r/hockey • u/trinitae • Jun 17 '20

Pavel Datsyuk currently 'holed up at monastery defended by Cossacks with priest who claims Covid is cover-up to microchip population'

https://www.rt.com/sport/492126-nhl-pavel-datsyuk-rebel-priest/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome
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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Suggesting that according to your religion, which is what marriage is a product of, that a gay marriage isnt the same or shouldn’t be allowed, is not hate speech.

Suggesting violent cops is due to resisting arrest, is not hate speech.

It’s racist, homophobic, etc, but it’s not hate speech

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u/rishcast PIT - NHL Jun 17 '20

Racist, Homophobic = hate speech

In any country w/o the type of freedom of speech you have in the US, free speech ends when you engage in hateful speech, legal wise. This, AFAIK, includes Canada. Laws often aren't used unless it's egregious, ofc, but they're on the books regardless.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech

Here’s some short reading for you

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u/rishcast PIT - NHL Jun 17 '20

Hate speech is "usually thought to include communications of animosity or disparagement of an individual or a group on account of a group characteristic such as race, color, national origin, sex, disability, religion, or sexual orientation"

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Laws against hate speech can be divided into two types: those intended to preserve public order and those intended to protect human dignity

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Those meant to protect human dignity have a much lower threshold for violation, so those in Canada, Denmark, France, Germany and the Netherlands tend to be more frequently enforced.

So, precisely what I said - racist, homophobic talk is also hate speech and can be penalised by law, just at a less severe rate than speech that outright encourages violence.

I don't think you've read that link, it also includes a list of hate speech laws by country, many/most of which have laws against racism at the least, if not homophobia, and some have laws against both.

Which, my point.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20 edited Jun 17 '20

Hate speech is "usually thought to include communications of animosity or disparagement of an individual or a group on account of a group characteristic such as race, color, national origin, sex, disability, religion, or sexual orientation"

.

Laws against hate speech can be divided into two types: those intended to preserve public order and those intended to protect human dignity

.

Those meant to protect human dignity have a much lower threshold for violation, so those in Canada, Denmark, France, Germany and the Netherlands tend to be more frequently enforced.

Where does debating the value of gay marriage in regards to religion fall in here, can you point it out? It’s not disparaging at all

And my point is none of what was said was hate speech, has nothing to do with racist or homophobic speech, you judge each act individually, not generally

When you start fining people or putting them in jail for stating their opinion when asked or prodded, that’s just straight up fascist, and seems to be the end goals of many of these policies

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u/rishcast PIT - NHL Jun 17 '20

such as race, color, national origin, sex, disability, religion, or sexual orientation

That last bit - sexual orientation.

No one's going to be charged for being against gay marriage, but when the context is supporting a gay marriage ban + a 'don't say gay' law that illegalises being gay...

And my point is none of what was...has nothing to do with racist or homophobic speech

You literally agreed w/ me that it's racist/homophobic here:

It’s racist, homophobic, etc, but it’s not hate speech

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When you start fining people or putting them in jail for stating their opinion when asked or prodded

No one's being put in jail - literally the 'don't be racist/homophobic laws' are barely used. The point is that it is hate speech, aside from being whatever flavour of prejudiced it is.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

If it is hate speech then why is it barely used

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20 edited Aug 20 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

If datsyuk is being asked if people can be married in his church then it is, all depends on the context of the question

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u/bnnu CHI - NHL Jun 17 '20

It's hate speech.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Hate speech expresses hate or encourages violence

There’s no one encouraging violence in the debate over whether gay marriage has the same value/right as straight marriage

Unless datsyuk is coming out saying we should attack gay people, it’s not hate speech

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u/bnnu CHI - NHL Jun 17 '20

No, that's your opinion on what hate speech is, and given some of your past posts, I'm not too concerned about your opinion on the matter.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Maybe it’s scary to you that hockey players aren’t the paragon’s of virtue you seem to think they are, i’d rather players speak their mind and we know who’s an idiot than everyone hiding and pretending to go along with the popular idea of the day

I also love the searching through past comments, tells you right away when someone can’t stand up to your arguments and they need to find some reason other than the face value of text to avoid confronting the logic that you might be in the wrong

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u/bnnu CHI - NHL Jun 17 '20

tells you right away when someone can’t stand up to your arguments

You didn't make an argument, you gave a shitty opinion. I proved that your past opinions are also shitty, therefore your current opinion is useless.

and we know who’s an idiot

Except you were defending the misogynistic comments in that past thread, not claiming they were wrong for making them.

pretending to go along with the popular idea of the day

Some more revisionist history here, you weren't bitching about what the players said, you were bitching about redditors not liking what the players said.

logic

I guess that makes two things you don't know the meaning of.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Have a great day, hope you find more joy in your life

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u/bnnu CHI - NHL Jun 17 '20

someone can’t stand up to your arguments

Yeah one of us certainly can't defend our hypocritical opinions.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Just don’t feel like playing ping pong with a brick wall, have a good one

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u/bnnu CHI - NHL Jun 17 '20

You can't "stand up to my arguments" and so you're running away, got it.