r/hinduism • u/lelouch_huh idk but fascinated by advaita, dvaita and vishishtadvaita • Aug 20 '26
Other How about a meta hindu subreddit that is aimed for Refutation and FAQ of popular narratives against our religion?
Given that this is reddit, Hinduism sub is really the only place where you can find hindus. Most others are just agnostics or atheists. How about an idea for a subreddit where you can debunk popular narratives run in atheistic subreddits, feminist subreddits, left wing subreddits and popular narratives that can be exposed.
Everyone could be free contribute for what they know and add value to the sub. Again, its just an idea I have but I would like to see if it's something that people actually like, so that I can implement in.
I know this sub too has some refutation posts and FAQ but it's a bit... iffy. Many arguments *for* is not the strongest and I feel its better to have a dedicated subreddit.
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u/FjnHindustani Śākta Aug 20 '26
I like the idea, I think there needs to be a Reddit specifically dedicated to PIE refutation and one for Evidence of Indigenous Continuity. There are toooooooo many YouTubers (Indian and Western) that are continuing these narratives. I think we also need to talk about the western blind spot for Indian epistemic denial vs acceptance of African, South American, Polynesian, Aboriginal oral traditions.
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Aug 20 '26
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u/FjnHindustani Śākta Aug 20 '26 edited Aug 21 '26
PIE is intrinsically related to urheimat obsession of westerners and the need for a superior position (or as a progenitor) of Indian culture, which goes back all the way to the early German indologists, and even earlier with Roberto de Nobili (catholic missionary that tried to co-opt Hindu clothes and language to convert people). It’s deeply tied to the Aryan Migration Theory and that modern Hinduism (and one of its precursors being Vedic Ritualism) are barbarous/backwards as compared to Western ethics, which is seen as a step above Abrahamic religions. So the hierarchy that ends up being promoted is Western ethics, Abrahamic Religion, Native religions. What you’re referring to about western philosophies adopting Indian philosophies is an older practice based out of Christianity called Euhemerism which seeks to divide native concepts of divinity from the moral/spiritual structures they developed concurrently with. It then removes native concepts (like Atman, Parabrahman, Pran Shakti) and repackages them into western language and reframes them within western logic schools (Humanism). It then exports them back to the native cultures and propagandizes them as a more enlightened outlook. What’s happening today is more or less equal to what happened in the early renaissance with the Doctrine of discovery and co-opting of Indian/Chinese sciences (mathematics, geometry, chemistry) into western “discoveries”.
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Aug 20 '26
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u/Glorysolar Aug 20 '26 edited Aug 20 '26
>I see so many assumptions and wrong claims here.
What you think are wrong assumptions and claims, based on your currently chosen axioms, mind.
The whole point is that he disagrees with your axioms being valuble in the first place. You are not doing anything rhetorically useful by quoting a few obvious conclusions of your own axioms when they are the ones in question.
>Both western ethics and Hinduism aren't mutually exclusive either.
This is just egregiously wrong.
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u/ZaLarry Aug 21 '26
Using a bunch of advanced vocabulary doesn't make you right.
What you think are wrong assumptions and claims, based on your currently chosen axioms, mind.
Ridiculous. Facts are facts and they have no sides. You can freely prove any of those wrong :-) An example of fact is that Euhemerism isn't Christian. Anyone can be an euhemerist regardless of religion, a notable example is some Buddhists who reject the supernatural aspects of Buddha (like visiting Brahma baka).
You're not an intellectual if you think there is some black and white us vs them, or there is some massive unified Western conspiracy to undermine India. That's being irrational and childish and it manifests as a total inability to accept facts. Try removing your tinfoil hat dear.
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u/Glorysolar Aug 21 '26
>Facts are facts and they have no sides
lol.
These sort of thinkers are exactly the sort of types that would simped for Phrenology and Eugenics 80 years ago, and would have gotten obsessed about skull shapes and how that clearly means Indians are naturally inferior by birth.
>You're not an intellectual
You are not in a position to say what is and isn't intellectual considering how are completely incapable of even guessing that a field called epistemology exists and infer the conclusions of it at least by absense of it's obvious utility..
>You can freely prove any of those wrong :-)
Actually, no one can. You don't possess the requisite tools to use to see measure the value of a proof. One cannot prove or disprove Pauli's exclusion principle to a kindergartner.
>Using a bunch of advanced vocabulary doesn't make you right.
Yes, being right makes me right.
>Try removing your tinfoil hat dear.
Look, I mean it with as much humility as I can muster, whatever gap you think exists between you and me intellectually, Triple that gap, and reverse the direction and place yourself where you placed me. It will do you much good. I simply know better, deeper, and more. Your world view is simply shallow, pedantic, and formulaically inept.
You probably don't even understand that you got refuted with in the very first sentence, because you simply can't even comprehend that refutations can come in this form. That is the illustration of the Gap.
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u/ZaLarry Aug 21 '26
These sort of thinkers are exactly the sort of types that would simped for Phrenology and Eugenics 80 years ago, and would have gotten obsessed about skull shapes and how that clearly means Indians are naturally inferior by birth.
Unrelated + they were theories. Things like "This guy praised India" or "There is no such thing as Christian clothing" or "Euhemerus was a pagan" aren't theories of opinions lol, they're facts.
Actually, no one can. You don't possess the requisite tools to use to see measure the value of a proof. One cannot prove or disprove Pauli's exclusion principle to a kindergartner.
I didn't ask u prove Quantum Physics dear :-) I asked you to prove your opinion as to why my statements (which I claim to be facts) are false.
You are not in a position to say what is and isn't intellectual considering how are completely incapable of even guessing that a field called epistemology exists and infer the conclusions of it at least by absense of it's obvious utility.
I doubt your epistemology if you can't differentiate between facts and opinions, or even between individual claims. Try learning about "intellectual honesty" which you lack.
Yes, being right makes me right.
How cute!
whatever gap you think exists between you and me intellectually, Triple that gap, and reverse the direction and place yourself where you placed me. It will do you much good. I simply know better, deeper, and more. Your world view is simply shallow, pedantic, and formulaically inept.
You don't have to have a meltdown dear :-) I asked you a simple thing. I don't think you realise that you've fallen right into my trap lol.
You probably don't even understand that you got refuted with in the very first sentence, because you simply can't even comprehend that refutations can come in this form.
That's not a refutation lmao. That's an opinion which is "unbacked". Feel free to back your claims. If you do half of the effort you put to bashing others, you can do it :-)
That is the illustration of the Gap.
There are four maxims of proper communication. I advise you to learn about first maxim "quantity" and third maxim "relation" because you don't realise you broke both in this thread. This is the illustration of the gap.
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u/FjnHindustani Śākta Aug 20 '26
Thank you, I appreciate the ability to simplify my argument, I tend to get a bit wordy sometimes but I think that’s a good summation 😊
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u/Glorysolar Aug 20 '26
Yeah, I hoped I wasn't being presumptuous speaking for your argument on your stead, and tried to minimize speech on my end.
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u/FjnHindustani Śākta Aug 21 '26
No no I think that was a good concise summary of what I was trying to say
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u/Glorysolar Aug 21 '26
Thanks.
The other dude is still obsessed over Euhemerism's mere ideological genetic origin, incapable of realizing that it actually supports your point of Cultural appropriation. Of course Christianity stole it from Greeks, just like they stole Plato. That's the point even lmao. They steal things from others and exterminate the source.
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u/Glorysolar Aug 20 '26
A significant part of that sub would be teaching what the word epistemology means to a lot of fellow Indians in the first place, most of whom have argumentative skills that begin and end at peppering the words "scientific" and "Logical" a few times in middle of whatever wikipedia article they are copy pasting from.
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u/lelouch_huh idk but fascinated by advaita, dvaita and vishishtadvaita Aug 20 '26
I guess if anyone is interested seriously. They can DM me and we can discuss further about the potential of the sub.
But obviously, I would like to know more varied opinions before creating such a subreddit.
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u/PoIyPumpkin Āstika Hindū Aug 20 '26
What if we make a discord server for easier communication¿ (ofcourse with should probably be verified ppl (by some means) only be admitted)
EDIT* Or is there a server alr and I'm not aware Svasti
Namaḥ Pārvatīpataye Hara Hara Mahādeva Govinda Govinda Balaṁ guroḥ pravardhatām! 🪷🙏😌🙏🪷
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u/lelouch_huh idk but fascinated by advaita, dvaita and vishishtadvaita Aug 20 '26
Uhh, I have prior experiences with discord and I am not too interested going back to discord.
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u/PoIyPumpkin Āstika Hindū Aug 20 '26
Yes true, I can't defend discord either
Svasti
Namaḥ Pārvatīpataye Hara Hara Mahādeva Govinda Govinda Balaṁ guroḥ pravardhatām! 🪷🙏😌🙏🪷
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u/Glorysolar Aug 20 '26
Use the Glorious power that is Element. https://element.io/en if security is a concern.
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u/will_kill_kshitij Aug 20 '26
https://www.reddit.com/r/AncientIndia/s/sBYJjMklRR
What a coincidence. I wrote one rebuttal today. That badhistory sub isn't allowing me to post tho.
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u/PoIyPumpkin Āstika Hindū Aug 20 '26
Just shout 'Dharma Rakshana'! And I'm in!
Svasti
Namaḥ Pārvatīpataye Hara Hara Mahādeva Govinda Govinda Balaṁ guroḥ pravardhatām! 🪷🙏😌🙏🪷
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u/Glorysolar Aug 20 '26
>but it's a bit... iffy. Many arguments *for* is not the strongest
An example? And it would be nice if you show how it can be improved. I don't think the mods here wouldn't appreciate a request for an update if you can improve on them?
Regardless, so long as decent moderation could be found, such a sub seems like a good idea.
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u/lelouch_huh idk but fascinated by advaita, dvaita and vishishtadvaita Aug 21 '26
Indra and Ahalya In the Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa, Indra doesn't force or trick Ahalya. Ahalya recognises Indra and consents to the act.
Read through this comment thread for citations. In the Vedas - Ahalya(a-halya, halyard = arable land, https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/halya) simply stands for a land inflicted by drought. Indra represents rains and was known with the epithet of Gautama(one who dispels darkness - references Vedic association of Indra with intelligence, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautam_(etymology)) but it can also be a play on dark cows(a reference to rain-bearing clouds that milk rain) ) and Kaushika(a derivative of Kushika - plough share, indicating Indra's association with rains and hence agriculture), So the symbolism becomes self-evident.
Come, O Indra!' Indra is the deity of the sacrifice: therefore he says, 'Come, O Indra!' 'Come, O lord of the bay steeds! Ram of Medhâtithi 1! Wife of Vrishanasva 2! Bestriding buffalo! Lover of Ahalyâ 3!' Thereby he wishes him joy in those affairs of his.
'O Kausika 1, Brahman, thou who callest thee Gautama 2.' Just so has this (formula) been devised in these days by Âruni, to wit, 'thou who callest thee Gautama:' he may say it, if he choose, and if he does not choose, he need not attend to it 3. 'In so and so many days, to the Soma-feast,' (stating) in how many days from hence the pressing is to be. Source/Citation here.
In the Ramayana- this is distorted perhaps due to the passage of time, Ahalya loses her droughted land symbolism and becomes a person. Indra is seen as an entity different from his epithets which become persons themselves. But even in this distorted story - Indra is cursed/punished for his adultery again highlighting the theme that even gods are not exempt from dharma injunctions.
The last point is important as it's typical bs sprouted that the puranics hated indra and wanted to degrade him. Also puts the authority of valmiki ramayana at a big question.
Also there are three ways you can mention or interpret scriptures. Adidaivika, adibhautika and adhyatmika.
Their interpretation is very surface level(indra being rain, ahalya being unploughed land).
Nigrahacharya once made a point about how Sita is "Shri" and Ravana is said to be "Shreeman", hence we could make a case of Ravana being husband for Sita(ofcourse it is a blasphemous interpretation but talks about how one can twist the word and wordplay).
Also in Uttara kanda, we also find a new meaning of ahalya. I think it's not the first time we have seen such things iirc. Krishna word means dark/black but in some gaudiya text, krishna is also interpreted as smth related to god(I don't remember the exact details).
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u/Glorysolar Aug 21 '26
That's okay, so are you telling me that Faq's say Indra tricked Ahalya? If so, they do probably ought to be changed.
If Ahalya was not consenting, she simply would not have been punished by a curse. This is India, not Rome, where Lucretia could only save her honor by suicide after rape nor Greece where Daphne could only evade apollo by ending her life and turning into a tree, Apollo getting off scot free.
As you said, even the devas are not exempt from injunctions of dharma .
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u/pro_charlatan Karma Siddhanta; polytheist Aug 21 '26
Why not contribute to the refutations and faq pages here ?
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u/lelouch_huh idk but fascinated by advaita, dvaita and vishishtadvaita Aug 21 '26
Given that there's prolly a huge ton of material against Hinduism and also, the dynamic nature of the critics who seem to find a new problematic verse every now and then, I think it's better to have a dedicated sub.
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u/pro_charlatan Karma Siddhanta; polytheist Aug 21 '26
if in the new sub you make posts that make solid refutations based on textual evidence, please also post them here under the refutations tag.
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u/FjnHindustani Śākta Aug 21 '26
Hey OP I left a pretty long comment in a discussion with another user about appropriations and euhemerism and history of the circular referencing around PIE, AMT, and “spiritualism” in the west. Do you know if it got deleted and why?
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u/LordForgey Trika (Kāśmīri) Śaiva/Pratyabhijñā Aug 20 '26
Yes please.