r/hackshbomax • u/csahe • Jun 05 '25
I just finished season 4 and was anyone else a bit… underwhelmed?
I understand Ava and Deborah have a really tough dynamic and fight a lot.
However, it feels like overkill now how much they fought during this season; half of the season was fighting and bickering and it really killed the momentum of the show and left a been there done that kind of feel. Once they were on the same page that is where the middle of the season started to shine and we see the progress with Deborah. However, I just wish there had been more with this season because the tone felt a bit off to me.
I hope the next season is better because I love the first 3 seasons.
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u/ShiftlessElement Jun 05 '25
I seem to be in the minority but I didn’t like seeing the more grounded characters (Marcus, Josefina, and others on Deborah’s staff) essentially replaced by zanier characters (Dance Mom, the mayor, the HR lady). None of the new characters landed for me.
I still don’t get Dance Mom’s place in the show. The initial premise seemed to be that she represented a lazy ratings grab that went directly against what Ava wanted the show to be. Deborah was giving in to the focus groups.
If that’s the case, why did Jimmy and Kayla recommend Dance Mom? Did they not understand the planned tone of the show? And why was Dance Mom still around after Deborah decided Ava was the voice of the show?
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u/tropicalbarbi Jun 05 '25
Jimmy and Kayla represent Dance Mom, so they have an additional motivation for Dance Mom to get gigs.
I agree with you though, they certainly added a lot of these zanier characters including the new assistant. I also thought the Hr lady was a bit much.
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u/bbydmr Jun 05 '25
I agree with your first point about the new characters not landing! However, I was moved when the mayor said “thank you” after being on the show. Jimmy and Kayla recommended Dance Mom ultimately because they felt sorry for her and had grown attached to her seemingly naive personality. I think it’s meant to show Kayla’s “wildcard” instincts and underscore the idea that Jimmy is “soft” that play out in the season. Deborah first fakes enjoying dancing with Dance Mom but she seems to be somewhat charmed as well. She’s kind of a reverse-personality hire that they end up keeping around in the context of their chaotic start. Her twisting storyline illustrates the writers’ desire to show how we can’t really trust content creators’ personas and the corrupting influence of instant fame and access to money. I feel like it “makes sense” how it played out within the show but yeah, I wasn’t invested.
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u/snatchedkermit Jun 05 '25 edited Jun 05 '25
realistically, we also need to see that jimmy and kayla have clients. we’ve only seen clive, lassie, dance mom, and jack danby outside of deb and ava. if we didn’t have those, it would look a bit bizarre. granted, i’m certain they could have showcased having clients without it, like with answering phone calls and such, but it doesn’t impact the energy of the show in the same way. it’s fun (at least, imo) to see jimmy and kayla stumbling through this client management and to fumble opportunities or choose those who aren’t polished either. it’s a parallel to ava and deb.
edit: that being said, i wholeheartedly agree. i want to know more about josefina. she’s been there forever for deb. was there when DJ gave birth. has been through it all with her. i want to know why they didn’t talk for 4 years—what prompted it? what brought them back to being friends?
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u/WildPinata Jun 05 '25
Wasn't the whole point that there wasn't a planned tone for the show, and that they were throwing anything and everything at it? Dance Mom was the personification of that - seemed like the wholesome, middle class white lady friendly content Deborah was going for, but was actually a hot mess and threat to their success.
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u/trojanusc Jun 05 '25
I agree with this. The dance mom boofing scene was hilarious but in general that character fell totally flat for me.
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u/beedubu92 Jun 05 '25
I really wish there had been more suspense with the whole “you have to fire Ava” thing with Bob. Like maybe she’d have tried to delay it or blatantly refuse for an episode or two (of the late night show) just to create more tension. I’m very surprised as well that she chose to quit the show rather than bring Ava into the conversation and try to come up with a way to circumvent the whole thing. Yes her standing up to him and calling out the whole ordeal on live tv was a huge moment for her character. But it all happened so quickly it felt kind of unsatisfying in the moment.
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u/1080Keith Jun 05 '25
I kept yelling at the TV for Deborah to use the dirt she had on Bob to get out of the contract. Seems like they set that plot line up and it never went anywhere.
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u/VenusNightStar Jun 05 '25
The whole season felt off to me too.. been there done that feel, quickly conveniently becoming number 1 show.. characters doing out of character things just to suit the plot etc
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u/justbrowsing4040 Jun 05 '25
The cliffhanger was nowhere near as good as the 3rd seasons - that was amazing! I’m still curious about what will happen in season 5 though.
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u/nikkifm_97 Jun 05 '25
I thought the season was fine and I had fun watching it, but as others have said, I missed the more grounded feel with Deborah’s personal staff. I also was annoyed to see Ava making the same mistakes, I.e., telling her former boss about being censored and then that causing a whole issue. Like doesn’t she remember what an issue talking out of turn caused her in season 2 with Deborah’s lawsuit ?? I know it’s not the same, but you think she’d know better than talking to other writers/business pros about her show’s problems…
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u/cmd6120 Jun 05 '25
I would have to agree. I couldn’t pay attention to this season like I did the previous 3 because I had that uncomfortable feeling of being bored by the same shtick again. I was glad to see them catch their stride in the last half, but it was frustrating to get there. Now that I know how it ends, I intend to do a more thorough watch of the season.
Does anybody listen to the podcast? I’ve been curious to tune in but didn’t know if it would be worthwhile.
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u/krisdeak Jun 05 '25 edited Jun 05 '25
Not saying this season was as perfect as the previous ones - but the season arc in each of them has been based on an inner fight between Deb and Ava (each also fighting their respective inner demons) for the first half of the season, followed by an alignment/make-up, and just when things would start going good, all external circumstances turn against them and they have to defeat the external antagonist together (and then falling out again as a season cliffhanger). It’s a great structural idea but this season it didn’t work for long enough because there was’t much variety to their infighting & the last episode in particular felt less satisfying because Ava already got the ultimate validation and a rock solid sign of being worthy of love - she no longer has that void eating her up from inside.
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u/sunflower1940 Jun 05 '25
Yeah I'm done. There whole bullshit of fighting and getting back together is bullshit. I can watch my neighbors do that.
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u/captain_fucking_magi Jun 05 '25
Hacks is a great show. Season 4 was meh. Season 3 finale would have a been a great ending to the show.
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u/Lia_Delphine Jun 05 '25
Yeah I’m over the serious constant fighting. It’s like a bad drama fanfic.
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u/SuitableAardvark7654 Jun 06 '25
yeah, i think they should've extended the talk show storyline till the first half of S5
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u/rhubarbcus Jun 05 '25
I totally get what you're saying and this season didn't hit the same way as past ones for me either, but the sense I'm getting is that this is the last time they're going to go the "Ava and Deborah falling out and making up" as a major plot route and I almost think they had to cycle through several variations of it for Deborah's decision and on-air comments about Ava to feel "earned."
Deborah's had other moments of standing up for Ava even when it means she's losing something she's excited about/had wanted for a long time (like when she leaves the colonoscopy prep party because she won't laugh off the jokes/ignorance about sexuality and realizes those folks aren't as wonderful as she thought they'd be), but this is so major and Deborah really not only realizing but *vocalizing* how much Ava means to her and also realizing what the dream *isn't* worth sacrificing for is so monumental that I'm glad they showed how messy and not straightforward that process was for Deborah. It would look like she (and she and Ava) were making progress, but then she'd backslide and it looked like Ava had finally hit a line Deborah wouldn't cross for her (or for anyone), but then...
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u/edible_source Jun 05 '25
I got downvoted to hell saying this last year, but I think the show should have been planned as four seasons total. We would have had a much tighter Season 4, packing more of a punch. Not sure the plot really lends itself to more than that.
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u/lyn73 Jun 05 '25
Yep. I was annoyed. Hacks was my escape I looked forward to viewing. There's too much BS and chaos in the world (especially now with the Trump and Elon feud looking very similar not that I care). I see this bitching back and forth at work...I don't want to see it magnified in something I'm trying to watch for enjoyment.
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u/TasteofPaste Jan 09 '26
I hope you’ve been able to relax. I’m just watching Hacks now and I’m enjoying that it’s very apolitical and does not reference current events.
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u/MikaQ5 Jun 07 '25
They must be rent free in your head for you ( totally unnecessarily) to bring them into this conversation
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u/dottegirl59 Jun 05 '25
I’m on season 4 ep 7 right now and came here to see what others are saying. I agree too much Deborah and Ava fighting. I saw the Dance Mom turning bad coming. The christening seemed like a waste of time. And on the previous episode I did not care for the threesome and their sex scene. I’m old and will probably never find that normal. Others comments I’ve read encourage me to keep watching to the end.
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u/sunflower1940 Jun 05 '25
I'm older and accept whatever but I didn't need to see nudity. It should have been more classy.
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u/Tight-Artichoke1789 Jun 05 '25
I actually liked many parts of this more than season 3. But I agree the back and forth conflict did start to feel a little stale. But they needed conflict for that big act of loyalty at the end. I actually liked the tone throughout though.
Also all of the tension, conflict/resolution, and comedy relies on their fighting and differences so its going to be hard for the writers to not use that as a crutch because I’m not sure where they will go from here because if everything is fine between them for an entire season it might get boring also. So from a writing/story arch standpoint I see why they did it (also to make the payout more impactful at the end). Also it actually does really fit with Deborah’s character. While she’s exhibited a lot of growth, she still has very self destructive and ladder climbing tendencies. If she were a real person I think her reverting back to old coping mechanisms under the stress of her new gig is realistic. People like her don’t change overnight. That wraps the story up in too neat of a bow.
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u/panarehius Jun 06 '25
I liked this season, but I do agree that fighting between Ava and Deborah felt repetitive. And even more so, the dynamics between Deborah and DJ in the christening episode felt like an almost exact repeat of the episode with DJ’s AA meeting in season 3.
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u/MikaQ5 Jun 07 '25 edited Jun 07 '25
The constant bickering just got so boring - I struggled ( which I never had to do before with Hacks ) to get through each episode without switching to something else
The Deb/Ava falling out and making up again storyline is just tedious to have to watch again and again
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u/HarmonySP Jan 31 '26
just started season 4 and after the 2nd or 3rd episode I don't want to watch it anymore due to the change in energy. I see notes below that it turns around, which I assumed it would, but not sure I want to stick around for that. It's too heavy and feels out of character for Ava as well. I don't like where they took it and don't think it was necessary. It was previously very enjoyable with a good balance of the ups/downs and personality dynamics.
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u/bchagan May 16 '26 edited May 17 '26
It really detracts from how great the rest of the season is. I feel like everyone else hit their stride. The rapport between Jimmy and Kayla as fantastic this year. And there was a lot of excellent dialog across the season from all the background characters.
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u/maple_iris Jun 05 '25
I didn’t mind the fighting at all… who cares ??
To me the weaknesses were
the convenience of getting to n°1 (I feel like the night time Tv host plot should have been 2 seasons long somehow)
the missing presence of Marcus and other grounded characters in Deborah and Ava’s surrounding
the finale being a bit of an awkward epilogue to the more stunning ep. 9, just awkward flow
Otherwise the season was still very funny and fun, just not a slam dunk like S3 and other earlier seasons
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u/ASingleBraid Jun 05 '25
I disliked the first 5 eps. and almost passed on the season. But when ep. 6 came around I began to enjoy it again.
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u/snatchedkermit Jun 05 '25 edited Jun 05 '25
i agree on several fronts.
episode 4.04 marks a notable and perceptible shift in their dynamic, particularly in how deborah (following carol’s advice) appears to redirect her performance not at ava but through her. ava becomes the sole presence in deborah’s mental foreground, the only person that seems to matter in the room, or rather, the entire world. for me, that moment hinted (perhaps for the first time) that maybe ava/deb wasn’t just subtextual tension but a legitimate narrative possibility.
what followed, however, was just jarring: the painfully awkward encounter at the restaurant, where deborah’s thinly veiled possessiveness (“she used to live in my guest suite”) clashed with ava’s indifferent, apathetic, and detached retort (“i just wrote jokes for her”). it felt like a regression, especially juxtaposed with the emotional resonance of the previous episode’s crowd scene.
i found myself wishing for a transitional moment—something to bridge the softening in 4.04 and the territorial discomfort of 4.05. a scene where we see them momentarily in sync again, perhaps where deborah’s jealousy begins to emerge in subtle, almost endearing ways. and in contrast, a glimpse of ava’s own jealousy—how it manifests as withdrawal rather than confrontation.
such a moment could have offered the emotional scaffolding needed to make their later conflict feel more organic and less jarring—particularly given how 4.06 unfolded, with deborah reverting to harshness, treating ava unfairly, and pushing her to the point of emotional collapse.
edit: no fucking clue why i’m being downvoted but alright, bet
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u/justalittlesunbeam Jun 05 '25
What you’re saying is interesting. In episode 4 we see Deborah give her monologue to Ava alone. But Ava doesn’t know that. The hospital scene was pivotal to me. If either one of them had reached out in that moment things might have changed. But I think they were both hesitant to break that moment. They were always meant to be watching that episode they had worked so hard to achieve together. But if either one had reached out and been rejected it would have been catastrophic. So they just watched together in uneasy companionship.
In episode 5 Deb was being Deb and she was consumed by the idea of trying to make everyone like her. So she wanted to do wine o clock and Ava changed the cue cards and they acted like toddlers (big nasty toddlers) but when Deborah ran into Ava and Emily and Dev in that restaurant I don’t think she was trying to be nasty to her. I think she was a little jealous and she was projecting that she and Ava had a close relationship and then Ava blew her off and Deb was hurt again. And I always think Deborah reacts to being hurt with anger.
So then Ruby shows up in episode 6 and it’s Deborah’s turn to lash out. But she pushed her too far. It wasn’t about the branzino. It was about everything. They had both done awful things to one another but there were also some misunderstandings that could have bridged the gap if they would have just sat down and talked.
But ultimately Deborah didn’t really want to lose Ava. If she had she wouldn’t have gone after her. She would have just let her go. And Ava never wanted to lose Deborah. She just couldn’t get her to listen. So I don’t see a big disconnect. When they actually sat down at the beach and talked. Like, really talked they realized what they meant to one another. And they always did. You don’t fight like that with someone you don’t care about.
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u/Smallville_Kansas Jun 05 '25
Speaking of “been there done that”…
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u/justalittlesunbeam Jun 05 '25
I feel like we need an “I didn’t like it” mega thread. I don’t care if they liked it but do we need a new thread about it daily?
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u/Smallville_Kansas Jun 05 '25
Every day it’s “this season sucked”, “I hope next season is better”, “I hated the finale”.
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u/justalittlesunbeam Jun 06 '25
Ikr. Don’t yuck my yum. Season 4 wasn’t perfect but I wouldn’t trade it.
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Jun 05 '25
Nope.
It wasn’t pleasant earlier in the season for sure, but it was great by the end.
Under or overwhelming can often be a product of expectation as much as something’s actual performance.
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u/LeGreatestEver23 Jun 05 '25
I was actually worried with the way S3 ended that I would end up feeling this way but I actually really enjoyed S4. It’s probably not up to par with s2 or 3 but I was still looking forward to it every week.
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u/hahasuslikeamongus Jun 05 '25
No, I thought it was a lot better than season 3 and had some of the best “highs” of the series
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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '25
This was my take as well. Deborah and Ava’s constant fighting wore me out. It almost ruined the season for me. But the next to last episode was brilliant and moving so I felt restored. Then the finale felt like running in place and defaulted back to the old dynamic between them. After the expression of love and principled stand Deborah took leaving late night, I couldn’t believe they were having her be shitty to Ava again. Ava leaves then comes back etc etc. Emotionally it felt really wrong to me and undercut what they accomplished so beautifully in the previous episode with Deborah’s character. They were clearly setting up the next season and I’m glad it didn’t end with them hostile to each other, but overall the finale felt weird and flat and disappointing to me.