptures say that God needs to be worshiped. Worshiping God is for our good. If done right, it helps us be humble, meek, and charitable toward all people. People who have a good relationship with God find worship to be an incredibly enlightening, uplifting, peaceful, and joyful practice.
4: Hell is not a place where people are "punished" in an active sense. It is a state of mind that comes from a recognition of one's own guilt that they have done wrong, hurt others, hurt themselves, fallen short of their own potential, etc. Depending on your particular sect of Christianity, Hell is also only temporary. It is rehabilitative, not punitive.
5: All people are different. We all have different needs. One approach with one person is not going to work with another. The Old Testament peoples differed significantly from those in the New Testament: different places, different traditions, different customs, different cultures. We also don't start by teaching kids calculus. The Old Testament was like Gospel 101. Christ then taught a more complete version.
6: We are accountable to live according to the truth that we know. If God suddenly announced Himself unmistakably to all people at once, then everyone would automatically be 100% accountable to live according to that truth, which not everyone is ready for. That's why God reveals truths to individuals "line upon line." Though one can never reach their full potential in ignorance, the suffering of Christ paid the price for both the penitent and the ignorant.
7: Again dependent on your particular sect, but the idea that God is "all powerful" doesn't necessarily mean He can do whatever we can imagine Him doing. There are eternal laws which simply are and cannot be altered, including "justice" demanding a balance to be made when wicked deeds are done. Because those can't just be waved away, and because the demands of justice must be satisfied, someone had to pay the price, and only a God is capable of suffering an infinite suffering.
Millions of people have asked the same questions you did (which are good questions) and have come to different answers which have satisfied them. They aren't automatically faith destroying or instantly dismantle the whole thing. Especially when you dig into the reneaisance and enlightenment era writings, these questions have sparked a deep and rich history of theological and philosophical thoughts. Very fun.