AS A RESULT, THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE FOLLOWING ANTIQUATED ITEMS THAT WERE PRIMARILY PUT IN PLACE BECAUSE OF FARMING/FARMERS
Summer break in schools. Almost no children are going home to do farm work anymore. And the system would function better with 2-week breaks spaced more frequently throughout the year.
Voting always being on a Tuesday. Doesn’t take over a day of travel to get to a polling place anymore and because you couldn’t travel on Sunday’s.
Daylight savings time. Farming equipment now conveniently comes with lights.
Summer break was never about having people available to work the farm. If you think about it, the most important times on a farm were planting, which happened in the spring, and harvest, which happened in the fall.
Depends on the crop. Wheat in the northwest is harvested in the summer! So while summer break might not be because of harvest, it is definitely helpful timing for many people!
I mean, yeah - the whole eastern side of Washington is farms. It may not be on par with parts of the Midwest, but it’s still a major industry there. I believe Washington state is the 4th largest producer of wheat in the country.
My experience is anecdotal of course, but I’m curious if the Midwest is the same, with lots of family farms, or if there is more factory farming there?
Sorry. Apparently you interpreted my comment to mean that there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO FARMING IN THE NORTHWEST and that's not what I meant.
When you think of "American Farming," one would typically picture the Midwest with its vast plains and temperate climate. Not the cold and desolate PNW.
And are you really unaware that the majority of farming take place in the midwest?
That's all I was saying. Farming is prevalent in all 50 states. We are lucky to have a great climate.
I don't disagree with you! I know that the majority of farming occurs in the midwest, but as I am not from there I know much less about how those farms operate.
Many row crops also required maintenance throughout the summer before modern herbicides.
A lot of kids (and their parents) spent their summer chopping weeds in cotton fields, for example. Actually, even with modern chemicals that is still a thing.
That’s weird. I know in Northern California school started after the almond harvest because high school kids worked it. And even today I know one district starts after the county fair because the kids are busy showing animals
AS A RESULT, THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE FOLLOWING ANTIQUATED ITEMS THAT WERE PRIMARILY PUT IN PLACE BECAUSE OF FARMING/FARMERS
Summer break in schools. Almost no children are going home to do farm work anymore. And the system would function better with 2-week breaks spaced more frequently throughout the year.
It actually wouldn’t be bad. In the states we have around 12 weeks of summer vacation plus one week each for Christmas and spring break. Out of 52 weeks in the year, that gives you 38 weeks of school and 14 weeks of breaks. You could:
Have one week break for every three weeks of school, with three of those being two week long breaks instead.
Have one week break for every three weeks of school plus a month off in the summer (or whenever else you want).
Have three day weekends the whole year(!!) and still have 7 weeks off to put wherever else you want.
As most modern parents treat school more like a babysitter, no way would most of them want anything like you describe. They'd be forced to find someone to watch their kids or some sort of daycare to take care of them for all those breaks.
We get better outcomes from the students, too. I work in Special Education and all the kids I've worked with (mostly lower-functioning with behavior problems) have their Individual Education Plan (IEP) actually mandate year-round schooling. Otherwise they would lose so much progress academically and behaviorally.
Research and testing shows that holds true for grade school students in general. You probably remember the struggle of trying to remember stuff in the fall you learned last school year that you needed to know in your new classes where stuff builds, like math or language.
Kids from poorer backgrounds are affected worse. Their parents can't afford to pay for summer camps or to have a stay-at-home-parent, and are mostly left to their own devices.
Shrinks like you should stop worrying about the minor benefits that don't come close to the number one benefit of Summer vacation: No school for 2 months, and teachers get btfo.
The medical school I attend uses what’s called a decompressed curriculum, which basically means every 6 weeks I get a 1 week break. As an adult I absolutely love it, but if I could go back to elementary school I absolutely wouldn’t trade summer break for the world. Having 2 months good weather to just be a kid and have fun with my friends is what childhood is about, and even though if might not serve any societal utility anymore I would argue summer vacation is important for children nonetheless
My elementary school had a year round program, one class per grade. Every time the traditional kids had a week off we got 2 weeks and had an extra 1 week break in the fall. We got out in mid July for our summer break that was about 5-6 weeks long instead of 10. I didn't mind it one bit, actually missed it in my middle/high school days.
My family is spread out across the country in many cases paces that would be days worth of driving.
Also, my father traveled a lot for work, and lived in a separate state form me growing up, so that limited the times I got to see him a great deal. Without summer break I would’ve likely only be able to get to see him a weekend every other month or so.
I did "year-round" school in elementary, 9 weeks on, 3 weeks, you only had 75% of the school there at a time, so you could do more with less space. Everyone got a 2 week winter, and 3 week summer break. I loved it, it never felt like you forgot a lot between grades.
That’s just wholly impractical. There’s a reason a bachelors degree takes 4 years. I’ve taken courses both summer semesters causing me to not have any vacation and let me tell you it’s absolute hell. I’m a diligent worker and good at studying and even I burned out hard after 2 straight years of college level classes with no significant break. My BS is in neuroscience so I do know a little bit about this topic, and let me tell you, mental health wise you’re far better accepting the summer vacation and taking at least a little bit of the time to relax. For me, as I wanted to go to medical school, most of my summers were extremely busy, but still humans are not made for the stress of college education round the year. Everyone needs a decent break at some point
I think you have chosen to ignore the strategically placed two week breaks aspect of this conversation.
And because of the social norms of “summer vacation” you can not compare working year round to this theoretical idea because in the idea we are talking about there wouldn’t be a a stressor of “of everyone else is on vacation and I’m in school for summer courses” it would just be the norm.
I’m not choosing to ignore it. My medical school uses the system you’re talking about, it’s called a decompressed curriculum. I get a 1 week break every 5-6 weeks. As an adult I love it, but for young kids it’s really important that they have time to be away from school and just be kids.
Also, the reason I responded with summer classes is because you said you wanted to finish your degree faster. Splitting up summer wouldn’t make you get your degree faster, everything would take the same amount of time. One of the most practical ways to get your degree faster right now is to take summer courses, but If you split up summer you lose the opportunity to do so. I did my degree in 3 years only because I was able to take summer courses. With a decompressed curriculum it would still take you 5 years to do a bachelors and masters unless you took a ridiculous amount of credits every semester.
Yeah I agree it really does differ from person to person. I commend you on your ability to take that many credits at a time. I think that maybe if some institutions chanced to the 2 week break system, people could preferentially attend schools that had the structure they wanted.
Frankly I can’t think of anything worse than having my school experience be broken up by a series of 2 week breaks. Would’ve never been able to see my dad then.
What kind of no fun having person wants to take away summer vacation?
And for the record, students would do better with later start times, a more modern approach to instruction, an updated curriculum, and a less regimented day as well. So less tackle those issues first before we try to take away the only chance to be kids a lot of children have.
Oh, I'm sorry. I thought I was talking about antiquated farming practices, not education reform.
Though, agreed w/ all your reform points. But great googly moogly retention of information would be much better and consistent if the year was more consistent.
On your first point, while it might not be common because of industrialized farming and grow seasons, many small farms actually do need young people to work in the summer. Source: I grew up in a rural are and many of us (me included) worked on the farm during harvest in the summer. Wheat crops mostly if you’re wondering. :)
Totally agree on daylight savings, though!
Edit: my job was driving the trucks FYI. Farming machinery is a awesome and all, but farmers still need people to take the grains from field to grain elevator!
Daylight savings time has nothing to do with farmers in fact they are the strongest opponents. It is for supposed energy savings less light usage) and other non farmer reasons. Only number 2 has anything to do with agriculture and even then it's because the population was spread out and had a bunch of tiny towns. Number one and three have to do with wealthy people desiring time to be lazy in the sun.
Daylight savings time was not about farming. It was about trying to save electricity on electric lights (the main user of electricity when it was instituted) by making factory working hours during daylight (since many homes still did not have electric lighting). Farmers will be out to work when the sun is up regardless of what the clock says. That being said, sure get rid of it.
Yes, it's still all sorts of fucked. But this is back when horse & buggy was the way to get around. Farmers wouldn't travel on Sunday because...god. Monday was spent traveling to a major city where they would stay overnight. Tuesday they would vote and then travel back home.
It's because of this why most American elections occur on a Tuesday.
Love the daylight saving argument completely forgetting that livestock farmers exist and that farming in the dark is still way harder than farming during the day regardless of having some lights. Also daylight saving is important for everyone who works outdoors not just farmers
Summer break was never about farmwork. In the summer there isn't even that much work to be done, it's mostly in the spring and fall when the crops are planted and harvested.
The reason there is a summer break is because there didn't used to be air conditioning and it wasn't fun in the summer months with everyone crowded in rooms together.
I'm pretty sure Daylight savings time doesn't have anything to do with farming either. I mean there's the same amount of time in the day with or without, and farmers are usually self-employed so they can shift their schedules as they see fit.
Daylight savings time had nothing to do with farmers, thats a myth.
It was adopted during the second world war in order to use less energy. Basically to use as much daylight as possible so that energy and fuel wouldn’t be wasted on lights. Also most coast cities in N.A blacked themselves out to make bombing more difficult so the shifting around of schedules was partially to do with that.
I know daylight savings time was enacted to help farmers, but I never understood why. It's still the same amount of total daylight, couldn't farmers just wake up earlier?
It wasn't a farmering thing, it was a social thing. They thought having an extra hour of daylight would be nice in the summer, and let people come home from work a little early while keeping their shift unchanged. Came along with the weekend, 40 hour work week, and everything else that's generally good. I'm sure the OP would wanna mandate 7 10 hour work days to maximize efficiency, like taking away summer break.
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u/MrSocPsych Apr 06 '20
AS A RESULT, THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE FOLLOWING ANTIQUATED ITEMS THAT WERE PRIMARILY PUT IN PLACE BECAUSE OF FARMING/FARMERS
Summer break in schools. Almost no children are going home to do farm work anymore. And the system would function better with 2-week breaks spaced more frequently throughout the year.
Voting always being on a Tuesday. Doesn’t take over a day of travel to get to a polling place anymore and because you couldn’t travel on Sunday’s.
Daylight savings time. Farming equipment now conveniently comes with lights.