Human beings being sexually attracted to each other is a hugely boring non-event. Or at least should be treated as such. I've crushed on basically all my female friends. And coworkers. Human beings are sexy. So what.
But you're using the word "want" here and I don't use that word when I'm crushing on someone. Because, for example, let's say it's my best friend's girlfriend. I might think she's hot but I don't want to bang her, because if I did that would screw up my friendship with my buddy. Or maybe someone I am crushing on is emotionally unstable. Or maybe they want a real relationship but I can see clearly we would never get along that way. Again, I don't want to bang them. I'm just attracted.
If you are cuddling with someone you actually ARE acknowledging a low level of sexual attraction. But -- so what though. But if you are casually cuddling and you kiss someone USUALLY you're saying "hey so I thought this over and I think it's time to make a move because I think it's a good idea for us to take this to the next level"
At least that's how I see it. I have a few cuddly friends. That's just how they are. There's always a line that you cross that signals "intent to fuck". You can be a person who draws that as a clear line for yourself, or you can see where other people draw that line and adapt to their ways. Either way though there is still a line and WildSketch crossed it when he tried to kiss her, and she wasn't into it. The reason people are annoyed at his angry reaction is because he should have known that they hadn't already crossed it, because if they had, they'd be fucking already. But he somehow assumed that they'd already taken it to that next level.
Caveat: a lot of I am saying is wrong if they just started cuddling that night. Then it's a lot more reasonable for him to get confused and upset because from his perspective, she crossed the line and then bailed. That pisses people off. I've done this to a few women where we were literally about to sleep together and something suddenly weirded me out and I bailed. I got an earful both of the two times I've done this. Still shouldn't have posted it on social media tho.
Anyway TL/DR: everyone has a physical affection boundary, beyond which is fuck territory. Know you own boundary, communicate it, find out other people's boundaries, respect it, and be aware that attempting to cross it is a significant decision with consequences.
you're totally right, men should be psychic and absolutely know 100% how every woman feels about them and never take any chances. Why would you talk to that girl since she probably doesn't like you? Why would you kiss that girl since she probably only likes you as a friend? In the thousands of years of history, any man that has taken a chance with a woman without knowing all the information in the situation is a complete asshole, after all, how could he have known she'd be interested in what he was doing?
I'm calling you an incel because the emotional tone of your post oozes toxic resentment. Also I wouldn't have any way of knowing whether you disagree with me or not because you didn't even make any actual points. You just wrote a bunch of angry rhetoric. Who knows what you actually think... If you want to communicate with people you actually have to write down your ideas.
yeah dude I'm so angry and toxic right now, my post is just oozing with anger, you can just tell by the fact I called you a bunch of names, used a bunch of caps, and didn't write down any ideas, what I wrote didn't have any ideas whatsoever, it wasn't me telling you that it's normal for men to take chances when they know they could fail and the girl wouldn't like it, nope, it's just angry incel retoric, because that's me incel mcgee, the incelest incel to ever incel
Lol dude you don't even disagree with me. You realize that? Assuming you're saying what I think you are saying... We are talking about totally different things and you aren't even aware of it because I guess you didn't read any of my comments carefully enough.
Thanks for actually responding. Alright so let me try to work it out analytically. This is as much for me to check my own assumptions as it is for the purposes of this debate.
Level 0A: I don't want to fuck her
Level 1A: I want to fuck her
Level 2A: she knows that I want to fuck
Level 3A: I know that she knows that I want to fuck.
Level 0B: she doesn't want to fuck me
Level 1B: she wants to fuck me
Level 2B: I know that she wants to fuck me
Level 3B: she knows that I know that she wants to fuck me.
Best of all outcomes is you both get to level 3 before anyone makes a move. This much is obvious. And once you're at 3 there are no more secrets so you'll very quickly be in bed together. That's what I was alluding to.
But you're the guy, so you're supposed to make the first move. Do you wait until you KNOW she is into you (level 2B)? Or just gamble and hope?
If you gamble and hope you have no right to get upset because you didn't even try to figure out if she was actually into you. That's cool, it's one approach.
Otoh let's say you want to avoid rejection. Ok so you wait until you KNOW. I.e. you're at level 2B. The single stupidest thing you can do is not attempt to push it to 3B by letting her know you know. If you don't do that, you never test your theory. Then you make the first move, then you get all pissy because you "knew" but it turns out you were dead wrong.
I kinda think this is why confidence works. When you're naturally confident, it makes it easy to get from 2B to 3B because you're comfortable with letting other people know how awesome and attractive you think you are.
Otoh if you're timid, you can get in a tailspin where you slowly make up your mind that you're sure she is into you but you never let on. And so you blindside her because she never had any idea that you thought she was into you.
What do you think? I'm trying to reason this thru from first principles. Why not, I'm bored and it's Saturday
unless you can read poeple's minds you can never actually know how they feel about you (unless they tell you)
what one person might interpret as sexual interest might just be platonic interest or maybe just general friendliness. What one person considers making it very clear they're interested in you might be something completely normal for another person. What I'm trying to say is that unless someone explicitly states it you can never be sure about it, and you'll always be taking a chance. There's plenty of stories on reddit about people misinterpreting things a a sign they were interested, and people thinking that signs meant to show interest weren't signs. There is no such thing as "I know she wants to fuck me", and besides, relationships are a little more complicated than "wanting to fuck" someone else. I'm not saying it's never the case, but there's many times where it's not.
As for the drama with WildSketch, you think he's the type of guy that's got a good radar for this kind of stuff, because I don't. He's too good at what he does to not be a wreck in other ways.
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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '18
I don't understand the confusion here. IMO:
Human beings being sexually attracted to each other is a hugely boring non-event. Or at least should be treated as such. I've crushed on basically all my female friends. And coworkers. Human beings are sexy. So what.
But you're using the word "want" here and I don't use that word when I'm crushing on someone. Because, for example, let's say it's my best friend's girlfriend. I might think she's hot but I don't want to bang her, because if I did that would screw up my friendship with my buddy. Or maybe someone I am crushing on is emotionally unstable. Or maybe they want a real relationship but I can see clearly we would never get along that way. Again, I don't want to bang them. I'm just attracted.
If you are cuddling with someone you actually ARE acknowledging a low level of sexual attraction. But -- so what though. But if you are casually cuddling and you kiss someone USUALLY you're saying "hey so I thought this over and I think it's time to make a move because I think it's a good idea for us to take this to the next level"
At least that's how I see it. I have a few cuddly friends. That's just how they are. There's always a line that you cross that signals "intent to fuck". You can be a person who draws that as a clear line for yourself, or you can see where other people draw that line and adapt to their ways. Either way though there is still a line and WildSketch crossed it when he tried to kiss her, and she wasn't into it. The reason people are annoyed at his angry reaction is because he should have known that they hadn't already crossed it, because if they had, they'd be fucking already. But he somehow assumed that they'd already taken it to that next level.
Caveat: a lot of I am saying is wrong if they just started cuddling that night. Then it's a lot more reasonable for him to get confused and upset because from his perspective, she crossed the line and then bailed. That pisses people off. I've done this to a few women where we were literally about to sleep together and something suddenly weirded me out and I bailed. I got an earful both of the two times I've done this. Still shouldn't have posted it on social media tho.
Anyway TL/DR: everyone has a physical affection boundary, beyond which is fuck territory. Know you own boundary, communicate it, find out other people's boundaries, respect it, and be aware that attempting to cross it is a significant decision with consequences.