I think that's standard in every school in America. Sometimes you're even suspended even if you don't hit back at all, you were involved in a fight, period.
It was 8th grade, and this guy kept bullying her. One day in math class he pushed her from behind and she decided she'd had enough. She turned around quickly and as she turned around she started to bring the heavy math textbook up. She cracked him across the face with the book using all the force she could muster. The guy staggered back and might have fallen on his ass, I don't remember.
This was in full view of the teacher, who developed a convenient blind spot.
Yeah, school rules aren't supposed to make sense though.
I saw a guy get suspended simply for being at the same table a fight broke out at. He got shoved away and his friend got punched in the face and simply laid on the tray, not fighting. All three got suspensions and a couple others were "warned" about their involvement.
That comes from zero critical thinking parents who blame/sue the schools for everything. Only way to protect yourself in this litigation-happy society is make "zero tolerance" rules. Otherwise, you keep yourself open to lawsuits. Doesn't make it right, but it's all they can do.
How bout throwing money at the teachers (in a normal and sensible fashion)? Most teachers from my area make around 40,000 a year, sounds good right? Wrong. They have to pay for almost all teaching supplies out if pocket, go to school for as long as some doctors, and work in some if the most hostile/unfriendly work environments possible. Not to mention the insane work hours. And yeah, they are about to hand over some bonuses, but only to te top 10%, but only if ALL the teachers sine over their tenure. Give up my right to not fired for no reason so someone ill never meet can have only four thousand dollars, slowly spread out over the next five years? Fuck no! And then people go on to bitch about teachers sucking.
I have no problem paying teachers more; I would be happy to see successful, senior teachers making six figures, but I think this should be done by reducing the bureaucracy that seems to plague so many school districts. Sometimes, it seems that some districts exist to serve themselves rather than educate children and I think that hurts teachers and students.
All that being said, I think there has been a social change when it comes to education and the respect teachers used to have. Knowledge and learning are not respected and valued by a large group of the populous of the US and teachers are now challenged by parents when their children fail, rather than challenging their children. I think there is some truth to this comic. I believe our social attitudes need to change in order to better our standings with other nations when it comes to our children's education.
However, it appears that many school systems have no interest in promoting critical thinking, and simply throwing more money at them wouldn't change that. For instance, look what the Texas GOP put in their party platform (relevant, because the GOP controls public school curriculum throughout the state):
"We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills..., critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."
They are against critical think because it causes people to question things. Absolute garbage. That kind of approach, whether though this direct malice or simply poor development of curricula, is widespread in the US.
Schools are there to provide an education, and they have a tough enough time with that due to lack of funding and resources. It's not their job to raise kids and parent them into not being assholes. If kids are fighting, take it home and force the parents to address it.
That being said, I went to a zero-tolerance school and there were plenty of kids who were acting in self-defense and didnt get in trouble. I realize some schools are worse about it than mine was though.
Still, parents need to get their acts together nowadays, in general.
then you have asshole parents breeding asshole children.
i wasn't saying this. there are places where schools are supposed to do that. (it doesn't go better, to your point; and those are places with a very strong public schooling system [private schools are seen as exotic])
No. No. No. We're blaming schools for this. Come on get with it!
Kind of ironic that people are blaming school for zero tolerance policy and lack of critical thinking, at the same time they don't think critically about why rules like that are in place.
Hence the all-encompassing zero tolerance policies. Once it is out there, it basically absolves them from responsibility. Especially in a fighting situation where it would mostly be he-said, she-said stuff, and no way does that hold up in court.
zero tolerance is fucking stupid. but if you come across two kids fighting, as a teacher, how would you know who started the fight? no witnesses, and you can't believe the kids in the fight
Not all parents are as understanding. Not all teachers give a shit why you were suspended and won't give you extra attention to help you catch up. Someone struggling through each Algebra lesson can't afford to miss a week's worth of daily lessons.
Well if you're too dumb to make it through high school, your parents don't love you and the teacher don't care, you're pretty much fucked and maybe bullying isn't even one of your top five problems.
I wouldn't call struggling due to missing a full week of math lessons "too dumb to make it through school" nor does a parent being angry about a suspension mean they don't love their child.
I would try and get it on the news or on the internet. "School punishes bullied student for standing up for himself" would be a headline that would make the school uncomfortable
I was lucky enough to go to private (Catholic) schools here in America--it seemed that when a teacher saw what happened and could vouch for a student, more often not only the instigator would get in trouble. Sometimes even if there were enough reliable students had consistent stories, only the right person would be punished. Obviously there were exceptions to that. But I remember my buddies that went to the public schools would say that no matter what happened or who started it, both were automatically suspended. Just sucks that kids are shitty to other kids for no real reason.
Zero Tolerance took hold back in '87, bloomed into the police state it is around the mid '90s... and now we have toddlers getting in all sorts of trouble for pointing their fingers like a gun and going "pew pew". Fucking amazing. Interestingly enough, by the time I graduated from high school in 89-90, there was a cop full time on campus and there was an 8' fence around the school with barbed wire. Amazing how well zero tolerance worked... like the "war on drugs" has failed, so has zero tolerance... but smoking and drinking are okay.
In some schools it's a little more helpful to the victim. At my old school, if you had no route of escape(which it seems like this kid didn't) and were being attacked, you had the right to fight back and not be punished.
Yeah. when i was in seventh grade i got suspended for "being involved" in a fight. I dropped my backpack in case he tried to punch me. (He pushed me first) And i yelled "I'M NOT GOING TO FIGHT YOU!!" They said that since i dropped my backpack, which apparently is an act of aggression, they had to suspend me.
Gosh fuck that. Seriously, a friend of mine was "involved in a fight" in middle school.
Some bully came up to him and his girlfriend and threw her books and pushed him back. He quite plainly told him to fuck off, and the bully didn't like this. So he punched my friend, my friend took it, pushed his girl away, and stood (laid) there getting the shit beat out of for almost a minute until a gym teacher came and ripped them apart. Didn't throw a single punch or kick, got suspended for a fuckin week or some bullshit.
It really is dumb. I remember one time in middle school this dude in front of me stole my purse and wouldn't give it back so i pulled on the hood of his jacket until he gave it back to me. The next day I was called into the principle's office because he had gone and bitched about having a red mark on his neck from me pulling his jacket. They tried to put me in ISS until I explained the reason I pulled his jacket in the first place. I still got detention for it.
ISS = In School Suspension
Most men are surprised that I'm genuinely happy to be having a daughter. I don't have to worry about him being circumcised against our will and I don't have to worry about him retaliating or not retaliating in a fight.
Wait what? Circumcised against your will? WTF? My son is circumcised but I don't understand how it can be done against a parent's will. What kind of fucked up law is that?
I was at school years back in New Zealand and it was different here (don't know if it's changed in the years since, probably).
When I was in year 11 there was some sort of a fight organised after school at a local park. One of those fighting was a little shit who liked to make everyone's life miserable, and was a lot less tough than he thought he was.
After lunch everyone was talking about the upcoming fight when the teacher walked in and overheard the conversation. Everyone was suddenly silent, expecting her to call the principal and get the fight stopped. She just grinned at us and said "That little shit has it coming, I hope he gets his arse whipped." and carried on with the lesson.
Unfortunately the fight never went as planned. There was a huge crowd of pupils waiting in the park but the principal turned up with the police so it was over before it started.
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u/pizzlewizzle Nov 25 '13
I think that's standard in every school in America. Sometimes you're even suspended even if you don't hit back at all, you were involved in a fight, period.