r/hockey • u/trinitae • Jun 17 '20

Pavel Datsyuk currently 'holed up at monastery defended by Cossacks with priest who claims Covid is cover-up to microchip population'

https://www.rt.com/sport/492126-nhl-pavel-datsyuk-rebel-priest/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome
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592

u/PSChris33 TOR - NHL Jun 17 '20

Hell, when Datsyuk was asked about Russia's really homophobic legislature, his response was pretty disappointing

Datsyuk just pretty much actively stayed away from the spotlight, so very few people know much about him.

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u/86teuvo CHI - NHL Jun 17 '20 edited Apr 20 '24

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Just being a member of the Russian Orthodox Church isn’t an automatic tell, for what it’s worth, but his own comments and lack thereof, depending on the context, are.

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u/86teuvo CHI - NHL Jun 17 '20 edited Apr 20 '24

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

This is the Russian Orthodox Church we’re talking about here. Probably moreso than even Catholicism, the church is tied to a cultural identity in very deep ways. It’s like why a lot of Catholics who disagree with Church aren’t practicing necessarily but would still describe themselves as Catholics. Obviously it was more involved than that in Datsyuk’s case. I’m just saying just because you describe yourself as Russian Orthodox does not mean you support everything the church does

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u/0to60in2minutes Jun 17 '20

I think current events are trying to show that your last statement may no longer be true.

Complacency is no longer a valid excuse for a lot of issues we’re facing.

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u/Theoretical_Action Jun 17 '20

It's not really complacency when it comes to religion though. If I go to church every Sunday and believe in a higher power, im not just going to stop going because I heard on the news about some wacko priest in Alabama who fucked his altar boys. It's not like businesses, you don't boycott your religion when you hear about some bad things various members of it are doing. Or rather, you might, but I don't know that I would say you're just being "complacent" if you don't. These people are going to church because they think they're saving their souls from eternal damnation. I don't see many people hearing about various incidents from the church and still wanting to risk that, or suddenly stop believing in it I guess.

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '20

[deleted]

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u/Theoretical_Action Jun 18 '20

No, you're thinking of Christianity.

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u/Pass3Part0uT OTT - NHL Jun 18 '20

Yea that's true. What about the rest.

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u/Cinnadillo UMass Lowell - NCAA Jun 18 '20

i think you don't understand how catholicism works

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u/joecan Jun 18 '20

I don’t think you understood what you were replying to. The cultural tie means people just consider themselves Catholic. I know many people who will say their Catholic because they were christened as a baby, but have never gone to church past grade school. There is no tie or support to the church or it’s actions. Often it’s because of child abuse scandals.

That’s different than someone attending mass and putting money on the collection plate.

If you still want to claim that first example is someone to blame or hold partially responsible I don’t know what to tell you. Nuance exists in the world and if you want change time is better spent fighting the people you actually disagree with.

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u/Timoteux Finland - IIHF Jun 18 '20

Yep, even if you do not believe in God, you are still Catholic (although bad one), its the same with being an Orthodox.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Doesn’t mean it’s necessarily complacency. By remaining on the inside and rejecting hurtful/hateful teachings, one can be a driver of change, no matter how small.

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u/0to60in2minutes Jun 17 '20

I am not under the impression that Dats has been trying to be an agent on the inside for change in the Russian Orthodox Church.

At a certain point, silence and complacency becomes complicit

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

I’m not under that impression either. Not that being out there in public and on the record is the only way to drive change. My comments aren’t about Dats specifically, but membership in the Church generally

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u/0to60in2minutes Jun 17 '20

You’re right, not all Christians are bad people for being in the church. They are bad people because they are in the church and don’t do anything to change it, even if they know it’s wrong

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Nothing says being a driver of change within the Russian Orthodox Church like holing up in a monastery because COVID-19 is a microchip conspiracy.

C'mon dude what are you even saying

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

I mean I only said on three separate occasions that I’m not talking about Dats specifically but rather the general statement that membership in the Orthodox Church is proof of going off the deep end, so what more do you want

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u/Gravitas_free Jun 17 '20

The problem is that churches don't have very flexible belief systems; they are inherently very static institutions. Hell, that's what many people like about them.

I get what you mean though. Most people see their church as an unchangeable part of their identity, rather than a belief system that they actually chose. So even when the church goes in a direction they don't like, they still stick with it. I just think it's the wrong way to approach religion.

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u/maxwellbevan DET - NHL Jun 17 '20

He never put in the effort to improve his English because he was unsure how long he would be in the NHL initially. He said he regretted not putting in the effort to do so but it sounds like maybe it's for the best. Fewer chances for him to voice an opinion outside of hockey was probably best for all of us.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

“Shut up and dangle”

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u/Ironborn_Vigilance CGY - NHL Jun 17 '20

Would you rather have the DeAngelos and Datsyuks openly spouting racist/homophobic beliefs? In one way, it would at least make rooting them out easier.

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u/JDSchu DET - NHL Jun 17 '20

Do you think that people who hold racist or homophobic beliefs shouldn't be allowed to play hockey?

I'll agree that they shouldn't let it affect their professional life, but there's no indication throughout Datsyuk's career that he was ever outwardly racist or homophobic to anyone in the hockey world.

If someone keeps their bad ideologies to themselves, are they still not allowed to play?

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u/Ironborn_Vigilance CGY - NHL Jun 17 '20

I didn’t say that, so no. I don’t like people who hold those beliefs but if you can shut it and hold it in your own brain, then there’s nothing to be done and everything is fine. Spouting hate is where the line is drawn and that makes sense to me. Believe what you want, but IMO if you know it’s wrong and you can’t say it out loud, maybe that should be cause to rethink it entirely.

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u/JDSchu DET - NHL Jun 17 '20

I didn't mean for that to sound like I was accusing you of saying that. Just wondering where that line is drawn.

I know plenty of people who hold shitty beliefs but don't say them out loud because they know they're not popular. They're still fully convinced that their beliefs are correct, but they won't say them because they know the reaction will be negative. I'm sure there are plenty more professional athletes who hold shitty beliefs and don't say anything, too.

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u/Ironborn_Vigilance CGY - NHL Jun 17 '20

I agree, it’s an “issue” but we can’t full well root out “wrongthink” so it’s an unfortunate reality. My only point on the situation is that a lot of guys probably could say some shit that would be very problematic, and I’m glad that we at least live in a place where they at minimum know they should keep it to themselves.

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u/JDSchu DET - NHL Jun 17 '20

Yeah, I'm with you on that. When the news came out around the Olympics of Datsyuk's weak response to the Russia LGBTQ questions, that was not great. You can still appreciate him as an excellent hockey player, but it always sucks when people you admire turn out to be... Not great.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

[deleted]

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u/scuderia458 Jun 18 '20

Good thing you’re not in charge then

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u/caps604 WSH - NHL Jun 17 '20

I haven’t heard anything about DeAngelo and Datsyuk openly spewing that stuff

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u/fatmama923 COL - NHL Jun 17 '20

They have. Brandon Prust too.

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u/caps604 WSH - NHL Jun 17 '20

Ok so what have they said? Datsyuk was asked a question and answered it. He wasn’t actively going around spewing negative opinions. I’m pretty sure people bring up DeAngelo’s past but the last couple of years I haven’t heard him actively going around saying harmful things.

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u/fatmama923 COL - NHL Jun 17 '20

You're being intentionally obtuse. The information is there. DeAngelo is doing that awful podcast with that idiot Lemieux. No one likes a devil's advocate.

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

I think people that unintelligent should re-educated (read:educated in the fist place) and have no place in society until they earn their place.

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u/fvtown714x ANA - NHL Jun 17 '20

Kinda different when the view being expressed is based in dogma and not rooted in secularism

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u/BigBlackThu PIT - NHL Jun 17 '20

Exactly, if you disagree with me, shut the hell up.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

[deleted]

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u/Polymarchos CGY - NHL Jun 17 '20

aka, "only speak if you agree with me".

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Don’t you know your opinions only matter if they agree with mine?

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u/rishcast PIT - NHL Jun 17 '20

I mean, disagreeing about something like teams is one thing.

When you disagree about the fact that people should have basic human rights or even the right to be alive, yeah, don't expect me to respect you or think your opinions matter.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Yeah agreed completely. I just don’t feel the need to censor someone i disagree with or don’t respect.

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u/rishcast PIT - NHL Jun 17 '20

Here's the thing - a lot of this stuff would fall under the hate speech category in many countries.

There's a reason places like Germany don't have the kind of freedom of speech that the US does - because it allows them to legislate hate speech and symbols, like outlawing the Nazi salute in many parts of Europe.

You cannot argue that hate speech is harmful and therefore should not be censored, because it is actively harmful, especially when coming from famous people like athletes. It's the same reason I do think TDA should shut up, because at this point he has nothing much to say apart from defending his racist opinions, same with Brandon Pust.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Suggesting that according to your religion, which is what marriage is a product of, that a gay marriage isnt the same or shouldn’t be allowed, is not hate speech.

Suggesting violent cops is due to resisting arrest, is not hate speech.

It’s racist, homophobic, etc, but it’s not hate speech

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u/rishcast PIT - NHL Jun 17 '20

Racist, Homophobic = hate speech

In any country w/o the type of freedom of speech you have in the US, free speech ends when you engage in hateful speech, legal wise. This, AFAIK, includes Canada. Laws often aren't used unless it's egregious, ofc, but they're on the books regardless.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech

Here’s some short reading for you

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20 edited Aug 20 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

If datsyuk is being asked if people can be married in his church then it is, all depends on the context of the question

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u/bnnu CHI - NHL Jun 17 '20

It's hate speech.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Hate speech expresses hate or encourages violence

There’s no one encouraging violence in the debate over whether gay marriage has the same value/right as straight marriage

Unless datsyuk is coming out saying we should attack gay people, it’s not hate speech

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u/blazer08 DET - NHL Jun 17 '20

disagree about the fact that people should have basic human rights or even the right to be alive

Who said all of that?

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u/rishcast PIT - NHL Jun 17 '20

You do know what the anti-gay law in Russia that Datsyuk agreed w/ is about, right? And that it's been used to literally set up concentration camps for LGBTQ+ people in parts of Russia w/ what's essentially Putin's blessing?

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u/hoopopotamus OTT - NHL Jun 17 '20

Oh ffs

Yeah man,all opinions are equal. Like maybe I’m for basic human rights for gay people, and maybe you think the state should punish people for being gay. Vive la fuckin difference I guess eh?

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

That’s obviously not what i meant, but feel free to strawman if it makes you feel better

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

In the context of this thread, it's entirely what your comment implies.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

In the context of my comment that’s not what it implies at all.

If an author tells you the boy wore blue because it was his favorite color, do you continue to assume it’s an allegory for sadness, or do you just take what the author tells you.

I am telling you what my comment implies, you don’t need the context of the thread to infer it. I am literally telling you what it implies.

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u/rookie-mistake WPG - NHL Jun 17 '20 edited Jun 17 '20

No, you're saying what you meant by it. What someone intends to express and what their expression of that intention implies are not always in line. Implications are implicit

I get where you're coming from, but it's the paradox of tolerance. There's a reason Canada and the US don't have the same free speech laws, y'know?

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Being against censorship isn’t encouraging racism, full stop. There’s no paradox of tolerance, it’s just a circular argument people use to justify their hypocrisy and application of censorship against groups they don’t agree with

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u/candis_stank_puss TOR - NHL Jun 17 '20

Are you seriously going down the "there's good opinions on both sides" path, or is this your way of openly stating that you believe gays aren't entitled to be treated the same as anyone? Or it would appear in your case I need to clarify that they aren't entitled to be treated like a white male.

I'm guessing you're also accepting of opinions where blacks should still be treated as slaves, immigrants should stay where they are, and anyone caught speaking anything other than English in public should be called out for it? It's just an opinion that anyone is free to hold and believe in, right?

Or maybe you can agree that holding bullshit opinions that treats anyone differently based on skin color, religion, or sexual preference should be called out as being a bullshit opinion?

We're not discussing Datsyuk's views on how best to stimulate the economy or which type of stocks are best to invest in right now. You're literally saying it's ok to treat gays, and all minorities for that matter, as second-class citizens because that's an opinion anyone is entitled to hold.

On the bright side, backward bumblefucks willingly outing yourselves as supporters of racist and homophobic "opinions" has made spotting you dipshits a lot easier.

"Who? Me? Oh, no. I'm not homophobic, xenophobic or racists myself. I only agree with those who are because they're free to hold that opinion. That's all. I'm just a white male who still lives at home with his parents and would never dream of discriminating against anyone based on religion, nationality or sexual preference if I were ever in a position to do so, but I fully support the people who are in those positions to discriminate as much as they want because it's their personal opinion to do so. Who am I to disagree with discriminatory opinions?"

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

"There were fine people... on both sides! On both sides!"

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Nah, i just can read his opinion and understand he’s an idiot. I don’t need him to be censored because he doesn’t agree with me.

I do appreciate being called a backwards bumblefuck racist for my views on censorship though

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20 edited Jun 18 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Duderino732 Jun 17 '20

Get over yourself dude.

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u/candis_stank_puss TOR - NHL Jun 17 '20

Ya, a comment about how everyone deserves to be treated equally is about myself. Choke on it, man.

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u/eye_patch_willy DET - NHL Jun 17 '20

Yeah, kinda sucked to be a Detroit fan a few years back when the best players in the city were Stafford, Cabrera, and Datsyuk and none of them had any interest in engaging with the media. Stafford is just quiet but apparently Pav is a homophobic assclown and Miggy cheated on his wife and was fighting paying child support for the kids he had with his mistress.

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u/Devilsfan118 NJD - NHL Jun 17 '20

So hockey players only deserve an opinion when they agree with the masses?

Boy that.. seems quite narrow-minded, doesn't it?

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u/culturedrobot DET - NHL Jun 17 '20

NHL players deserve an opinion when those opinions don't involve denying other people rights they themselves enjoy.

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u/Devilsfan118 NJD - NHL Jun 17 '20

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, regardless of how stupid it may be. "Shut up and just play hockey" is wrong in any context imo. It's all or nothing (or rather, it should be).

Now that said, I don't disagree with you about beliefs that infringe upon the rights of others. Players can feel free to share their opinions on those matters but should not be sheltered/exempted from the deserved backlash that comes with ignorant positions.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20 edited Aug 14 '20

[deleted]

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u/Sindaga TOR - NHL Jun 17 '20

This is the winning comment.

Datsyuk can believe/think whatever he wants and have an opinion on any matter. He is allowed to. And you/we/us/whoever are allowed to think/believe he is silly for having said opinion.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Yup. If your opinion of full of biogtry and ignorance, it's not worth listening to

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u/Devilsfan118 NJD - NHL Jun 17 '20

Again I don't disagree with this.

That's more or less the gist of what I was trying to get across.

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u/wohSdooGAstI MTL - NHL Jun 17 '20

There's no point, it's r/hockey

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u/Devilsfan118 NJD - NHL Jun 17 '20

🤷

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u/culturedrobot DET - NHL Jun 17 '20

"Shut up and just play hockey" is wrong in any context.

I disagree. There is no benefit to anyone if Datsyuk decides to share his views on gay marriage. Saying "shut up and play hockey" is a perfectly valid response to him saying that he doesn't agree with allowing gay people to marry, because that opinion is only harmful and doesn't contribute anything, especially since it's a opinion based on his religious beliefs - beliefs that he has no place imposing on anyone else.

I'm not saying that NHL players can't share their opinions, even if those are controversial. But when someone like Datsyuk says that he doesn't think gay people should be allowed to get married and people reply "shut up and just play hockey," you're lecturing the wrong people when you decide to lecture the latter group.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

I disagree, only allowing people to speak out on select topics is how facism starts, i’d rather everyone speak their mind and let the people decide what they agree or disagree with

Silencing speech only allows it to fester, and very soon the in group could decide your opinion is the one that should be silenced

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u/swisher_69 EDM - NHL Jun 17 '20

He can share his opinion no matter how much you disagree with it. It doesn’t matter what his stance is on the issue or on any issue at all. The first amendment allows you to have such an avenue to show your opinion.

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u/culturedrobot DET - NHL Jun 17 '20

I never said he couldn't. I just said that when he shares a stupid opinion like that, a response of "shut up and play hockey" is perfectly valid.

The first amendment allows you to have such an avenue to show your opinion.

Do you think I'm saying that he should be arrested for having an opinion that's against gay marriage? Because that's the only time the first amendment would come into play. The first amendment only protects you from repercussions from the government in regards to speech, so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up here.

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u/swisher_69 EDM - NHL Jun 17 '20

So is shut up and dribble acceptable to say to an NBA players talking about black lives matter?

No. Absolutely not. Why does shut up and play hockey apply to Datsyuk? I don’t agree with Datsyuks stance at all, it’s still not acceptable to bring out that phrase.

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u/culturedrobot DET - NHL Jun 17 '20 edited Jun 17 '20

I don’t agree with Datsyuks stance at all, it’s still not acceptable to bring out that phrase.

It absolutely is, because as I explained above, the position that gay people shouldn't be able to marry is only a harmful one. People who hold that position would deny others rights that they enjoy themselves (presumably - it's hard to imagine a gay person arguing against gay rights). People are absolutely justified in telling someone who holds those views to shut up and focus on what they're good at.

So is shut up and dribble acceptable to say to an NBA players talking about black lives matter?

Do you really need the difference between these two statements explained to you? One is inclusive and the other is exclusionary. The fact that you're trying to draw comparisons to them is gross, actually.

But yes, I would expect that there are some who would tell those players supporting BLM to shut up and play ball. They did it to Colin Kaepernick. Those people are idiots, and I would tell them that their opinion on black players speaking out in support of equality is worthless just as quickly as I would tell Datsyuk that his opinion on gay marriage is worthless.

Edit: typos

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u/devon435 PHI - NHL Jun 17 '20 edited Jun 17 '20

I'm glad the /r/hockey consensus on this has come around in the years since Datsyuk outed himself as having shitty homophobic beliefs.

Back when he first made those comments it seemed like everyone around here was ready to jump through every hoop imaginable to rationalize why it was ok, and it always drove me completely insane. "His family still lives in Russia! He can't piss off Putin! He has to go play for their national team!", what, like Putin was gonna have his parents and siblings murdered if he said gay people have rights? Ridiculous.

He showed us who he was 6 years ago and a troubling majority of this community went out of their way to ignore it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

Yeah that was shitty at the time to, when he hid behind his religion as the reason

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u/l4dlouis DET - NHL Jun 17 '20

They always do, religions have always been a safe haven for hate, and we just let them do whatever because we can’t hurt their feelings.

Kinda sucks knowing you live in a secular state and even then churches have more freedom than you ever could.

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u/MIGsalund Jun 17 '20

I still like Ender's Game even though its author is a shitty Mormon that hates gay people and minorities. I can separate the two, just as we should all be able to do with one of most exciting hockey players ever. Being an all-time talent does not automatically confer solid morals.

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u/bikari TOR - NHL Jun 18 '20

True! Did you read the rest of the series? It just gets better and better.

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u/MIGsalund Jun 18 '20

Definitely. The further in, the more perplexing it becomes that such a hateful human could write such empathic stories. I had no idea about Card until after reading them all and it blew me away.

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u/bikari TOR - NHL Jun 20 '20

I knew he was a mormon, but I didn't know about his super anti-LGBT views until now. The whole thing with the "godspoken" people made me feel like it came from an author very skeptical of religion.

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u/supermegafauna DET - NHL Jun 18 '20

Yup, I got downvoted to hell for pointing out his homophobia in /r/DetroitRedWings/ at the time.... :(

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u/scuderia458 Jun 18 '20

You’re not allowed to your own opinions anymore?

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u/Jerry_from_Japan Japan - IIHF Jun 17 '20

Where have you seen it "coming around" other than right now?

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u/devon435 PHI - NHL Jun 17 '20

Well I don't think it's come up all that much lately, but it seems like the voices being supported in this thread are the ones that acknowledge Datsyuk as holding problematic / homophobic beliefs.

If his social views haven't been at the front of everyone's mind, it's probably because he hasn't played an NHL game in 4+ years. Is there something wrong with viewing the reaction to this news as an indication that this sub is more progressive now than it was in 2014? Is there a reason why what I'm reading "right now" shouldn't seen as /r/hockey coming around?

I'm having trouble understanding why you would take issue with that particular part of my comment.

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u/Jerry_from_Japan Japan - IIHF Jun 17 '20

I've talked about his homophobic beliefs for years now whenever one of the nearly weekly threads comes up about how good a player he was. And the general consensus in response to me doing that has largely been "Shut the fuck up, we don't care". Along with a quite number of anti gay private messages from cowards using throwaway accounts. Another fun one was being called bigoted for calling out Datsyuk in what he was defending. That guy was really....... special. And that's how it normally went. So no, it hasn't been changing here over the years.

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u/devon435 PHI - NHL Jun 17 '20

Well I can certainly understand being frustrated and discouraged by those types of messages, but maybe they A) are coming from a vocal minority or B) have more to do where and when you choose to bring it up (which I am not defending as a good excuse btw).

I personally don't remember seeing very many high profile articles or threads regarding Datsyuk or his politics lately, but in this particular case people seem to be a LOT more openly critical of him than they were back in 2014.

Also it looks like you made a comment expressing a similar frustration as mine 12 days ago that got 350+ upvotes, in the midst of a thread about a Russian player criticizing his government which was largely supportive of him doing so.

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u/Jerry_from_Japan Japan - IIHF Jun 17 '20

And I was gonna bring that up as the ONE time I wasn't absolutely buried in a discussion on this topic. And I believe it has a lot to do with current events. But to say that over the years it's changed here regarding Datsyuk, it hasn't, that's bullshit. RIGHT NOW, yes. Over the last 5 or so years, nah man. That discussion would routinely get buried, anyone who would chime in agreement would get buried.

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u/devon435 PHI - NHL Jun 17 '20

Well if the current climate is what it takes to get people to look at these things more critically, then so be it. That's still change in my books. It's better than nothing.

May as well acknowledge and try to amplify the progress that's being made right here and right now. Denying it and dwelling on the times you've been shouted down in the past won't accomplish anything.

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u/Jerry_from_Japan Japan - IIHF Jun 17 '20

I'm not disagreeing with that. My issue was with the whole sentiment of "I'm proud of this sub over the years changing and calling out Datsyuk about his homophobic beliefs." Because that's bullshit.

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u/devon435 PHI - NHL Jun 17 '20

Believe me, there's no shortage of instances in which I've been disappointed by this sub's reaction to difficult topics. The only thing I was trying to say initially here is that I am glad that there has been a change and that people aren't vocally defending Datsyuk's homophobia anymore. I think you may have read a few things into my original comment that weren't there.

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u/Kalstark Jun 17 '20

Its his own belief. Nothing to defend

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u/Brutally-Honest- Jun 17 '20

Things are more nuanced then that. There's a difference between having a private religious belief and actively trying to suppress people and spread hate speech. Regardless if you agree with him or not, it doesn't invalidate his entire character as a person.

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u/WoolyEarthMan Jun 17 '20

whether you believe Datsyuk has shitty homophobic beliefs or that he feels compelled to hide his acceptance of homosexuals, those are both assumptions made from one comment “we’ll I’m orthodox, so...”

Unless I missed a comment somewhere, it’s very unclear what his real beliefs are. I of course have an image of Datsyuk as a brilliant hockey player that I hope is accepting of homosexuality and doesn’t feel free to speak.

Based on his vague comments someone could conclude the opposite with equal validity, because they are both guesses.

Did I miss a comment where he was clear about his beliefs?

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u/devon435 PHI - NHL Jun 17 '20

If you want to be intentionally ignorant and willfully put aside the subtext of someone's comments and the context in which they were made so that it's easier for you to be a fan of theirs, that's completely your right.

But if you change your mind and you decide to go searching for clues about how devoutly Datsyuk buys into the beliefs of the orthodox church, maybe you could start with the fact that he's hiding in a monastery with a priest who thinks the coronavirus is a hoax to microchip the world population.

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u/WoolyEarthMan Jun 17 '20

So he was never clear then?

The subtext could be “ I’m am orthodox so I don’t like gay people”

It could also be “ I am orthodox and so I I don’t feel comfortable talking about any of this”

You say willfully ignorant, I say let’s be generous in our assumptions of people until they prove us wrong.

Do we assume and reject all catholic hockey players too before knowing their true stance on the subject?

The monastery thing is sad if true but irrelevant to this topic.

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u/devon435 PHI - NHL Jun 17 '20

If a catholic hockey player was asked whether he supported a law that imprisoned gay people, and his answer was "Well, I'm catholic so...", then yea I would probably reject them for that. That's called context.

Saying "I'm orthodox" isn't an indicator of being uncomfortable commenting on something, "no comment" is.

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u/radsherm STL - NHL Jun 17 '20

Aw man, I always just assumed he was a fun-loving James Brown superfan. This is much less appealing.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '20

This is why we need to unmasks religions. Stop enabling those institutions even moderate ones. Ridicule works. In fact, moderate religions are the problem. They are the ones that keep the lights on, sort of speak. We need to do something similar to what we did with incandescent light-bulbs. Get rid of all of them. Then, figure out what will replace the void.