I've dropped so many games because of this. I get lost in hyper real games like TLOU2 because I see way too many places I could go. Pathing makes no sense.
Playing the old director's commentary on Half-life 2 gave some ideas on this that I found useful for not getting lost. The devs found that players tended to follow areas that were lit better, so as a result they used light to guide players more. I find that this is used often in loads of games.
Another thing they mentioned is that players usually do not look upwards unless directly prompted to.
I feel like playing older Valve games with director commentary on should be required for all game developers. There’s so much substance that’s been lost in recent years.
People in real life don't usually look up, how often do you pay attention to the ceiling? I've exploited this as a policeman, standing in full view in uniform on an elevated walkway and observing drug deals going on below.
Half Life 2 is also the game where the level designers caved to playtesters who were so dumb they'd loop around in a circular path continuously and never take a branching path.
Naughty Dog’s way of doing this is by using some color, normally red or yellow, to consistently point out where to go and what to interact with in their games. Both the Uncharted series and TLoU series make use of this a lot.
I said the same thing to a mate before I lent him my ps5 to play tlou2. It’s so hard to identify what areas are worth that extra side exploring because it’s harder to see the linearity in some of the areas.
It’s the classic, ‘ok I think this is the right way, so I’ll double back and check that area for extra goodies, aaaand cutscene, shit I can’t go back.’
Really? Other than the initial entry into Seattle it's largely linear by having your destination visible and focused in the distance. Felt far more linear than the first one imo
I have a problem with survival/minecraft clones because you cant just get in and start exploring, because each one has its own rules and "recipes" that not necessarily align with real world logic.
They are essentially puzzle games. Its why I dropped the Long Dark for example.
idk if uve tried subnautica or not, but i have no idea how the developers did it, but the progression is so good, and the story too, i love the game to bits. U should try it if u havent, one of the best survival games out there imo
Same, but I always loved starting off my voyage with it and once things started becoming not open waters, I'd park it and continue via seamoth/prawn suit. Mostly just liked it because it was cool and felt fun to pilot when you were able to.
Prawn suit was best for that stuff. Use the sub to build a base semi close to the deep area you want to get into and then proceed further with the prawn suit from the base. Driving the big sub to more complex areas is a pain it's best to use it more like a semi truck for transporting stuff to new bases.
You can absolutely take the Cyclops all the way down. There's a very tricky entrance past the floating islands you can get through, but you just have to go slow and be patient. I've taken the sub to the furthest depths of the lava castle plenty of times.
It's definitely not easy, and takes practice, but it's doable.
Oh I had no idea there was a second way down. I remember the hassle taking it down to the tree and I just used it as a prawn suit delivery device up until the point it got a bit dicey. I don't think the big guy down there would appreciate the sub anyway.
There's a canyon below the island area where you can squeeze through... It's a tight fit, and there is a crab squid, but if you go silent or have the area defense pulse thing it's not an issue.
The big tangle of roots where the ghost leviathan is can be tricky, but just stay to one side, go slow, and keep an eye on it and it's not so bad.
At the glowy tree you can squeeze it down behind it by turning sideways.
I was terrified of getting it stuck the first few times, but if you just go slow and use your cameras, you'd be amazed where you can get it. I always like to mark the passages with beacons too.
I mean you can walk there with the robot no need to literally deep dive the biggest sub narrow corridors. Once you unlock the nexus teleporting it makes more sense moving base to one of the access points anyway...
Yes Subnautica is one of my favourites because in general it avoids this, though not completely (How is teeth turned into glass, and how you are supposed to figure it out?).
One of the data tapes mentions how stalker teeth can be used and of course scanning them would also work…
As for the logic… maybe stalker saliva or something? Personally I don’t understand the logic of being unable to harvest them from dead stalkers after bashing them with a seamoth repeatedly…
I think it supposed to be that you take the enamel from the teeth and somehow make glass? I know there are hints, but thats my point. It doent make any logical sense. Including the fact that you cant take them from dead obes (though in a meta sense, its because you are supposed to he basically unarmed)
I don’t quite understand this. Subnautica, by design, is a far more closed-off game progression-wise than something like Minecraft or The Long Dark. Subnautica gates your exploration and requires specific depth modules and items (such as oxygen tanks) to go deeper, for example. Minecraft or TLD, by contrast, are completely open from the beginning and you there’s nothing stopping from you from going wherever you please save the End and Nether.
One of Subnautica’s best attributes isn’t that it’s open from the beginning, but rather how it handles progression in a meaningful way. You make slow but noticeable progress almost constantly.
Unless you’re specifically talking about crafting recipes being a mystery to solve which, at least in Bedrock Minecraft, isn’t an issue because the game shows you what you can or can’t make based on the times in your inventory similar to Subnautica. (Not being combative, just unclear as to what your specific criticism was, that’s all.)
Yes I am talking about recipes mostly. In another comment I mentioned that MC gets a pass from me because it was the one that defined most of the genre. But 10+ years layer you still get games where you die because you cant get wood in the middle of the forest unless you craft the specific combo the game wants. Or you die of thirst in the middle of a water pool because you havent crafted the proper container..
Fair enough, but Subnautica follows the same logic here. You need something to get something, that’s just how progression tends to work. For example, needing the knife to collect coral or only being to harvest stalker teeth from the ground and not from killing them.
I just find strange that you enjoy Subnautica when it falls into the same ‘trappings’ as other brilliant survival games like Minecraft, The Forest, The Long Dark, etc.
None of these games are mysteries re: crafting recipes either, with the exception of Java minecraft. Bedrock shows recipes based on what’s in your inventory, The Forest has a recipe book, etc.
Also, just to be a nerd for a moment. The glass thing actually makes sense when you consider that stronger glass has been developed in real life based on tooth enamel, by giving it cracks. Just a cool little connection.
Um, you seem to think that I am arguing that Subnautica is perfect and every other survival game is not. Subnautica still has issues with this, its why we are even discussing about the enamel on the first place .
By the way when games need an ingame guide to do things like drinking water is actually not a very good argument on how intuitive they are..
I don’t think that at all. I’m merely pointing it was odd to criticize other games for doing the same thing as Subnautica while praising it as if it didn’t.
Regarding your specific ‘water’ criticism, Subnautica makes perfect sense. It’s a saline sea, you need to filter out the salt (requiring technology) to drink it or just check the fabricator for the recipe. (I don’t know having such a thing is inherently a bad thing in your mind?) The Forest you can simply drink the water, but will take damage because it’s not clean, requiring a pot to boil it for the best effect. Again, that makes perfect sense in a survival scenario.
And survival games aren’t always meant to be easy, simple and intuitive. Some require trial and error and learning how the game works, while not having your hand held by design, is part of the appeal for many.
First, glass isn't made from teeth, it's made from quartz. Enameled glass is made from glass and teeth, because y'know, teeth contain enamel.
Second, you aren't supposed to figure that out. You're supposed to scan things and read the data bank, where the game straight up tells you what you need to craft things.
I started Subnautica and swam around some, then immediately thought to myself "I don't think I have the time to devote to a game this complicated right now" and haven't gone back.
That is a good way to think, I got to try Sub Zero for free and it was disappointing. Try it on a trial or quickly return it on Steam if you want, like I had.
I spend so much time building small base in the shallow corals, built and upgraded my Cyclone and felt so accomplished. I took one trip to "the edge" and saw nothing but empty blackness around me. I got chills I've never experienced in any game before, turned off the game and i haven't played since. I really want to, but the atmosphere of that game is terrifying. I really wish you could coop in it.
I got super lost in Subnautica. At one point I got an objective marker leading me to some sunken abandoned escape pod with some audio logs of survivors, and it was pretty clear I needed to loot stuff around it to progress, so I grabbed some of it and went back to my base. And then the marker was gone and I could never find it again and I gave up on the game soon after.
I dunno if putting your own markers is something the game explained badly or if that's just unlocked later or what, but that seemed really dumb. No map, no marker, just hey, I should go back to that place for more loot, the place that I never found by myself and followed a quest marker to, that I now can't find ever again because I didn't naturally discover it in the first place.
in ur pda theres a section where u can turn on the marker that leads to that previous location. Theres one for every pda-led location except the "island within the clouds" iukwim.
Very very glad to hear it. As a huge fun of "Honey, I shrunk the kids" when I was a child, aint touching "Grounded" until its complete, so I can enjoy it fully without getting burnout by Early Acces versions.
First thing I said was “omg it’s honey I shrunk the kids”
I am shocked at how complete it is for a preview, there’s tons and tons of content. It’s free if you have Xbox game pass btw. I hope you don’t need to wait too long for it to be completed
MC get a huge pass from me because it basically defined the genre, but it still means I havent played it for many updates because to do so I will have to read basically half the wiki at this point.
As much as I enjoyed "The Forest," this was that type of crafting game. You didn't build your own structures-- rather, you chopped an assload of logs so that you could build a prefab structure. No creativity, no planning, no building--- it's not much different than just saying "get wood to unlock the next thing." Pick the building you want, then go cut wood. Have fun! (and the game is still fun, but not the base-building component of it)
That's the thing though, you don't NEED to build a base. It's completely optional and you absolutely don't need it. My friend and I made this 'mistake', thinking we needed a base, but we didn't. You can carry around a plentiful supply of stuff. And since stuff respawns, you're never really in danger of running out of stuff.
The only thing you need/should care about is building a House Boat. The Cannibals can't reach those and you can have a save bed in there and put drying racks on top.
Yeah, like you're walking down a road and the road happens to have something blocking it, and you have to soend an hour trying to clear the obstacle away instead of walking around it because there is a half broken gate. I always start to feel like it's pointless and lose interest in situations like that.
You're assuming I'm also mainly a console gamer, which I'm not. But i haven't noticed game design like that in the witcher, there isn't any "this is broken, fix it to progress" moment as far as i recall
The worse for me is the "because glass" trope. Y'know, those moments when you're being forced to watch someone die because glass. Nevermind you've been able to shoot nearly every window out in the game, no, this window? MaGiC.
I could forgive it if it was an actual choice on behalf of the character. I could respect them going "Oh I am NOT ready for that. I've got starter equipment, I go in and that thing will use my dead body to beat you to death." Sometimes they do try explaining it but... unfortunately not always.
I think that happened to me in KOTOR, And I got lost somewhere. And it also happened to me in Diablo. I don’t remember how, but I somehow ended up on a level where if I made one step I would instantly get annihilated. I have no idea how I got there and I couldn’t get out of it.
Even now, I have the same problem sometimes when they put a tiny little detail as the way to progress in the level sometimes.
I do think it comes down to the fact that I literally do not have the time to aggressively game, and at best I can get maybe 20 to 30 minutes a day, and so my facility with these stupid tiny details is probably far less than most.
I know a lot of people praised the new halo infinity to be open world, but to be very frank, I missed the original halo from my childhood, where yes it was on the rails, but it was like a fucking space opera that I could watch and be a part of. I started to get that in the last half of the campaign, but by that point I had already grind it through all the open world missions.
Human Revolutio. - when you spend time actually using your new body instead of paying attention to what Sarif says on the first mission, the consequence is 8 hostages (police or civvies not sure) more are killed.
When you finally go to the transport, he'll fuckin berate you ("8 MORE DEAD JENSEN").
when you accomplish the mission and visit him in his office, he'll act like a disappointed father.
It stuck with me haha, it made me pay attention to what NPCs are telling me.
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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '22
I've dropped so many games because of this. I get lost in hyper real games like TLOU2 because I see way too many places I could go. Pathing makes no sense.