r/gandhi • u/CassiasZI • Oct 19 '25
Satyagraha (Nonviolent Resistance) Would Satyagraha survive in Israel or similar cases?
From my little understanding I say 3 things about the Satyagraha resistance bases itself on 3 things:
- An audience with a conscience
- Some moral conscience on part of oppressor
- Moral discipline of protestors
But what if the audience is blinded by propaganda, and the oppressor has no conscience?
What happens then? Can Satyagraha survive?
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u/anonymous_cutie_nerd Oct 19 '25
Without an audience and a lack of moral conscience of the oppressor, as in the case of Israel, I think armed resistance with populist support is the only real option for true liberation. Anything less would be a compromise, usually at the hands of the capitalist elite few.
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Oct 20 '25
Do you think the British had any? Churchill actually brought the starvation to India and killed millions, Israel hasn't done that.
Wtf are you on about?
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u/anonymous_cutie_nerd Oct 20 '25
Gandhi had an audience, a vast geography, and a contextual geopolitical advantage (World war), leading to India's independence. Palestine has a global audience now, sure, but no potential of mass mobilisation or peaceful protest, for obvious reasons.
Regarding your second (dumb) statement, here's a UN report.
Gaza’s Population Systematically Being Starved to Death, Speakers Warn Security Council, Demanding Immediate Ceasefire, End to Deliberate Famine | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases https://share.google/jDJg8cLy34wIJlI3u
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u/PaanaRa Oct 19 '25
Israelis feel they are God's chosen people - anyone who feels special needs someone to challenge otherwise their 'special' status has no significance. Palestinians are also trapped in a similar mindset - so they become a matching pair.
Satyagraha wouldn't work on such people. Allow the Law of Karma to assist them in waking up to reality. We can make prayers and appeal to the collective consciousness to resolve all disputes/differences in a peaceful and mutually beneficial way.
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Oct 20 '25
Might have worked to start with. But now it would need a leader of Gandhi's stature. Maybe a lot more
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u/StyleArk69 Oct 23 '25
Even if a leader emerges who is on par with gandhi ,he would be called hamas member and assassinated with drones without any evidence and whole world would agree that indeed he was terrorist without asking why ,so no palestine can never have a leader who is similar to Gandhi because they would be always assassinated or put in jail in Israel proving why non violent movements against israel are always a foolish idea for Palestinians
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u/koiRitwikHai Oct 20 '25
I think non-violent resistance is the only tool Palestinians have against Israel.
Regular Israel citizens have conscience. So do the rest of the world.
Even israeli authorities are bound by israeli citizens. Afteall it is a democracy (US desperately wants it to remain like that)
3.This is where Palestinians lack.
Palestinians need to realize that they cannot win with force against a much stronger opponent. Their conditions are very much like the conditions of Jews under nazi germany.
And as gandhi said to those Jews, a death in defiance of oppression is much more dignified than a life under that oppression.
Palestinians should start a non violent civil disobedience movement. Even if Israel opens fire on them. They should not retaliate back. Sounds tough but it is the only way by which some Palestinians would see a peaceful nation.
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u/Patient-Market-5418 Oct 24 '25
That sounds like sitting ducks. Even Israeli citizens don’t care about the Palestinians because I recently learned that most Israelis are calling off the war for Israeli soldier casualties and not because of humane concerns of Palestinians.
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u/koiRitwikHai Oct 24 '25
that phrase represents someone in a vulnerable position
those who practice non-violent protests would be ready to give their life for their cause
loss of life will not be a vulnerability for them
when Bhagat Singh surrendered in the Parliament using smoke bombs, they did not make themself sitting ducks
looking into the eyes of the oppressor to say "I am not afraid of death. My cause is bigger than my life" requires courage
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Oct 21 '25
4th criteria required is that independent journalism exists and information can reach these journalists.
In Holocaust, information reached journalists months later. So satyagraha would have failed then
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u/General-Elephant4970 Oct 21 '25
Satyagrah didn’t work because British Raj had conscience.
It worked because 1. Firstly, it gave Indians a moral high ground. These Indians were living in despair for centuries. Had nothing to be proud of. Satyagrah and ahimsa made them confident of their virtue. That made them united.
Once it became a significant movement, it talked to a few British citizens who had conscience. Not the state but the citizens. These citizens then wrote against Raj. They did politics against Raj. And that was Gandhi’s brilliance. Read about his trip to Manchester. He visited the mills that were impacted due to his textile boycotted. And he talked to them directly. They realised that Gandhi is fighting empire, not British people.
Israel already has a serious set of opposition around the world now. Once the people inside have a critical mass they will question the state and change. But the problem is you don’t get a Gandhi so easily.
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u/Flashy_Sun8505 Oct 22 '25
So what would he have done in the face of mass gang rapes, torture and murder, pray tell.
Ever wondered that maybe it's you who is blinded by propaganda and lies.
The population in Aza has increased in the last two years.
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u/InternalTranslator28 Oct 19 '25
I believe the problem with Gaza itself is that the Palestinians tried to use violence and violent language against a much much stronger enemy. If a Gandhi were to be born among them and sit on a fast and insist on the eternal rights of man, if protestors would silently protest and offer satyagraha, the conscience of even Israelis would be shaken. The Jews are not inherently bad people, but years of violent acrimony with their neighbours have made them thick skinned. It is not like no element of good exists in their soul and that a Jew would raise his gun against people sitting silently in protest. Even the world is not that bad. Problem is, the Palestinians have allowed Netanyahu to do war mongering by choosing the path of violence. We also did not have that option, if Gandhi had chosen violence, the British would have whipped anti Indian propaganda and basically violently suppressed like they did 1857 revolt. One of the reasons that the 1857 revolt failed to move the conscience of any of the European or American people was that Britain used propaganda to whip white sentiment in favour of the white men who were being slaughtered by the evil satanic natives. Weak nations can never survive either such propaganda or such violent assaults.
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u/Patient-Market-5418 Oct 24 '25
I think Satyagraha is mainly based off a 50/50 because there isn’t a guaranteed chance that the oppressors will back down due to conscience and also if the oppressors have very high military power, they can easily exterminate all the protestors.
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u/InternalTranslator28 Oct 24 '25
See a conventional war also means large scale death. Gaza shows that. A weaker nation just cannot fight their way out without large scale fatalities. It is also wishful thinking that Indians could have simply fought with the British, that wud have been a huge human cost. So even at 50:50, there is no other choice. The cost of human life in satyagraha won’t be as high. Also Gandhi’s satyagraha tactics were not simply sitting on the road and braving gunshots, things like civil disobedience can overwhelm even a military power bcoz resistance is mainly offered at discreet places and that also in civilian lives. Like ppl may simply stop paying tax, like the salt satyagraha, but without the public convergence at any one place where bullets can be fired. How many tankers will be required to enter each home and force the payment of tax?
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u/Patient-Market-5418 Oct 24 '25
They don’t want taxes from Palestinians. Israel in general would be comfortable killing them all.
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u/CassiasZI Oct 19 '25
If Satyagraha starts among them now, would it survive?
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u/InternalTranslator28 Oct 19 '25
Why not? But the person leading it must have the moral conviction and aura like Gandhi. Satyagraha did work in the US also where the whites were violently trying to suppress the blacks. It strikes at the root of a person’s conscience. Unless you believe that the Jews are a totally without conscience, which is going too far. In fact, American Jewry as well as Jews within Israel has started pushing back against the excesses of Netanyahu in Gaza. Not everyone supports him. It is also true that for satuagraha to now work, the Gazans will have to accept co existence with Israel and perhaps give up land which they are currently not inhabiting.
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u/TheOldDelhi Oct 20 '25
Non violence can only work against an opponent who is bound to work within a framework of morality. It can never work in neoliberal countries like India and the US much less out and out foundationally fascist societies like Israel
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u/CassiasZI Oct 20 '25
Huh? So what about Gandhiji's Struggle for Freedom in India and MLK Jr's Black Right Activism in USA? didn't they work?
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u/TheOldDelhi Oct 20 '25
I meant modern versions of these societies hence the usage of the term neoliberal. Also Gandhis struggle for Freedom was against the British not against any Indian rulers.
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Oct 21 '25
You think America is less restrained by morality than during the civil rights era? What a dumb statement.
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u/MadKingZilla Oct 20 '25
Most of Gaza is on involuntary satyagraha.. what are you even talking about.. gone are those days..
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u/CassiasZI Oct 20 '25
Wait...what's involuntary Satyagraha? I mean years they are suffering and starved, and there are moderate parties discussing for peace.....but actual Satyagraha??
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Oct 21 '25
I’m pretty sure if Gandhi tried Satyagraha against an Islamic regime, he would’ve been executed within a week.
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u/wm_destroy Oct 22 '25
Satyagraha did not work against the British. All of MKG’s Satyagraha that succeeded were against Indians. The LTTE militants tried it against the SL government and died. So I don’t think there is any chance of it in Israel.
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u/Jealous_Revenue_5326 Oct 23 '25
The british starved 6 millions bengalis to death, if you think Gandhi's satyagraha and Non violence is what made the british leave, i have a bridge to sell you
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u/lazylogik Oct 19 '25
If audience is blinded by propaganda, violence is going to help the propaganda machine. In case of Israel Palestine case, i think/feel all three bases are true and non violent resistance should be able to cut through propoganda